AON Posted April 15, 2020 Author #181 Posted April 15, 2020 £500 in 1800 is equivalent in purchasing power to about £42,157.16 in 2020. A liveable wage today for sure. druxey and mtaylor 2 Quote Alan O'Neill "only dead fish go with the flow" Ongoing Build (31 Dec 2013) - HMS BELLEROPHON (1786), POF scratch build, scale 1:64, 74 gun 3rd rate Man of War, Arrogant Class Member of the Model Shipwrights of Niagara, Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada (2016), and the Nautical Research Guild (since 2014) Associate member of the Nautical Research and Model Ship Society (2021) Offshore member of The Society of Model Shipwrights (2021)
AON Posted April 15, 2020 Author #182 Posted April 15, 2020 will those sailors ever learn? 1808 (FYI - I've read many articles about duels... one between two women over a man! and the one was quite a good shot) druxey, lmagna, paulsutcliffe and 3 others 6 Quote Alan O'Neill "only dead fish go with the flow" Ongoing Build (31 Dec 2013) - HMS BELLEROPHON (1786), POF scratch build, scale 1:64, 74 gun 3rd rate Man of War, Arrogant Class Member of the Model Shipwrights of Niagara, Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada (2016), and the Nautical Research Guild (since 2014) Associate member of the Nautical Research and Model Ship Society (2021) Offshore member of The Society of Model Shipwrights (2021)
AON Posted April 15, 2020 Author #183 Posted April 15, 2020 same paper.... and the answer is a resounding NO, they will never learn. bruce d, lmagna, paulsutcliffe and 3 others 6 Quote Alan O'Neill "only dead fish go with the flow" Ongoing Build (31 Dec 2013) - HMS BELLEROPHON (1786), POF scratch build, scale 1:64, 74 gun 3rd rate Man of War, Arrogant Class Member of the Model Shipwrights of Niagara, Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada (2016), and the Nautical Research Guild (since 2014) Associate member of the Nautical Research and Model Ship Society (2021) Offshore member of The Society of Model Shipwrights (2021)
popeye2sea Posted April 16, 2020 #184 Posted April 16, 2020 19 hours ago, AON said: will those sailors ever learn? 1808 (FYI - I've read many articles about duels... one between two women over a man! and the one was quite a good shot) I see an interesting phrase that I do not know the meaning of. Can anyone shed some light on "half-seas over"? Perhaps it means mostly drunk? Quote Henry Laissez le bon temps rouler ! Current Build: Le Soleil Royal Completed Build: Amerigo Vespucci
AON Posted April 16, 2020 Author #185 Posted April 16, 2020 "half seas over" means fairly drunk or on they way to be stinking drunk... similar to "two" or "three sheets to the wind". lmagna, bruce d and mtaylor 3 Quote Alan O'Neill "only dead fish go with the flow" Ongoing Build (31 Dec 2013) - HMS BELLEROPHON (1786), POF scratch build, scale 1:64, 74 gun 3rd rate Man of War, Arrogant Class Member of the Model Shipwrights of Niagara, Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada (2016), and the Nautical Research Guild (since 2014) Associate member of the Nautical Research and Model Ship Society (2021) Offshore member of The Society of Model Shipwrights (2021)
AON Posted April 16, 2020 Author #186 Posted April 16, 2020 of all the articles I've scanned through (1012 to be exact) this is the very first in which I've noticed the use of the acronym "HMS". paulsutcliffe, druxey, lmagna and 1 other 4 Quote Alan O'Neill "only dead fish go with the flow" Ongoing Build (31 Dec 2013) - HMS BELLEROPHON (1786), POF scratch build, scale 1:64, 74 gun 3rd rate Man of War, Arrogant Class Member of the Model Shipwrights of Niagara, Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada (2016), and the Nautical Research Guild (since 2014) Associate member of the Nautical Research and Model Ship Society (2021) Offshore member of The Society of Model Shipwrights (2021)
AON Posted April 16, 2020 Author #187 Posted April 16, 2020 One for our American and Russian readers - 25 Nov 1809 mtaylor, uss frolick, druxey and 3 others 6 Quote Alan O'Neill "only dead fish go with the flow" Ongoing Build (31 Dec 2013) - HMS BELLEROPHON (1786), POF scratch build, scale 1:64, 74 gun 3rd rate Man of War, Arrogant Class Member of the Model Shipwrights of Niagara, Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada (2016), and the Nautical Research Guild (since 2014) Associate member of the Nautical Research and Model Ship Society (2021) Offshore member of The Society of Model Shipwrights (2021)
AON Posted April 17, 2020 Author #188 Posted April 17, 2020 A lesson from the past - 1809 We should be very careful! mtaylor, paulsutcliffe, lmagna and 3 others 6 Quote Alan O'Neill "only dead fish go with the flow" Ongoing Build (31 Dec 2013) - HMS BELLEROPHON (1786), POF scratch build, scale 1:64, 74 gun 3rd rate Man of War, Arrogant Class Member of the Model Shipwrights of Niagara, Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada (2016), and the Nautical Research Guild (since 2014) Associate member of the Nautical Research and Model Ship Society (2021) Offshore member of The Society of Model Shipwrights (2021)
bruce d Posted April 17, 2020 #189 Posted April 17, 2020 21 minutes ago, AON said: A lesson from the past - 1809 We should be very careful! So let's see: he was a fake bone model seller working for Bonaparte. Does that make him a Boney phoney? Or a model spy? I know, shuddup and go back to sleep .... uss frolick, AON, lmagna and 3 others 6 Quote 🌻 STAY SAFE A model shipwright and an amateur historian are heads & tails of the same coin current builds: HMS Berwick 1775, 1/192 scratchbuild; a Slade 74 in the Navy Board style Mediator sloop, 1/48 - an 18th century transport scratchbuild French longboat - CAF - 1/48, on hold
AON Posted April 18, 2020 Author #190 Posted April 18, 2020 I would not want to be the one to break this news to the crew after a long voyage - 1809 davyboy, bruce d, druxey and 2 others 5 Quote Alan O'Neill "only dead fish go with the flow" Ongoing Build (31 Dec 2013) - HMS BELLEROPHON (1786), POF scratch build, scale 1:64, 74 gun 3rd rate Man of War, Arrogant Class Member of the Model Shipwrights of Niagara, Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada (2016), and the Nautical Research Guild (since 2014) Associate member of the Nautical Research and Model Ship Society (2021) Offshore member of The Society of Model Shipwrights (2021)
AON Posted April 19, 2020 Author #191 Posted April 19, 2020 A collapsible! 1809 paulsutcliffe, druxey, davyboy and 1 other 4 Quote Alan O'Neill "only dead fish go with the flow" Ongoing Build (31 Dec 2013) - HMS BELLEROPHON (1786), POF scratch build, scale 1:64, 74 gun 3rd rate Man of War, Arrogant Class Member of the Model Shipwrights of Niagara, Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada (2016), and the Nautical Research Guild (since 2014) Associate member of the Nautical Research and Model Ship Society (2021) Offshore member of The Society of Model Shipwrights (2021)
AON Posted April 19, 2020 Author #192 Posted April 19, 2020 Why not just a good old fisticuffs knock down brawl? - 1809 Oh, right, unbecoming of a potential officer. davyboy, Mark P, bruce d and 5 others 8 Quote Alan O'Neill "only dead fish go with the flow" Ongoing Build (31 Dec 2013) - HMS BELLEROPHON (1786), POF scratch build, scale 1:64, 74 gun 3rd rate Man of War, Arrogant Class Member of the Model Shipwrights of Niagara, Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada (2016), and the Nautical Research Guild (since 2014) Associate member of the Nautical Research and Model Ship Society (2021) Offshore member of The Society of Model Shipwrights (2021)
bruce d Posted April 19, 2020 #193 Posted April 19, 2020 14 minutes ago, AON said: A collapsible! 1809 Now that is a pretty good trick: 17ft long, 100 soldiers with kit and drawing three inches of water! Reminds me of a modern cruise ship. druxey, davyboy, mtaylor and 2 others 5 Quote 🌻 STAY SAFE A model shipwright and an amateur historian are heads & tails of the same coin current builds: HMS Berwick 1775, 1/192 scratchbuild; a Slade 74 in the Navy Board style Mediator sloop, 1/48 - an 18th century transport scratchbuild French longboat - CAF - 1/48, on hold
mtaylor Posted April 19, 2020 #194 Posted April 19, 2020 9 hours ago, AON said: A collapsible! 1809 History keeps repeating itself. The US and allies during WWII had collapsible boats for crossing rivers. Not that big but the biggest ones could carry (if I remember right) 20 soldiers or so and equipment. bruce d, druxey, lmagna and 1 other 4 Quote Mark "The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me Current Build: Past Builds: La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD Triton Cross-Section NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Non-Ship Model: On hold, maybe forever: CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned)
druxey Posted April 19, 2020 #195 Posted April 19, 2020 Five paces apart? They must have been incredibly drunk to miss each other three times at that close range! Idiot adolescents.... Mark P, bruce d and mtaylor 3 Quote Be sure to sign up for an epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series http://trafalgar.tv
Louie da fly Posted April 20, 2020 #196 Posted April 20, 2020 I'm having trouble getting a mental picure of this - did they lie on top of each other? Let me see: allow 6 feet in height per soldier, and say 18 inches wide - that's 9 square feet per person. Then divide that into 17 feet long and five feet wide, which is 85 square feet; as I calculate that, there's room for probably 2 soldiers long and 3, maybe 4 wide. Which makes 6 or 8 soldiers. Divide that into 100, makes it 12 layers of soldiers high! Can someone check my maths? It just doesn't seem to work for me. On 4/18/2020 at 5:24 AM, bruce d said: he was a fake bone model seller I didn't know you could get fake bone back then . . . Steven mtaylor and bruce d 2 Quote It's not really a ship model unless you've bled on it. CURRENT BUILDS Golden City - Ballarat paddlewheeler La Lomellina - Theoretical Reconstruction of a Genoese carrack sunk in 1516 FINISHED Venetian merchant Ship from Basilica of San Marco Australian couta boat RMS Titanic HMVS Cerberus 11th century Byzantine dromon Winchelsea Nef - Late 13th century Mediaeval ship Henry Grace a Dieu - Rebuild of 1:200 model I started in 1967 Mistydeefer - restoration of decor model yacht
AON Posted April 20, 2020 Author #197 Posted April 20, 2020 regarding the fake bone model seller: I have to re-read many post as they sometimes read funny. I think they were saying he was a fake seller of bone models. regarding the number of soldiers in the boat: it all depends how you fold them? possibly they were boy soldiers! much younger and shorter, smaller chest size.... they had arms, possibly removed their legs?? I think it is just fake news possibly to confuse the enemy as I can't get more than 27 in the space semi-comfortably, 30 otherwise. bruce d, druxey and mtaylor 3 Quote Alan O'Neill "only dead fish go with the flow" Ongoing Build (31 Dec 2013) - HMS BELLEROPHON (1786), POF scratch build, scale 1:64, 74 gun 3rd rate Man of War, Arrogant Class Member of the Model Shipwrights of Niagara, Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada (2016), and the Nautical Research Guild (since 2014) Associate member of the Nautical Research and Model Ship Society (2021) Offshore member of The Society of Model Shipwrights (2021)
druxey Posted April 20, 2020 #198 Posted April 20, 2020 Hmm. Perhaps the total number of soldiers is 100, but taken in several trips across the river, before the bateau gives up and sinks! mtaylor 1 Quote Be sure to sign up for an epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series http://trafalgar.tv
bruce d Posted April 20, 2020 #199 Posted April 20, 2020 Wait! Did it say the boat was collapsible, or the soldiers? druxey and mtaylor 2 Quote 🌻 STAY SAFE A model shipwright and an amateur historian are heads & tails of the same coin current builds: HMS Berwick 1775, 1/192 scratchbuild; a Slade 74 in the Navy Board style Mediator sloop, 1/48 - an 18th century transport scratchbuild French longboat - CAF - 1/48, on hold
Mark P Posted April 20, 2020 #200 Posted April 20, 2020 Thanks Allan for keeping these coming. Fascinating stuff! Re the purchasing power of a £500 reward for turning in the murderers of the Revenue cutter crewmen, it is a fairer comparison to say that an ordinary seaman around this time was paid £11 6s per year, less than £1 per month. This means that £500 would be the equivalent of more than 40 year's pay! Now that would certainly be a major inducement! This had been the same since the reign of Charles II. I am not sure what happened to pay after the mutinies in 1797, maybe it was increased then. Imagine the rate of pay not increasing for over a hundred years; different times indeed, with presumably much lower inflation. Prices did increase dramatically during the Napoleonic Wars, though. Did you see anything to say what happened in the smugglers' case. Was the reward claimed. All the best, Mark druxey 1 Quote Previously built models (long ago, aged 18-25ish) POB construction. 32 gun frigate, scratch-built sailing model, Underhill plans. 2 masted topsail schooner, Underhill plans. Started at around that time, but unfinished: 74 gun ship 'Bellona' NMM plans. POB On the drawing board: POF model of Royal Caroline 1749, part-planked with interior details. My own plans, based on Admiralty draughts and archival research. Always on the go: Research into Royal Navy sailing warship design, construction and use, from Tudor times to 1790. Member of NRG, SNR, NRS, SMS
Mark P Posted April 20, 2020 #201 Posted April 20, 2020 (edited) See below a picture of a model from the NMM of a troop landing craft, approx mid 18th century. Length is 32 ft, width 10 ft. Total number on board 68 men. Edited April 20, 2020 by Mark P Written museum note added bruce d, Beef Wellington, mtaylor and 1 other 4 Quote Previously built models (long ago, aged 18-25ish) POB construction. 32 gun frigate, scratch-built sailing model, Underhill plans. 2 masted topsail schooner, Underhill plans. Started at around that time, but unfinished: 74 gun ship 'Bellona' NMM plans. POB On the drawing board: POF model of Royal Caroline 1749, part-planked with interior details. My own plans, based on Admiralty draughts and archival research. Always on the go: Research into Royal Navy sailing warship design, construction and use, from Tudor times to 1790. Member of NRG, SNR, NRS, SMS
Louie da fly Posted April 20, 2020 #202 Posted April 20, 2020 Yes, but the crew is obviously made up of pixies, so you could fit more of them in than if they were full-sized people . . . Steven lmagna, Mark P, mtaylor and 2 others 5 Quote It's not really a ship model unless you've bled on it. CURRENT BUILDS Golden City - Ballarat paddlewheeler La Lomellina - Theoretical Reconstruction of a Genoese carrack sunk in 1516 FINISHED Venetian merchant Ship from Basilica of San Marco Australian couta boat RMS Titanic HMVS Cerberus 11th century Byzantine dromon Winchelsea Nef - Late 13th century Mediaeval ship Henry Grace a Dieu - Rebuild of 1:200 model I started in 1967 Mistydeefer - restoration of decor model yacht
AON Posted April 21, 2020 Author #203 Posted April 21, 2020 (edited) Mark re: the smugglers unfortunately my focus is on one ship and so I've been given individual pages that mention her articles posted here are what I find on those pages that grab my attention I see but a fraction of what was printed in the time what happened to the smugglers was likely on a page I didn't get bad news is I finished all the pages I had. good news is I've just acquired another 400+ pages the other day, so there may be more here. Alan Edited April 21, 2020 by AON Mark P, davyboy, mtaylor and 5 others 8 Quote Alan O'Neill "only dead fish go with the flow" Ongoing Build (31 Dec 2013) - HMS BELLEROPHON (1786), POF scratch build, scale 1:64, 74 gun 3rd rate Man of War, Arrogant Class Member of the Model Shipwrights of Niagara, Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada (2016), and the Nautical Research Guild (since 2014) Associate member of the Nautical Research and Model Ship Society (2021) Offshore member of The Society of Model Shipwrights (2021)
AON Posted April 21, 2020 Author #204 Posted April 21, 2020 Mark It is easier to fit people in a wooden boat with thwarts than in a canvas boat that mentions them laying down in it and being stacked like cord wood mtaylor, lmagna and Louie da fly 3 Quote Alan O'Neill "only dead fish go with the flow" Ongoing Build (31 Dec 2013) - HMS BELLEROPHON (1786), POF scratch build, scale 1:64, 74 gun 3rd rate Man of War, Arrogant Class Member of the Model Shipwrights of Niagara, Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada (2016), and the Nautical Research Guild (since 2014) Associate member of the Nautical Research and Model Ship Society (2021) Offshore member of The Society of Model Shipwrights (2021)
Louie da fly Posted April 22, 2020 #205 Posted April 22, 2020 17 hours ago, AON said: good news is I've just acquired another 400+ pages the other day, so there may be more here. Good news - this has been a fascinating journey so far and I for one am looking forward to seeing more. Steven mtaylor, bruce d, davyboy and 1 other 4 Quote It's not really a ship model unless you've bled on it. CURRENT BUILDS Golden City - Ballarat paddlewheeler La Lomellina - Theoretical Reconstruction of a Genoese carrack sunk in 1516 FINISHED Venetian merchant Ship from Basilica of San Marco Australian couta boat RMS Titanic HMVS Cerberus 11th century Byzantine dromon Winchelsea Nef - Late 13th century Mediaeval ship Henry Grace a Dieu - Rebuild of 1:200 model I started in 1967 Mistydeefer - restoration of decor model yacht
AON Posted April 22, 2020 Author #206 Posted April 22, 2020 Here are a few a new invention with stem power - 1810 bruce d, davyboy, mtaylor and 2 others 5 Quote Alan O'Neill "only dead fish go with the flow" Ongoing Build (31 Dec 2013) - HMS BELLEROPHON (1786), POF scratch build, scale 1:64, 74 gun 3rd rate Man of War, Arrogant Class Member of the Model Shipwrights of Niagara, Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada (2016), and the Nautical Research Guild (since 2014) Associate member of the Nautical Research and Model Ship Society (2021) Offshore member of The Society of Model Shipwrights (2021)
AON Posted April 22, 2020 Author #207 Posted April 22, 2020 Here is one you don't see often - 1810 paulsutcliffe, mtaylor, lmagna and 1 other 4 Quote Alan O'Neill "only dead fish go with the flow" Ongoing Build (31 Dec 2013) - HMS BELLEROPHON (1786), POF scratch build, scale 1:64, 74 gun 3rd rate Man of War, Arrogant Class Member of the Model Shipwrights of Niagara, Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada (2016), and the Nautical Research Guild (since 2014) Associate member of the Nautical Research and Model Ship Society (2021) Offshore member of The Society of Model Shipwrights (2021)
AON Posted April 22, 2020 Author #208 Posted April 22, 2020 rank has its privileges - read down to the end. 1810 But sir... we was just 'av'n a friendly pint and it went down 'is wind 'ole, so I's made to smacked 'm on the back a few times to help 'm out, but he kept mov'n about on me, so's I smacked 'm to stop... honest. bruce d, druxey, paulsutcliffe and 2 others 5 Quote Alan O'Neill "only dead fish go with the flow" Ongoing Build (31 Dec 2013) - HMS BELLEROPHON (1786), POF scratch build, scale 1:64, 74 gun 3rd rate Man of War, Arrogant Class Member of the Model Shipwrights of Niagara, Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada (2016), and the Nautical Research Guild (since 2014) Associate member of the Nautical Research and Model Ship Society (2021) Offshore member of The Society of Model Shipwrights (2021)
AON Posted April 22, 2020 Author #209 Posted April 22, 2020 and last for today... need a job - 1810 paulsutcliffe, mtaylor, bruce d and 2 others 5 Quote Alan O'Neill "only dead fish go with the flow" Ongoing Build (31 Dec 2013) - HMS BELLEROPHON (1786), POF scratch build, scale 1:64, 74 gun 3rd rate Man of War, Arrogant Class Member of the Model Shipwrights of Niagara, Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada (2016), and the Nautical Research Guild (since 2014) Associate member of the Nautical Research and Model Ship Society (2021) Offshore member of The Society of Model Shipwrights (2021)
druxey Posted April 22, 2020 #210 Posted April 22, 2020 Apparently the builder failed in 1807. Somehow Kidwell must have been back in business - maybe! - in 1810. He had been contracted to build Pyramus, 36 guns, later 42, in 1805. After the yard closed, her frames were transported to Portsmouth, where the ship was reassembled and completed. That ad sounds sketchy to me. mtaylor 1 Quote Be sure to sign up for an epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series http://trafalgar.tv
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