Wütender Hund by Chuck Seiler - Shipyard - 1/72 - Hanseatic Cog 1390 - CARD

[Chuck Seiler]

7 hours ago, Louie da fly said:

(Thus speaks the man who, after the Battle of Hastings re-enactment of 2000 AD was known as H2K (Hastings 2000) -  for the 2006 re-enactment coined the term TNBO -The Next Big One - which became the shorthand for the event among the re-enactment community. Of such things is immortality made).

Acronyms- They are the spice of life.

 

ALLRIGHTY!!!!! We got to page 2!!!!

[Baker]

Nice models.

 

Where I live. We dig a big hole.   And find... a cog 😳

 

https://mass.cultureelerfgoed.nl/doel-cog?language=en

[Chuck Seiler]

SURPRISE!!!!

[Chuck Seiler]

Originally a question...now a cautionary tale.

 

    As I am almost finished hull planking, I come to a part where I make a caprail sort of structure for the stern.  The sheet has parts 131, 131a and 132.

 

    ...however the instructions only tell me about 131 and 131a.  I scoured the instructions and saw nothing on this.  I THINK I know what it is for, but I don't want to do anything the instructions don't tell me (as if THAT has ever happened before).

 

    My question was going to be...what is this for?  As I was pondering this, Chris posted some shots of his progress. Huzzah!!!!  There it is!!!!!

 

    Question answered, but another example of SHIPYARD instructions being incomplete.

 

[ccoyle]

Strange. I recall seeing part #132 in my instructions -- might be something they caught when they rolled out the new kit. As you are probably well aware, card kit instructions are notorious for the occasional omission or lack of clarity. Learning to work around these is an acquired skill!

[Chuck Seiler]

It's like an Easter egg hunt. 

[Chuck Seiler]

    Progress continues.  I have completed the frame extensions on the port side and added the top exterior plank strake.

 

 

    I am really having problems with the frame extensions.  I primed and painted them while attached to the card, as the instructions recommended for the planking.  While this prevents curling (if painted after removal) it leaves residue on surfaces I don't want residue on.  Some of them were difficult to remove.  It almost felt that they had been exposed to humidity and were kind of mushy.  Southern California is not known for high humidity, but this is a strange summer.

 

    These are also frail beasties subject to breakage.  Each time I would pick it up ( normally with visors...thus creating focal strangeness) I would have the chance of bumping into a frame.  As you can see.  Many were bent.

 

     A closer look at the frames.  The yard supervisor greets a visiting tourist.

     I was told there would be a pool.  Chris' ship has a pool.

 

    No ma'am, no pool.  Chris' pool was planked over.

 

    Dang!  Hey, you are not including me in your build log just to attract viewers are you.

 

    No ma'am.  That would be ungentlemanly and I would not like to be accused of that.  Besides, I have a job for you...as lookout.  Everybody will be looking at you in the fighting top and ignoring the crappy hull planking.

 

    A look at the planking from the exterior as well as a closer look at the cargo hatch now in place.  (Could be a pool cover).  I added  eye bolts to the hatch.

 

    In an effort to avoid SOME damage, I installed part of the starboard side top strake before continuing with the frame extensions.

[ccoyle]

Just a heads up -- as you know, the frame extensions are notched on the inboard side. Those notches indicate the placement of the inner bulwark planking. The inner and outer bulwark planking should be the same height; if you have extensions extending significantly higher than the outboard planks, you'll probably run into some fit problems with the inboard planks.

[Chuck Seiler]

1 hour ago, ccoyle said:

Just a heads up -- as you know, the frame extensions are notched on the inboard side. Those notches indicate the placement of the inner bulwark planking.

    Yeah, not anymore.   In all cases I needed to cut down the bottom of the extensions.  The first couple I didn't, so they extend(ed) way high.  Even when cutting down, many of the extensions were too high and needed to be trimmed.  I already know that the top and bottom notches are too small and that the overall length of the extensions are probably too short to accept all three inner strakes. 

 

    I have been thinking about how I will handle that.  Definitely bend to fit, paint to match. 

[Chuck Seiler]

Postscript:  I was able to dry fit the three aftmost port side planks.  Notches not withstanding, the planks fit with room to spare.  The gaps between the strakes are smaller than planned, but that is not a bad thing.

[Chuck Seiler]

    I have been bitten by the cog bug.  After watching Chris Coyle's log, I invested in the wooden version of Wutender Hund (Woody  Dog).  It arrived a few days ago and I just had a good look at it.  My intent is to bash it slightly so it is a non-military/more commercial version.

 

    I am very impressed with it.  The instructions seem more detailed and the parts more crisp.  Don't get me wrong, the parts on the Cardy Dog are good quality and the laser cutting is top notch.  The cardboard, however, has issues as I mentioned above when it is hot or humid.

 

    My first reaction is to set aside Cardy Dog and start working on Woody Dog.  I vow not to, but...…  <build me.  build me.>

[Chuck Seiler]

Progress continues.  Hull planking and (most) frame extensions complete.

 

[AnobiumPunctatum]

The cog is looking really nice.

[Chuck Seiler]

    Progress continues.  After seeing Chris' progress pics, I am embarrassed to post.

 

    Frames extensions on the round end.  Less than great.  Fortunately this will be covered by the stern castle.  Hey, get the carpenter over here to trim that frame end!!!

 

    Progress on the pointy end.  Wait!  This is the same shape as the round end.  Okay, the end with the antenna.  What do you call it?  Oh, the bow.

 

    The next step is the above deck athwartship deck beam.  Up to this point, the model has had reference marks to keep me somewhat on track.  I decided to make my own here.

 

    The small printed square/rhombus is where the deck beam would come thru in real life.  If I put a hole thru the hull at the center to the square, it will give me a reference point.

 

    Hole on the inner hull.  No worries about the hole showing.  It will be covered up.

 

    The deck beam should run from hole to hole.

 

    Unfortunately, first I need to install the deck beam support/cathead thingy.  I guess I COULD install the deck beam first...why start following instructions now.   A couple things have got to line up.  First, the tab at the bottom of the support SHOULD line up with the hole.  Second, it SHOULD be perpendicular to the beam.  Later a knee will be added from the beam to the support and it should be square.  Unfortunately if I do that it will not line up with the edge of the top plank which angles slightly aft.  Roll the dice and see what happens.

 

    The support is about a millimeter to far aft but I can live with that as long as the one on the other side is the same.  Green is the hole.  Red is the tab.  The top of the support sticks out from the plank a little, but acceptable, in my view.  I may live to regret that.

 

    It's time to trim frames and touch up the edges with paint.

[Louie da fly]

On 6/12/2020 at 12:46 PM, Chuck Seiler said:

WH appears to represent the middle ground where you can take your basic commercial cog, run down to Home Depot and get some lumber, slap together a forecastle and duct tape it to the bodacious stempiece.  Obviously the various depictions span several centuries and can be attributed to different building styles and conditions.  The ones with the Home Depot Fore-castles (HDFC) could well be ones built in less than tumultuous times but were pressed into military service or added when the threat suddenly increased.

This idea is dealt with briefly in a paper at https://www.academia.edu/5176098/Naval_warfare_in_Europe_c_1330_c_1680?email_work_card=view-paper  which is mostly about the impact the development of guns and gunports had on maritime warfare, but includes the passage "As a sea-going ship could be easily transformed into a warship –by putting superstructures called ‘castles’ fore and aft(14)  and, after the introduction of the heavy gun, by temporarily adding gun-ports and strengthening the hull and masts(15) – merchant fleets were of great military importance and crucial for the execution of sea power."

 

Footnote 14 quotes T. J. Runyan, "Cogs, Caravels and Galleons". in The Sailing Ship 1000-1650 , by Robert Gardiner. - London (1994) (But I'm not prepared to pay US$38 (or $350 from Amazon) for a book to satisfy my curiosity as to what someone might have said about adding castles to merchant ships to convert them to warships. OTOH it looks like it might be interesting and they have a copy in the State Library of Victoria. Maybe I'll go and visit when the Covid thing has blown over).

 

Backer said: "Where I live. We dig a big hole.   And find... a cog" And that's only Doel No. 1! There's another cog - Doel No. 2! https://www.academia.edu/27506746/Doel_2_a_second_14th_century_cog_wrecked_in_den_Deurganck_Doel_Belgium

 

It's hard to believe your model is made of card, not wood. It's very impressive. And now you're going to make the wooden one! Good stuff.

 

I wonder whether the best translation of Wutender Hund into modern parlance wouldn't be "junkyard dog"?

 

 

[Louie da fly]

Hi Chuck. Thought you might be interested in this. In Norway they've found "cogs" with remnants of rigging items. And there's a good definition of what are currently accepted as the characteristics of a "cog" 

 

https://www.academia.edu/22591645/Medieval_Shipwrecks_from_North_Norway_and_their_Contribution_to_Understanding_Maritime_Interaction_and_Trade?email_work_card=view-paper

[Chuck Seiler]

Many thanks.

 

How can I download/view?  It requires either Facebook or gmail.  I don't have a facebeak account and I USED to have gmail, but cannot recall it.

[Louie da fly]

Chuck, I've downloaded it as a PDF. I'll PM it to you.

 

[Chuck Seiler]

Received.  Thanks.

[LEXLOMA]

Chuck, you haven't strayed to the wooden version, have you?  Focus... focus!

 

Seriously, I was able to visit with Chuck recently and saw the WONDER DOG in person.  I was impressed with the use of cardboard for much of the construction and was surprised to learn that the decking was Yellow Cedar (it matched the cardboard so well.)  I've recently tried my hand at cardboard planking on my build of YANKEE HERO (though carvel style) and also found that while cardboard has advantages as a material it also has its' drawbacks:  unintended creases or material shortfall gaps are not easily remedied.  A seemingly endless cycle of priming, painting, sanding produced acceptable results.

 

Fun log Chuck; looking forward to more!

Edited November 16, 2020 by LEXLOMA

[Chuck Seiler]

On 11/16/2020 at 11:44 AM, LEXLOMA said:

Chuck, you haven't strayed to the wooden version, have you?  Focus... focus

Alex,

 

    Hey there...welcome to MSW.  I missed this.  Too busy retiring.

 

    As a matter of fact, yes.  I have set Cardydog aside and am working slowly on Woodydog.  I am at about the point as post #10 here.  I set Cardy aside for a reason, which I will hope to reveal withing the next 2 or 3 weeks.  It will be easier to show than explain.

 

    I am finding it much easier and more pleasurable.  I don't know if it is wood versus card or if it is because I have done it already...or both.  I am working on building and not documenting, but I should probably start taking pictures so I can start the new build log 'already in progress'.  Also some newsletter fodder. 

[Chuck Seiler]

    The Michala Street Shipyard and Beer Emporium is once again operational.  I won’t be accused of outstripping the Kaiser shipyards of WWII but there is progress.

 

    When last we met, I discussed starting the wooden version of the model (Woody Dog).  I have done so for reason I will discuss below.

 

 

    I am enjoying the wooden version much more than I did the card version (Cardy Dog).  I’m not sure if it is because I have made it once already so I am more familiar or because am better able to work the material.  That will impact some decisions moving forward.  Above is progress of Woody Dog as of a few weeks ago.

    One of the issues I had with the model, and this is true of both wood and card, is that the material is thin and often had to be laminated in several layers to use.  In most cases this turned out okay, but in the case of the deck beams, which extend out thru the hull, it was not working for me.  This shows the location where the stubs would be.

 

    I decided to pierce the hull and insert wood stubs.  Since I had already planked over the deck, I did not know where the bulkheads were in relation to the holes.  I started the Woody Dog build so I could determine this.

 

    The forward-most beam would be a problem since most of the beam is above deck and exposed…and already installed.  I could remove it, but decided it would cause more problems than it was worth.

 

    Extra care would be required when cutting these holes.

 

 

    Lining up Cardy Dog and Woody Dog as best I could, I marked the locations of the holes.  In retrospect, it may have just been easier to continue the Woody Dog planking until those strakes were installed.  Ah well.

 

 

    Hole cut.

 

 

     “Beam” inserted for test fit

 

 

    Beams trimmed and glued into place.

 

 

    A closer look shows some problems with the procedure.  Some dressing up will be required.

 

 

    Still working on the hole for the above-deck beam.

 

[Louie da fly]

Looking good, Chuck.

 

Steven

[Baker]

Nice work 

[Chuck Seiler]

    Moving forward.  I will continue to work on both models but I will not document both.  Because I am having more success with Woody Dog, I will document that build and pick up there where Cardy left off.  It will take a couple weeks to get to that point.  Meanwhile, I have some issue to confront.  Some I have already decided on, but will share them for comment and input.

 

--It was always my plan to make Cardy Dog the privateer as designed while bashing the kit and making Woody more like the Bremen Cog that CATOPOWER (Clare) built.  I still intend on doing that.

 

--Tiller/whipstaff.  In the various “Shipyard” cog build logs there were discussions about how the tiller/rudder worked.  My thoughts were posted in Chris’ log (post 68 and 71).  It didn’t make sense to me.  As I was doing research for an upcoming carrack model, I thought about using a whipstaff, however there was no documentation to back that up.  I saw no whipstaff on any current replicas that I could see, nor on any museum quality models.  I will go with the tiller below deck WITHOUT blocks.

 

--I got lucky with Cardy Dog and managed to make the paint color reasonably close to what was called for.  Several people who saw it up close were surprised it was NOT wood.  I need to choose my stain wisely.  I will be doing test runs.

   +HONEY MAPLE might closely replicate the color of Cardy Dog, but tests (so far) do not produce the same depth of color.  A lot of coat may be required.  I may end up using this for the deck.

 

   +Also considering NATURAL for the deck.

 

   +Like Chris, I am considering GOLDEN OAK and GOLDEN PECAN for the hull.  I used GP for my PHILADELPHIA inner planking and was very happy with it.

 

 

Edited February 15, 2021 by Chuck Seiler
Fix fonts

[Louie da fly]

As far as I'm aware the whipstaff didn't come in until the late 16th century, so definitely too late for a cog.

 

Steven

[Chuck Seiler]

MATTHEW of BRISTOL (1497) has a whipstaff, but that is a replica so I don't know how accurate.

[Louie da fly]

I can't give definitive evidence, but all the sources I've seen put the beginning of the whipstaff in the 16th century or later.

 

 

Steven

[Chuck Seiler]

What did they use in the early carracks?  Tillers?  How did they handle the logistics of the guy driving the ship being remote from the guy steering the ship?  The needs for a helmsman to react quickly to a helm order in a slow moving sailing ship in the open ocean is not necessary.  How about in restricted waters?

[Louie da fly]

The earliest carracks were open at the break of the aftercastle, so the helmsman could see forward.

 

        

 

However, as the aftercastle got bigger the fore end was closed in and steering must have been a bit of a problem.

 

 

The same issue has occurred to me, and the only thing I can think of it that perhaps steering orders were relayed to the helmsmen by those on the upper deck. Obviously the whipstaff was an improvement, but even that wasn't a perfect solution, and the development of the ship's wheel would have made things a lot easier.

 

Steven