Deck planking plans

[KingDavid]

Hello all

I am currently building the victory (Amati) Lady Nelson kit, which is a lovely kit indeed ( i will upload soon a building log & photos to share)

right now i encountered a problem with the deck planking, because sadly there is no such thing in Lady Nelson instructions. 

So i need your help at this point, if someone here has a plan to share of how to lay the deck planking of this particular model

BTW i tried to read the manual of Ulises Victoria but still didn't really figure out what to do!

David

[allanyed]

David,

Planking for the upper decks and quarter decks for all vessel sizes shown in The Ship Builder's Repository 1788 and Steel's Elements of Naval Architecture show planking thickness of 3" with one exception for a small sloop with 2 1/2" thick planks on the QD.  Based on the photo of the model of Lady Nelson 1799 at the RMG (below) with a single deck from bow to stern, and a length of a little over 50 feet, I suspect there could be as few as 2 pieces or perhaps 3 per strake.  With three it will be easier to have the butts in a 3 or 4 plank shift and still have lengths that would be reasonable in full size work.   Of course breaks would occur at the hatches and other openings for masts &c.  Considering the time frame, there is likely a waterway and may have at least the forward ends of the strakes of the flat  joggled into the waterway.  If there is a water way, the outboard edge would be an inch thicker than the inboard edge.   Width of the water way should be in the neighborhood of 10" or 11" and the strakes of the  flat should be about 8 or 9 inches wide.   Hope this is at least a little help to you.  There are likely others here with more knowledge on this type of craft.

Allan

[Gregory]

There are several build logs for Lady Nelson.

 

Here is one example with a link to the deck Planking..  Lady Nelson by vossiewulf

 

Some people choose not to go with as much detail as in that log,  and just go with straight planks dressed out with the waterway, and not the margin planks.

Most kits do not include details like margin planks in the plans.

[druxey]

Also notice that on the model shown above, the planking is not parallel throughout, but tapers fore and aft outside of the central deck furniture. This was usual until the use of power sawmills in the early to mid 1800's. 'Joggling' into the waterway was also a 19th century development. Before that, planks were 'hooked' into each other at their ends instead. However, most models simplify planking patterns.

Edited August 5, 2019 by druxey

[Jim Rogers]

Go to ‘More’ above in the banner, press Articles Data Base, Press Planking and  viola Butt Shift Plan and decking calculator.

[Gregory]

16 minutes ago, Jim Rogers said:

Go to ‘More’ above in the banner, press Articles Data Base, Press Planking and  viola Butt Shift Plan and decking calculator.

I believe KingDavid mentioned that in the OP.

 

Quote

BTW i tried to read the manual of Ulises Victoria but still didn't really figure out what to do!

 

[KingDavid]

Thank you so much for your fast and detailed answers ..more than anything, i think a real deck plan for such a detailed model could have been nice,

 

so i appreciate your different views, i believe it will help somehow to solve this issue in order to move forward!

 

BTW just learned a new word 'joggling' :-)

 

David

 

 

 

 

[KingDavid]

Hello Allan i read again your reply!

 

So, i read it again...

 

And I guess that the measurement that you indicated for the planking is in Inches, do you know how much would it be in centimeters?

 

Thanks, David

 

[Gregory]

Here is a quick converter for you..

 

mm to Inches

[allanyed]

David,

I am sure you realize the dimensions I gave are actual size, not scaled.   Not knowing the scale of your model, I don't know the sizes that you would actually be using.  Gregory gave you a conversion set to use for , but first you need to convert 10" (for example)  to the scale you are using.  If 1:48, it would be 10/48 = 0.208".    0.208 inches X 25.4mm/inch=5.28mm wide planks.  Planks from 5 to about 6mm would be pretty much to scale for a 1"48 scale model.  NOTE:  I misspoke earlier.  The water way would likely be about 11" to 12" wide.  The planks of the flat would be closer to 9" or perhaps 10" wide.   

Allan

[KingDavid]

Hello Allan, 

 

I actually thought at first that you meant the scaled dimensions... silly me. however thank you for your corrections! since the model that i am talking about  is 1:64,

i did manage to do the calculation that you recommended me to do, so 10/64 , 0.15 X 2.54 mm =0.4 cm or 4 mm for the width and more importantly since i have to deal with the cards i was given i.e (Amati's deck planks) the length was more important,, the over all length of the keel is 26.5 cm. so i divided it 26.5/3

gave me 8 cm approx for each beam...

 

Thanks y'all 

will publish my log soon...

[Chuck Seiler]

I tried to find the Butt Shift Plan and decking calculator discussed in post #5, but was unable to.    Were many of the articles removed or am I looking in the wrong place?

 

[allanyed]

I can't find it either.   BUTT, there is a lot of information various butt shifts in many ship modeling books.    Are you looking to do a three butt shift or four?  

Allan

[Chuck Seiler]

Allan,

 

    In the past I have used a 5 plank shift on hull and deck as indicated below, but looking at some logs I am now questioning that strategy.

[mtaylor]

Have look here at this discussoin.   

 

[Chuck Seiler]

Mark,

 

    Many thanks.  Per Ulises' paper, sequential (1-2-3-4-1-2-3-4) and staggered (1-3-5-2-4-1-3-5-2-4) appear equally acceptable.

[mtaylor]

3 hours ago, Chuck Seiler said:

Mark,

 

    Many thanks.  Per Ulises' paper, sequential (1-2-3-4-1-2-3-4) and staggered (1-3-5-2-4-1-3-5-2-4) appear equally acceptable.

That's good.  I was looking for a discussion and couldn't find the one I wanted that showed the various deck planking methods..  

[Chuck Seiler]

Ulises Victoria's paper on deck planking was a link in one of the posts. 👍

[Dlowder]

Excuse me if this has been answered elsewhere but do the locations of half beams make a difference in the shift pattern? It seems like they would since they leave a big gap in the fastening surface available. If so, can anyone point me to an example to look at?

I can't find any specific mention yet in any of my sources. McKay's layout of the middle deck of HMS Victory show butts evenly spaced from the entry port across to the main mast even though there should be a half beam there. Is it just that he, and others, are just simplifying it? Artistic license so to speak?

I have found photos on the web of Victory's elm tree pump on the upper deck showing a butt right next to the pump even though there shouldn't be a full beam there.

Many thanks.

David

[allanyed]

52 minutes ago, Dlowder said:

do the locations of half beams make a difference in the shift pattern

Hi Dlowder  Are you referring to the curved beams at the area of the masts that are fayed to the full cross beam adjacent to it?  Other than that I cannot think of anything that is a half beam.   See contemporary example of Dorsetshire below and please let me know if you are referring to something else. There are many more on the RMG site including Victory upper deck that are similar   https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/rmgc-object-79917

Thanks!

Allan

[Dlowder]

Oops. I forgot I had a copy of Rees's naval architecture and in the included plans I found this showing the butts of the deck planks. I would still like to find any other information though if anyone has anything.

[Dlowder]

Yes Allan. In the image above from Rees's they are labeled as a beam arm. I'm wondering if there is guidance on placing the deck planks in relation to those. 

[druxey]

Also note the top and butt strakes in the way of the guns. These have a different butt pattern!

[Gregory]

Interesting that the plans above show a sort of " anchor stock " shape in some of the planks. ..  I have never seen that in deck planking before..

[allanyed]

Hi Gregory,

In addition, the top and butt planking was sometimes oak whereas the balance of planking was sometimes a different species.  This was not uncommon as it is stronger than straight strakes.  As you point out I would not be surprised if anchor stock patterns were sometimes used in place of top and butt as well.  I believe this is described in some detail in Goodwin's The Construction and Fitting of the English Man of War, but I have no access to my copy for a few days, (maybe longer if hurricane Ian hits us before we get back home 😢)   Perhaps another member with a copy of Goodwin's book or other reliable source can shed more light on this.   

Allan

[Dlowder]

Hi Allan,

You are correct that Goodwin covers this. He says some builders used two strakes of top and butt or anchor stock four feet from each side of the ship on the gun decks. He says it was probably started towards the end of the eighteenth century. 
David