Charles Green Posted June 15, 2020 Share #1 Posted June 15, 2020 The masterful carvings from the 1500's to 1800's seen on model ships in museums and books - done by people with talent beyond belief - but what of their work stations and tools? The steel of their carving tools would be considered inferior today. What about lighting - a sunny window? An oil lamp? And vision: When I was younger I could do close work right off the end of my nose, but I was too young to have acquired any talent. Now I need a magnifying hood and with it I still can't see as well as I used to with unaided vision. And this is with modern optics. What did the old masters use/do to be able to see what they were doing? Were tool kits of any of the masters preserved? Are there references to how they physically achieved their results? mtaylor 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
druxey Posted June 15, 2020 Share #2 Posted June 15, 2020 Directional light, whether natural (sun) or artificial (candle, oil lamp) would have been best. I suspect that many of the old-time carvers were either short-sighted to be able to work close, or wore spectacles. The Art Gallery of Ontario in Toronto has the 'kit' of a 17th century miniature carver along with his spectacles and examples of his amazing miniature work. See: https://boxwood.ago.ca/publication/making-gothic-boxwood-miniatures and https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/705181 allanyed, MEDDO, dvm27 and 3 others 6 Quote Be sure to sign up for an epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series http://trafalgar.tv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtaylor Posted June 16, 2020 Share #3 Posted June 16, 2020 Charles, if you're interested there's a carving sub-forum here: https://modelshipworld.com/forum/84-build-logs-for-the-carving-group-project/ Might be worth a look. druxey 1 Quote Mark "The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me Current Build: Past Builds: La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD Triton Cross-Section NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Non-Ship Model: On hold, maybe forever: CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Green Posted June 16, 2020 Author Share #4 Posted June 16, 2020 mtaylor: Thanks for the tip on the carving group. Charles mtaylor 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Green Posted June 16, 2020 Author Share #5 Posted June 16, 2020 druxey: Thanks for the links to other sites. It looks like a kit of purpose-made tools is the way to go. Micro-Carving kits with a pare of left and right skews and some gouges never did look adequate! mtaylor 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Pellett Posted June 16, 2020 Share #6 Posted June 16, 2020 Steel for carving tools was available in small quantities. The springs in antique fire arms are an example of steel that could be heat treated to hold an edge. Roger mtaylor 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allanyed Posted June 16, 2020 Share #7 Posted June 16, 2020 Charles, if you want to invest in a magnificent set of carving tools, I highly recommend those made by Mihail Kirsanov. I usually enjoy carving, but these chisels make carving and joinery work a true pleasure. Will there be a need for customized tools at times, I would guess this might be the case, depending on the situation, but these are probably 99% of what you would likely ever need. There are a number of members here that am sure will attest to the quality of this set of tools. Allan druxey, BLACK VIKING and mtaylor 3 Quote PLEASE take 30 SECONDS and sign up for the epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series. Click on http://trafalgar.tv There is no cost other than the 30 seconds of your time. THANK YOU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wefalck Posted June 16, 2020 Share #8 Posted June 16, 2020 Workplace illumination was augmented by a sort of condensing lense, i.e. a glass sphere filled with sulfuric acid because of the high refractive index. Sometimes only water or a solid glass sphere was used, but the latter would have somewhat distorted the beam due to irregularities. These sphere were either placed in front of a window or a petroleum lamp. They were common in e.g. engravers' or clockmakers' workshops. mtaylor, druxey, Mark P and 1 other 4 Quote wefalck panta rhei - Everything is in flux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
druxey Posted June 16, 2020 Share #9 Posted June 16, 2020 Wefalck:I can't imagine the result from the accidental breaking of one of those acid-filled globes! Allanyed: I agree that, while expensive and in limited supply, the Kirsanov set are superb. If you are serious about carving in miniature and have some experience already, these are for you. Just use a light touch and keep them well honed. A heavy hand can result in breakage. mtaylor 1 Quote Be sure to sign up for an epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series http://trafalgar.tv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wefalck Posted June 16, 2020 Share #10 Posted June 16, 2020 Well, people then may have had different risk perception ... Here is an image of a wood-cutter in his shop. These sphere were used by all sorts of professions. From: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2a/1903_Holzschneider.jpg Two such (solid) glass balls on stands are currently up for auction with Charles Miller in London: https://www.charlesmillerltd.com/auction/lot/322-two-19th-century-refracting-glass-balls/?lot=13664&so=4&st=refracting&sto=0&au=&ef=&et=&ic=False&sd=0&pp=48&pn=1&g=1 Mark P, allanyed, druxey and 1 other 4 Quote wefalck panta rhei - Everything is in flux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Green Posted June 16, 2020 Author Share #11 Posted June 16, 2020 wefalch: I have noticed those spheres in old drawings/paintings but did not know their function. druxey and mtaylor 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Green Posted June 16, 2020 Author Share #12 Posted June 16, 2020 allenyed: I had never heard of Kirsanov's tools. It looks like those I am familiar with only amount to wanna be's. druxey and mtaylor 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allanyed Posted June 17, 2020 Share #13 Posted June 17, 2020 Charles, If you would like to contact him, PM me and I will send you his email address. You will not find better chisels anywhere. Allan mtaylor 1 Quote PLEASE take 30 SECONDS and sign up for the epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series. Click on http://trafalgar.tv There is no cost other than the 30 seconds of your time. THANK YOU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Green Posted June 19, 2020 Author Share #14 Posted June 19, 2020 Allen: Work with me. What is PM? Charles mtaylor 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Black Posted June 19, 2020 Share #15 Posted June 19, 2020 PM = personal/private message mtaylor 1 Quote Current Builds: Wood Hull Screw Frigate USS Tennessee Decorative Carrack Warship Restoration, the Amelia Completed: Early Swift 1805 Model Restoration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allanyed Posted June 19, 2020 Share #16 Posted June 19, 2020 Thanks for the help/response Keith. Charles, I received your message and sent you an email. Allan mtaylor and Keith Black 2 Quote PLEASE take 30 SECONDS and sign up for the epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series. Click on http://trafalgar.tv There is no cost other than the 30 seconds of your time. THANK YOU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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