East Coast Oyster Sharpie 1880-1900 by davec - FINISHED - 1/16 scale

[davec]

I picked the East Coast Oyster Sharpie for my next project using the plans and practicum by Bill Strachan and available from the NRG.  Everything is outlined at https://thenrg.org/genericsharpie.php, and the practicum has tons of pictures.  It is so well illustrated that I will probably limit the build log a little and not include things that are well outlined in the practicum, which is available on the NRG website for free.  The plans are beautiful, the build looks like it won’t take 6 years like my last one did, and it looks like a very different kind of project, which will make a good break.  I’m a little nervous as there are only two logs on MSW, and they both stop fairly early in the build. 

 

I started back in February with big plans to keep the project moving along, then COVID-19 hit.  I work in health care, so rather than extra time to model at a social distance, work has been completely consuming in terms of patient care and pandemic preparation and management.  I mostly go to the workshop at the end of a long day to decompress.  Working while tired has led to a lot of re-do’s already.  Not sure if late 19^th century Sharpie’s had names, but this one will be christened “Corona”.

 

So far, I’ve made the two building jigs. There have been a few discrepancies between the plans and practicum, and I’m starting to work off the plans with the instructions more as a guide.  Jig 2 went together easily.

The first jig needed some shims on frames 5 and 6.  Not sure what happened as I cut to the line in terms of frame shape.  I had a nice smooth curve along the top, but needed to shim the sides of frame 5 and 6 around 1/64 and 3/64 retrospectively.  With the shims, I have a smooth curve along the sides as well.  There are also some slight discrepancies between the as built jig and the profile on the plan, but given that everything seems fair, I don’t expect it will cause a problem later.

From this point on, I’ll be building the model instead of jigs, so will include more pictures.  I have enough boxwood left over from the cross section, so plan to use it.  I usually use contrasting wood colors, but have wanted to try a model using a single type of wood. I will finish in wipe on poly. I think the rigging and metal work should have enough contrast to keep it visually interesting.

Edited January 1 by davec
finished project

[MEDDO]

Dave, great to see you at least have some time in the shop.  Looking forward to this build as you have said not too many others have posted about it.  I did consider this one seriously as my next but still think it will be the Cheerful...then who knows echo cross next maybe a kit bash... All depends on the work requirements 

[Jim Cricket]

I'll be following this one, Dave. I love the sharpies myself.

Cricket

[davec]

Michael and Cricket - many thanks.  I took a look at Cricket's 1:8 Sharpie build log - really impressive.

 

I milled wood yesterday and have it soaking overnight for the keelson. Finished with jigs and starting on the model itself.

 

Dave

[davec]

Little more work yesterday.  Milled the wood for the chines, including the 9 degree angled side.  I have the tilting table for the Byrnes saw.  I don't get to use it often, but it works great. I also milled the 1/16" sheet for the bottom planking.  After the keelson pieces soaked overnight, they were clamped into the jig.  I work overnight tonight, so hopefully they will be dry and ready to shape and assemble over the weekend. The instructions say to screw the jig to the building board.  I will do that after this step.  Much easier to clamp with access to both top and bottom of the jig.

[davec]

Took a week to get the keelson strips bent.  Kept soaking them and clamping them in the jig to dry, but they didn't fully conform.  Finally took my plank bender, heat bent them, then clamped them, and they kept the appropriate shape.  Important lesson learned - lots of other parts to bend. Next time will start with the heat and get them shaped in a few hours. Very different from planking a hull, where you only need to get them close, then glue in place to keep the final shape.  Major step -  up until now have just made jigs.  Now I have an actual part of the model.

[MEDDO]

Great to see a part in the flesh so to speak.  Lots of prep work to get here.  Is your plank bender one fo those soldering iron thingies (technical term)? 

[John Cheevers]

Dave,

Great start! Gonna be fun following your progress.

John

[davec]

John and Michael - many thanks.  My plank bender is one of those soldering iron thingies - the one I used had a big round head that was deep enough to shape the three pieces of the keelson at the same time.

 

I’m beginning to run into some problems, and getting an idea why there are only two build logs, and I’m already as far as one of them stopped.

 

Looks like there are some issues coming up related to Jig 1 and building the bottom of the boat and the initial planking.  According to the monograph (link in the first post), the side planking appears to be done in three strakes, without any frame to hold the shape.  The more I look at it, the more difficult it looks, especially if I am going to end up with the 9 degree slope in the plans. The second build log ends just before the side planking, and I’m guessing this is why.  Jim Cricket’s build is planked over formers, which looks way more straightforward.

 

It looks like Jig 1 was designed to be used to shape the hull, but doesn’t get used that way in the monograph.  There are a few pictures that use two cross sections from it when adding the last planks, but never the whole thing.  The jig ends up only used to hold the keelson and chines coplanar while making the bottom of the hull, which is flat side to side, but curved fore and aft. 

 

The instructions say to shape Jig 1 to follow a smooth curve, but it can’t be just any smooth curve, it should conform to Jig 2.  One the bottom of the hull is finished, it is flipped over, placed on Jig 2, and the rest of the build is done on the second jig. 

 

The surfaces of Jig 1 and Jig 2 should be mirror images of each other.  They weren’t, and they are far enough off that the keelson and chines don’t fit vertically in the slots in Jig 1 through their whole lengths.  I might be able to fix that problem with a lot of shims and clamping and be able to build the flat bottom of the hull, but the jig won’t be useful for helping to plank.

 

I’ve ordered more 1/8” plywood, which is supposed to arrive Monday.  I miss being able to just drive to the hobby shop.  I’m going to redo Jig 1.

 

Looks like the easier thing to do would have been to make jig 2 first.  It is the simpler of the two to make.  It follows a single curve, and I’m comfortable I followed it, My plan is to redo jig 1, using jig 2 flipped upside down as a guide to adjust the heights of the cross sections of jig 1 to get the top surfaces to follow the right curve.  Once I have that right, I will notch the cross sections for the keelson and chines.  As the other builders noted, the section templates are a little too wide at some points, and the chine notches need to be moved inward.  This isn’t a problem for shaping the bottom of the hull, but makes the sides of the cross sections stick out past the edge of the chine, making the jig too wide to use to shape the side planks.  Once  the chine slots are cut  in the right place, I can hopefully shape the outside of the section templates to the intended shape of the inner side of the planking, and use the jig to help plank.  Even if I can’t get it to work for the planking, getting the tops of the cross sections in the right plane to hold the chines and keelson will make building the flat bottom a lot easier.  

Edited May 1, 2020 by davec

[MEDDO]

Wow seems like a complicated problem.  Will like to see how you overcome it.

[Jim Cricket]

Hi Dave, are you not planking up around the molds shown in your pic? I have not read the monograph. I'll have a look at in the am. Seems like the keelson and chines can be installed on the molds you have, and the planking wrapped around, but maybe I'm missing something.

[John Cheevers]

Dave,

 

I took a quick look at the monograph and it seems to me that the hull can be built on jig 1. The builder in the monograph does not seem to use jig 1 to help control the frame angle of the side planks. But it can be done using jig 1. Here is a look at the jig I used for my very "similar to a sharpie hull".  Your thinking is correct. You can call me to discuss technique if you want. 

 

John

[davec]

Michael - thanks!

 

John and Jim- Agree that the boat should be buildable over molds even though the monograph doesn't do it that way.  The current mold doesn't have the right contour along the top, and the sides don't quite agree with the plans.  Because everything is glued in place, it seems like it would be easier, faster, and  more accurate to redo from scratch.  I can rebuild it in a couple of hours so it works right, instead of frustrating myself trying to make this one work.  John - I may call you if I get stuck, but I'm optimistic - just wish I didn't have to wait for the plywood to come in the mail

 

thanks!

 

Dave

[Jim Cricket]

I don't see any reason why you can't set two or three molds up inside the upright boat, with the bottom, chine, and keelson structure assembled on the upright, curved bottom jig. You'll have to temporarily brace them plumb, and make sure the correct mold is in the right place. Some deadrise builders set the sheer plank, then frame the boat, then fill in the planks between chine and sheer.

[davec]

Hi Jim -  I think I am going to end up doing using both the jig as designed and some separate cross section molds at planking time.

 

This boat is a little different than yours in that  the bottom is completely flat side to side.  Chines and keelson need to be in the same plane.  The new jig will let me hold everything coplanar to build the floor. It will be the same design as the first one, except I will make sure the curve at the top conforms to the shape of the keelson and other jig, as well as the shape of the chines laterally. I could definitely build a boat on this jig, but it would end up a different shape than the plans.  I'm not sure about the implications of that for fitting other pieces later, and am trying to remain faithful to the design.  I realize this may not have been the case with building the real boat. 

 

Not sure if I can build the whole hull upside down on the jig.  The jig is designed so the chines and keelson project up around 1/32" above the level of the jig, so I don't need to worry about the bottom planking getting glued to the jig.  I can't figure out how to do the same on the sides.  I think the jig will be useful for shaping the side planks.  My tentative game plan will be to use the jig to help shape the planks.  I will briefly try to see if I can glue the planks on without getting glue near the jig.  If this isn't feasible, I will attach the side planks to the model with if flipped over like you suggest, using two or three molds (cross sections from the jig) to hold everything in place while it dries.  The other advantage of this is it would let me follow most of the rest of the monograph as written.

 

John - how did you build over your mold without the hull getting glued to the mold?

 

I milled the base for the new jig last night, and will start making some cross sections with some of the plywood I have on hand.  The new plywood should arrive tomorrow.   As with doing most things the second time, it is going faster and coming out better.  I think it will be worth it in the long run.

 

Dave

[Jim T]

Dave, I just checked into Model Ship World to see what's been going on and saw your post about starting on the Generic Sharpie. I have one of the build logs you've seen:

I didn't grind to a halt because of problems with the build, I just got sidetracked for other reasons. That said....... maybe I, unknowingly, got sidetracked just before I DID have problems! LOL 

 

I was really enjoying my build, so maybe watching your thread will get me re-energized. At the least, I'll get my project set up again and try to figure out where I was and figure out what you're dealing with. This is my first scratch building project, so having someone to build along with that has some experience would be great.

 

Stay safe, Jim

 

 

 

 

[davec]

Hi Jim - So glad that you checked in, and that you didn't stop because of problems.  Definitely much more motivating and easier to solve problems if someone else is building.  I hope you start again.

 

Dave

[davec]

Substantial progress over the weekend.  I cut new section templates, and used the keelson and jig 2 to adjust the curve on top (the bottom of the hull).  When I get it all done, will list all the adjustments to make it easier for the next builder.  The 3 templates at either end follow the right curve, but the ones in the middle needed some shimming, except #8, which needed some substantial lowering. I notched the templates for the keelson, which now sits 1/32" above the jig like it is supposed to. 

 

The picture from above doesn't show well because of perspective and distortion from my cell phone camera, but the outside curve now follows the plan.  The molds should extend to the inner planking line.  Most did, but a few went to the outside of the hull.  Once adjusted and beveled, a strip along the edges follows a nice smooth curve.

I've been working on the chine notches.  I have some irregularities to work out (would much rather try to shape boxwood than plywood), but am getting close to getting them right.  I've been clamping small boards along either side of the base to keep everything aligned.  It lets me remove the section templates to adjust them individually. 

 

This jig has been a lot of work, but at the very least will let me get the flat bottom of the hull right.  I doubt the rest of the build would go well if I don't have the right shape and size for it.  If the jig works the way it should, I should also be able to  use it as a mold for the planking.

Edited May 12, 2020 by davec

[Jim T]

Good headway Dave. I've been looking back at my build and at the monograph. According to it, the hull was built upright, so I'm a little confused when you refer to using the jig as a mold. But then I'm also confused how it can be planked without a mold. It also looks like I can do a lot of work before that first plank needs to go on. That is.......... if I actually get back to working on it! LOL

 

Jim

[davec]

Hi Jim -

 

The monograph does build it upright.  Maybe I should be less nervous and just build it the way they did.  Just looks like it would be hard to keep everything symmetric and aligned.

 

To me it looks like they originally intended to use the jig as a mold, then gave up.  It is in the right general shape for a mold, and they even take us through precisely beveling the sides.  It doesn't work as a mold using the templates as printed, but it is SO close.  Minor adjustments in heights of the stems of the middle section templates and narrowing a few of the templates to the inner planking line seems to make everything work.  It was initially frustrating, since once the jig is glued together it is hard to make the adjustments.  Rebuilding it adjusting each template separately is a lot easier.

 

The other thing that threw me off was figuring out what dimension the chines should be. The monograph gave two different options.  You clearly figured this out already.  I initially put the 9 degree bevel on 1/8" square stock.  When I redid it as 3/32x1/8"  it worked much better with the chine notches as drawn on the templates.  Another instance where the plans were clearer than the monograph.

 

I'd like to try building it on the mold. It was the way the real boat was made, and both the build by John Cheevers above and in Jim Cricket's log did it this way, with results I'd love to come close to.

 

I'm having fun experimenting. When I mail ordered the replacement plywood, buying a 5 sheet pack was the best deal, so I have plenty of material to play with.  I'm leaning towards not relying heavily on the monograph, and more on the plans and how the original boats were built.  If I plank on the mold, I will need to install all the inner workings after the planking, which is also different than the monograph.

 

Dave

[Jim T]

Dave,

 

What you say makes sense. As far as the mold goes, I think working from patterns is what creates the situation you dealt with. In the full size world this hull would be lofted to create the molds. Hard to do at model size. 

 

I notice the monograph seems to jump around some as far as the pictures go. Some of the steps seem to be written by coming back from the future.

 

No progress for me yet, but I did get my project out to try and figure out "now where the heck was I"? 

 

Jim

[davec]

Jim -

 

I agree the monograph does jump around some.  It seems like the authors tried a bunch of things as they developed their build techniques, wrote as they went, and didn't always remove all the text about false starts.  It would have been very interesting to see it as a build log which included the different things the authors tried.  I think they also needed to use pictures from later in the build to show details of things they didn't photograph at the time.   

 

They put a lot of time into this project, and took on something a lot different than the other tutorials and practicums that are available.  It is a cool project, even though there is a fair amount early on to puzzle out.  It looks like it will be pretty straightforward once the hull bottom and side planking are done.

 

Glad you took out your model.  Hope you start again.

 

Dave

Edited May 13, 2020 by davec

[John Cheevers]

Dave,

Sorry, I had no idea that the photo with the jig was so blurry. Here is a better photo. All I did to keep from gluing the hull panels to the jig was to bevel the edges of the jig, as you can see in this clearer image. 

[mtaylor]

You might give some thought to this, but what many builders do for the jigs is wrap them in kitchen plastic wrap or lay on 2 or 3 coats of car wax.  It helps that usually some glue does end up getting between the ship and the jig.  

[Jim Cricket]

Brown packing tape is what I've always used for release film. Very thin, and easy to apply.

[davec]

John - thanks for the better picture.  I just need to have my model come out as nice as your mold. Have you ever brought that model to a club meeting?  I don't remember seeing it.

 

Mark, John, and Jim - Thanks for the suggestions about preventing the hull getting glued to the mold.  As I think ahead, I'm mostly going to have to be really careful with glue application.  Any glue that comes out from under the chine will be visible, and will be very dry and hard to remove by the time I take the hull off the mold.  I plan to bevel the corner of the edge of the chine notch under the side planking, but mostly I'm going to have to avoid glue squeezing out under the edges.

 

Looking forward to some time over the weekend.  I've been picking away at the jig over the week.  I have all but one section both lining up with the inner planking line from the plans and having the chine follow a nice smooth curve through the notches on the other as cut sections without extra clamping.  I'm having minor trouble at section #5, which ends up being a little too narrow if I use the width from the plans. I'll try adjusting the adjacent notches a little more to see if I can compensate and use the section as drawn.  If not, I will make a new #5 that is a little wider so that everything follows a smooth curve.  The hull would be a little wider than the plans just at this section, but it seems better to do that than force fit the planking with a lot of clamping.

[Jim Cricket]

You're moving along, and problem solving as you go. That's what boat building is all about. For your next project, you might consider lofting yourself from plans. Besides being worthwhile, in and of itself, it tells you a lot about the boat, and if your lofting is fair, you know your molds and set up will be too.

Cheers

[Jim T]

36 minutes ago, Jim Cricket said:

You're moving along, and problem solving as you go. That's what boat building is all about. For your next project, you might consider lofting yourself from plans. Besides being worthwhile, in and of itself, it tells you a lot about the boat, and if your lofting is fair, you know your molds and set up will be too.

Cheers

Lofting would make sense. Also taking the dimensions directly off of the plan drawings. When I set my molds up, I slotted my jig in the exact place called out in the plans. It just occurred to me that if the molds were moveable they could be adjusted to obtain a fair curve?

 

Jim

[davec]

Made more sense in this instance to adjust the size of the molds than to move them.  Because some of the sections were drawn to the outer plank width, they were too wide, and shifting them wouldn't correct for this. 

 

I think I have them adequately adjusted.  Nothing in the pictures is glued yet, but I think I have both the upper and outer curves adequately fair, and as close to the plans as possible.  I ended up redoing sections 5 and 8.  I am a hair (around scale 1") wider than the plans at these two points, but it gives me a fair enough curve that I only need clamps at the two ends to hold everything in place.  I will need to adjust the keelson, which looks like it is also drawn to the outer hull at the bow (this may have been deliberate to allow extra wood for adjustments).  I will need to do a little minor shimming (cut my chine slots a little too big at #7) but I think it is time to glue everything in place.  With everything clamped instead of glued, there is a little give, so I may need to do some final adjustments once everything is completely rigid.

 

 

 

[John Cheevers]

Dave,

You're making great progress, and you're learning a lot about working from other folk's plans. I don't think you should be an absolute slave to the plan before you. Use it as a guide or roadmap, but don't fret the occasional road block or detour--the real builders didn't. I brought my model to a meeting to show off the jig and discuss how I glued up the pieces. The only thing missing that I wanted to add were slots for the transverse bulkheads--maybe on the next one. I was going to present the boat to show progress at our last meeting, but then I changed my mind. I'll PM you a recent shot as I kinda want to keep the model underwraps for now.

 

John