Nina by Emmet - FINISHED - Amati -1/64 - first wooden ship

[Emmet]

With the help of Lazy Saint I chose this Model for its 1:64 scale.

I see other members include the drawings so I am following suit.  I think  too big though. I will have to scale them down next time.

 

 

I have never done any work with the Exacta tools so I was being very careful. 

 

I carefully numbered and compared the pieces to the actual drawing.

I then put everything together dry. I plan to hand buff each piece on the ends to get any "burrs" out.  and then I will glue them. I have read a lot about glues on this site now it is my turn. I have worked a lot with wood but not on a small scale so I have use only Elmer's Carpenter glue.  On rare occasions I have used white glue for fear of having to take the object apart. I am planning to go to Florida soon so I am not sure when I will be back.  I know this is a simple boat to build but I had to start somewhere. Like all of the members I will accept any and all input from anyone.

Happy New Year

I am wrong in the above and at a suggestion I am replacing these as help to someone who might think the same way I was.

[ccoyle]

The lateen-rigged caravel is a good-looking vessel -- my personal favorite from among Columbus's flotilla. Amati are a very reputable kit manufacturer, and your luthier's skills should be capable of turning this into a fine finished product.

 

Cheers!

[Emmet]

14 minutes ago, ccoyle said:

The lateen-rigged caravel is a good-looking vessel -- my personal favorite from among Columbus's flotilla. Amati are a very reputable kit manufacturer, and your luthier's skills should be capable of turning this into a fine finished product.

 

Cheers!

Thanks

I am concerned about the placement of the upper deck. Do you think it is correct to cut out slots so that it fits down on the frames?

[ccoyle]

In most kits with false decks, like yours, the slots are already cut out, and the bulwark extensions are removed after planking the hull. I'm not familiar with the design of this kit, so I can't say why your false deck doesn't have such slots. Hopefully someone else can answer for you.

[vossy]

4 hours ago, Emmet said:

Thanks

I am concerned about the placement of the upper deck. Do you think it is correct to cut out slots so that it fits down on the frames?

Hey Emmet, a lot, if not all, false decks on pretty much all kits require some gentle massaging to make them fit. I am currently just beginning the 

Mantua 1:50 Santa Maria, and I can already see a heap of sanding/cutting/cursing/praying will be required to fit the false main deck and align the

preformed upper bulwarks. It is normal. So glad to see someone doing another of my hero's ships!

 

Cheers

 

Chris

 

[Emmet]

15 hours ago, ccoyle said:

In most kits with false decks, like yours, the slots are already cut out, and the bulwark extensions are removed after planking the hull. I'm not familiar with the design of this kit, so I can't say why your false deck doesn't have such slots. Hopefully someone else can answer for you.

Thanks 

It seems in this case Amati wants you to cut the slots. I have seen it done otherwise but it seems to me it makes sense to cut out the slots.

[Emmet]

14 hours ago, vossy said:

Hey Emmet, a lot, if not all, false decks on pretty much all kits require some gentle massaging to make them fit. I am currently just beginning the 

Mantua 1:50 Santa Maria, and I can already see a heap of sanding/cutting/cursing/praying will be required to fit the false main deck and align the

preformed upper bulwarks. It is normal. So glad to see someone doing another of my hero's ships!

 

Cheers

 

Chris

 

I should add I was looking for your Santa Maria post and did not see your name. I saw a couple of Mantua builds.

[BETAQDAVE]

   You can go to the Quick-Find Indexes to BUILD LOGS FOR KITS   in the wooden kits section and scroll down to La Nina by Igorsr Amati/Victory.  There you can follow his build of your kit.  According to his log the hull is planked first.  Then the bulwark extensions are cut off before the false deck is installed.  So cutting notches for the extensions is not necessary.

[Emmet]

2 hours ago, BETAQDAVE said:

   You can go to the Quick-Find Indexes to BUILD LOGS FOR KITS   in the wooden kits section and scroll down to La Nina by Igorsr Amati/Victory.  There you can follow his build of your kit.  According to his log the hull is planked first.  Then the bulwark extensions are cut off before the false deck is installed.  So cutting notches for the extensions is not necessary.

There you go.  I have been trying to understand the entire project  and by reaching out abut something that was bugging me I got an answer that I was just coming on to talk about.  What I thought were bulwark posts are supposed to be cut out later as suggested by Igorsu.  I was looking at the drawing and did not realize at the time that I was looking at poppets which are put in on top of a stringer which goes on top of the hull deck.  Interestingly enough Amati instructions say to do the quarter deck first.  I will take your suggestion and go look at your log. Actually I had looked at it but I was at an early stage in planning.  I still need to spend more time studying the instructions ans at the same time looking at the La Nina log.

Thanks for your input.

I am going  to edit out those pics which did stimulate some input.
 

[ccoyle]

3 minutes ago, Emmet said:

I am going  to edit out those pics which did stimulate some input.

Go ahead and leave them so that others who might run into the same situation will be able to follow the discussion.

[Emmet]

On 1/3/2020 at 3:03 PM, ccoyle said:

Go ahead and leave them so that others who might run into the same situation will be able to follow the discussion.

OK I will put them back in. I was afraid of confusing someone.

Edited January 9, 2020 by Emmet

[Emmet]

On 1/1/2020 at 3:58 PM, Emmet said:

With the help of Lazy Saint I chose this Model for its 1:64 scale.

I see other members include the drawings so I am following suit.  I think  too big though. I will have to scale them down next time.

 

 

I have never done any work with the Exacta tools so I was being very careful. 

 

I carefully numbered and compared the pieces to the actual drawing.

I then put everything together dry. I plan to hand buff each piece on the ends to get any "burrs" out.  and then I will glue them. I have read a lot about glues on this site now it is my turn. I have worked a lot with wood but not on a small scale so I have use only Elmer's Carpenter glue.  On rare occasions I have used white glue for fear of having to take the object apart. I am planning to go to Florida soon so I am not sure when I will be back.  I know this is a simple boat to build but I had to start somewhere. Like all of the members I will accept any and all input from anyone.

Happy New Year

I am wrong in the above and at a suggestion I am replacing these as help to someone who might think the same way I was.

What I am calling bulwark posts are really frame tips that will be removed later in the build.

Edited January 9, 2020 by Emmet

[vossy]

4 hours ago, Emmet said:

I should add I was looking for your Santa Maria post and did not see your name. I saw a couple of Mantua builds.

Hey, I haven't started a build log of her yet. I am only just beginning her really. Just got false bulkheads on frame etc. 

My ongoing build, (which I must say, I haven't updated for a while) is the Sergal Mississippi Riverboat. I have a log of

this build on here.

 

Cheers

 

Chris

 

[Emmet]

 

Well here I am back again after a variety of miscues and disaster recoveries.  I have learned a lot from the various sites here but the biggest thing is the  interpretation of the instructions.  So far I think the kit is fine.  I did review everything from start to finish but the very first instruction refers to a non-existent table. But I think it is still me and my lack of experience. At any rate after gluing some parts and then taking them apart again with hot water I hope I am going to get wise to this process.

While I was supposed to plank the stern first, my mistake had me gluing the stern beam on again so I moved on to planking the quarterdeck. I did it in 3 stages mainly because the glue would dry ahead of me.  But also because I could not cut the side pieces until the center area was glued. I used carpenters glue.  When dry I cut the excess with sharp wire snips. Added a little sanding.

I have tried to fix this page with respect to so many repeat pics but the harder I try the worse it gets. I notice it happens to others so I will accept it. 

 

 

On 1/3/2020 at 4:31 PM, vossy said:

Hey, I haven't started a build log of her yet. I am only just beginning her really. Just got false bulkheads on frame etc. 

My ongoing build, (which I must say, I haven't updated for a while) is the Sergal Mississippi Riverboat. I have a log of

this build on here.

 

Cheers

 

Chris

 

So your handle is vossy.  I just took a look at the build on the Riverboat. Make sure you read my mistake about the "bulwark posts" which are really frame tips to be removed later in build.

Edited January 9, 2020 by Emmet
adding media

[Emmet]

Well here I am back again after a variety of miscues and disaster recoveries.  I have learned a lot from the various sites here but the biggest thing is the  interpretation of the instructions.  So far I think the kit is fine.  I did review everything from start to finish but the very first instruction refers to a non-existent table. But I think it is still me and my lack of experience. At any rate after gluing some parts and then taking them apart again with hot water I hope I am going to get wise to this process.

While I was supposed to plank the stern first, my mistake had me gluing the stern beam on again so I moved on to planking the quarterdeck. I did it in 3 stages mainly because the glue would dry ahead of me.  But also because I could not cut the side pieces until the center area was glued. I used carpenters glue.  When dry I cut the excess with sharp wire snips. Added a little 

I have tried to fix this page with respect to so many repeat pics but the harder I try the worse it gets. I notice it happens to others so I will accept it

I tried to put this in above but it did not come out correctly.

Edited January 6, 2020 by Emmet
Trying to add media but it keeps gong in the wrong location

[Emmet]

On 1/6/2020 at 7:08 AM, Emmet said:

Well here I am back again after a variety of miscues and disaster recoveries.  I have learned a lot from the various sites here but the biggest thing is the  interpretation of the instructions.  So far I think the kit is fine.  I did review everything from start to finish but the very first instruction refers to a non-existent table. But I think it is still me and my lack of experience. At any rate after gluing some parts and then taking them apart again with hot water I hope I am going to get wise to this process.

While I was supposed to plank the stern first, my mistake had me gluing the stern beam on again so I moved on to planking the quarterdeck. I did it in 3 stages mainly because the glue would dry ahead of me.  But also because I could not cut the side pieces until the center area was glued. I used carpenters glue.  When dry I cut the excess with sharp wire snips. Added a little 

I have tried to fix this page with respect to so many repeat pics but the harder I try the worse it gets. I notice it happens to others so I will accept it

I tried to put this in above but it did not come out correctly.t

This is Emmet. Upon doing some research I found out that the ship is La Pinta. I had ordered Pinta but the box I got said Nina. I thought I would build it anyway.  I was looking at pictures of all 3 ships and it confirms that this is really La Pinta. I have to figure out how to change the title. 

Edited January 9, 2020 by Emmet
Trying to change title

[ccoyle]

1 hour ago, Emmet said:

Upon doing some research I found out that the ship is La Pinta. I had ordered Pinta but the box I got said Nina. I thought I would build it anyway.  I was looking at pictures of all 3 ships and it confirms that this is really La Pinta. 

I'm curious about how you came to this conclusion. If the box and plans say Nina, the only way i can think of that it might be Pinta is off they boxed up the wrong parts; if that's true, you'll have some difficulties putting it together.

[Emmet]

Here are pics of Colunbus' ships. I think you can tell from the pics above that my ship is certainly not the NIna. And my ship does not have the large foredeck of the Santa Maria.  Let me know what you think. The odd part is as I said above is I ordered the La Pinta.

[ccoyle]

Again, I am confused about where you are getting your source material, i.e. the picture in your last post. You must keep in mind that no one knows exactly what Columbus's ships looked like; all models of them are generalized reconstructions. Therefore, there are differences between each company's kit design. The Nina in your photo does not look exactly like your kit, but then your kit is from Amati, so you should only compare your kit to what Amati thinks Nina looked like, not some other company or source. Hope that makes sense.

[Emmet]

31 minutes ago, ccoyle said:

Again, I am confused about where you are getting your source material, i.e. the picture in your last post. You must keep in mind that no one knows exactly what Columbus's ships looked like; all models of them are generalized reconstructions. Therefore, there are differences between each company's kit design. The Nina in your photo does not look exactly like your kit, but then your kit is from Amati, so you should only compare your kit to what Amati thinks Nina looked like, not some other company or source. Hope that makes sense.

I am aware of the lack of history on the ships.  I am baffled how you think I am casting aspersions on Amati.  Here are some ideas from Wikipedia.  If you ant it to be La Nina it is fine with me.  I am not a historian but I think Wikipedia is a decent source.  To tell the truth I thought that Amati put La Pinta in a La Nina box.  Leave the title the way it is.  For me it will be the La Pinta when I am finished. I cannot find any history that says otherwise.  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinta_(ship)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niña#/media/File:The_Nina_And_Pinta_—_Official_Views_Of_The_World's_Columbian_Exposition_—_86.jpg

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_María_(ship)

 

[ccoyle]

1 hour ago, Emmet said:

I am baffled how you think I am casting aspersions on Amati.

Hi, Emmet. I think you might be misunderstanding me. I am not casting aspersions on Amati. I am simply confused as to why you would make a case that your model represents Pinta when it clearly seems to be what Amati's designer thought Nina would look like.

 

1 hour ago, Emmet said:

I am not a historian but I think Wikipedia is a decent source.

Actually, Wikipedia can be problematic as source material, and this instance is a good example of why. Whoever submitted the second photo of the 1892 replicas has misidentified the two ships. The ship on the left is Santa Maria; the one on the right is Nina, not Pinta. A Google image search for "1892 Nina replica" will verify this. I don't see any other information at Wikipedia that suggests that a lateen-rigged model would represent Pinta. Even though Nina is reported to have been re-rigged with square sails during the voyage, all of the replicas made of her, including the 1892 replicas in the photos, show her as lateen-rigged, while Pinta is always square-rigged.

 

1 hour ago, Emmet said:

For me it will be the La Pinta when I am finished.

That is certainly an option, especially when much regarding the actual appearance of a particular vessel is conjecture.

 

1 hour ago, Emmet said:

I cannot find any history that says otherwise.

You linked to the Wikipedia article about Pinta, but not the one on Nina, which article supports the notion that only Nina was lateen-rigged.

 

Anyways, not trying to be argumentative. The only thing that ultimately matters is that you enjoy the building process and are happy with the final result -- no matter what you decide to call it.

 

Take care, friend!

[Emmet]

1 hour ago, ccoyle said:

Hi, Emmet. I think you might be misunderstanding me. I am not casting aspersions on Amati. I am simply confused as to why you would make a case that your model represents Pinta when it clearly seems to be what Amati's designer thought Nina would look like.

 

Actually, Wikipedia can be problematic as source material, and this instance is a good example of why. Whoever submitted the second photo of the 1892 replicas has misidentified the two ships. The ship on the left is Santa Maria; the one on the right is Nina, not Pinta. A Google image search for "1892 Nina replica" will verify this. I don't see any other information at Wikipedia that suggests that a lateen-rigged model would represent Pinta. Even though Nina is reported to have been re-rigged with square sails during the voyage, all of the replicas made of her, including the 1892 replicas in the photos, show her as lateen-rigged, while Pinta is always square-rigged.

 

That is certainly an option, especially when much regarding the actual appearance of a particular vessel is conjecture.

 

You linked to the Wikipedia article about Pinta, but not the one on Nina, which article supports the notion that only Nina was lateen-rigged.

 

Anyways, not trying to be argumentative. The only thing that ultimately matters is that you enjoy the building process and are happy with the final result -- no matter what you decide to call it.

 

Take care, friend!

Okay I see the argument about sails.  I was looking primarily at the hull and decks.  It would seem that I have the hull and decks of Pinta from Wikipedia ( I would not put google above Wikipedia) and sails from Nina.  So I will defer to NIna since I do realize that the sails are significant.

I am sure I have a lot to learn about these ships. Thanks for the discussion. I am back to having Nina.

[ccoyle]

12 minutes ago, Emmet said:

I am back to having Nina.

If the square-rigged Pinta was what you really had your heart set on, consider this one as a warm-up project to be better prepared for that one. 😉

[Emmet]

21 hours ago, ccoyle said:

If the square-rigged Pinta was what you really had your heart set on, consider this one as a warm-up project to be better prepared for that one. 😉

It might be months before I warm up.  I am going to Florida soon so at leasI my body will feel warm.  

I am in the process of trying to get the right tools, glues, pins and on and on it goes.

Edited January 10, 2020 by Emmet
adding media

[Emmet]

On 1/9/2020 at 1:32 PM, Emmet said:

It might be months before I warm up.  I am going to Florida soon so at leasI my body will feel warm.  

I am in the process of trying to get the right tools, glues, pins and on and on it goes.

Let me add that these frames are extraordinarily hard. The drill is working but I cannot believe that after drilling a .97 mm hole I still was using too much force

to get the 1 mm  push pins in.  I had to hammer too hard on the 5mm long and 1 mm brass nails.  They are obviously going to make filling and sanding harder.

 

Edited January 11, 2020 by Emmet

[ccoyle]

2 minutes ago, Emmet said:

They are obviously going to make filling and sanding harder.

Which is why I never use the brass pins that come with kits. I use push pins like the ones in your photos to temporarily fix planks in place. I do drill a pilot hole with a Dremel, and I use a tack hammer on the push pins. Yes, I lose a few now and then to attrition, but they are cheap and easily replaced. Are your bulkheads made of plywood or MDF? If your bits are getting dull, that seems to me that it might be more indicative of the quality of the bits themselves rather than any fault of the kit materials. Using a variable-speed Dremel set at the lowest rpms, I've never had any trouble drilling pilot holes. I'm also concerned about your drill's "wobble" -- that will place extra undue stress on the bits. Is it an actual Dremel-brand rotary tool or a different brand?

 

Cheers!

[Emmet]

43 minutes ago, ccoyle said:

Which is why I never use the brass pins that come with kits. I use push pins like the ones in your photos to temporarily fix planks in place. I do drill a pilot hole with a Dremel, and I use a tack hammer on the push pins. Yes, I lose a few now and then to attrition, but they are cheap and easily replaced. Are your bulkheads made of plywood or MDF? If your bits are getting dull, that seems to me that it might be more indicative of the quality of the bits themselves rather than any fault of the kit materials. Using a variable-speed Dremel set at the lowest rpms, I've never had any trouble drilling pilot holes. I'm also concerned about your drill's "wobble" -- that will place extra undue stress on the bits. Is it an actual Dremel-brand rotary tool or a different brand?

 

Cheers!

The drills are new and came with the pin vise drill by Werkzeug.They are not wobbling  very much-barely perceptible. And the bits are drilling without a problem. Yes it is a Dremel, my second.  Bulkheads are plywood which surprises me because normal plywood is softer rom the side.  Even when I drill a pilot hole the push pins do not want to go in. I did not hammer them but ci could give that a try. I will be resuming planking soon.  Further efforts should prove worthwhile. And yes the Dremel is at the lowest rpms.  When I say a little wobble I could be wrong. It may be none. I am poking a small dent so that the bit will be guided. Bare in mind the bits are only protruding about 8mm from the "chuck". Thanks for the help and input. Let's see how it goes.

[ccoyle]

BTW, if you drill with a rotary tool, you will inevitably break bits now and then, and they tend to be pricey if you buy them from the usual hobby suppliers. I have had good success using bulk bits from Widget Supply. They have them in all wire-sizes for $2.29/10.

 

Another tip: pin vises are too big to reach into some of the tight spots we modelers need to access. You can make finger drills by gluing wire-gauge bits into the ends of short pieces of dowel, ~1" in length. 

[Emmet]

On 1/10/2020 at 11:56 AM, ccoyle said:

BTW, if you drill with a rotary tool, you will inevitably break bits now and then, and they tend to be pricey if you buy them from the usual hobby suppliers. I have had good success using bulk bits from Widget Supply. They have them in all wire-sizes for $2.29/10.

 

Another tip: pin vises are too big to reach into some of the tight spots we modelers need to access. You can make finger drills by gluing wire-gauge bits into the ends of short pieces of dowel, ~1" in length. 

Good info. Once I saw that this drill method worked I checked Amazon -20 pc 61-80 4.95-Widget is 3.97 for similar and they are in a case, which is really important. I had to put all of the ones I had into separate envelopes.  I have never worked with such small things and I am finding it really draws and demands my attention.  While I always used calipers and micrometers it was always larger things.  

Regarding the dowels and bits I had seen a guy -on this site I think-making "chisels" out of drill bits.  I will have to look for that again. It may have been you. The glue is dry so let me see where I go from here.

 

Edited January 11, 2020 by Emmet
adding media

[Rob S]

Hi Emmet!  I'm responding to your question about the nails in my planks (Rob S: 1/90 HMS Victory by Mamoli). I soak my planks before shaping them to fit on a given section. Once they have been shaped and fitted, I add the wood glue to the plank underside where it will be touching the bulkhead sides, etc.  Then, after applying the glue and when actually attaching each plank, I typically start at the bow and with my 'loose hand' (one not holding the plank in place) I push in a small nail as far as I can and then with a small hammer, tap it home.  I do that for each plank/bulkhead connection as I move aft.  Once the planks are in place for several days, the nails can be removed. The nails were included with the kit.  Finally, be sure to check out Y.T.'s HMS Victory as he is a master at planking and shows the nails as well.  Your build looks great and best in future work! Rob S.

Edited January 12, 2020 by Rob S
Correcting the model scale to 1/90