Cutty Sark by NenadM

[NenadM]

And finally .... little peace for me, work continues with filling crater ( mix of alabaster Gyps and wood glue) smothing base of bowsprit, and when mixture harden to half, mounting it in crater under top of foredeck

 

 

 

Ugly in first step, but linening with ship axes in crater is more important

 

Some toothpicks are used to fine corect line

 

Waiting for mixture to harden, I run some test how to make imitation of chain 0,5 mm thick which belted base to bow

 

Here is result on a scrap piece at same diameter as bowsprit

 

 

 

Little traces of thin gold acrylic will be added to imitate metal shine

 

Hmmm ... maybe this is new way for making all kind of ropes?

 

After a hour, mixture hardened as stone which made me happy having in mind all lines, ropes and chains with their little forces which will summarize in this point. In every kit plans of CS I have opportunity to see, base of bowsprit is deeply involved and hard fastened to hull-kell structure (longitudinal "spine" structure in POB models) under main and fore decks. My unexperience and moment of insanity when I decided to cutt it, lead me to problem how to fasten it hard and strong. This is the best I devised without removing fore deck (no way to do it)

 

Corecting this little mess, I remembered that in early stage of building ( before my birthday when I got Dremell thing) I was not able to make final (or first) upper "rib" intended to fasten bowsprit to hull structure. Here is improvisation from this days, just to remember myself about two left legs by which I made my first steps

 

 

Aftet couple of reconstructions of fore deck I made, and when I was working on front part of main rail, this ugly "rib" dissapeared somehow (probably cutted of) and now is last chance to recover it - statical and aesthetic reasons

 

Started with test piece

 

 

With mentioned Dremell thing it was quite easy to make now

 

After three hours, my concentration went to deep ocean, and I went upstairs

Edited February 27, 2015 by Nenad M

[keelhauled]

looking fantastic!  Don't forget to put the knights heads back on either side of the bowsprit.  Also the eyes for the stays.  Don't put the rails and stuff in place before those eyes. Also you might consider rigging the stays to those eye bolts before continuing to build up the head area.  I wished that I had thought about it. It's going to be a challenge to rig them if the rails and stuff are in place.

[Lou van Wijhe]

Another rebus ... color of front name panel

or it is just playin' of the light?

 

Nenad,

 

It is the light, indeed. The panel is definitely black.

 

Lou

[NenadM]

Thank you, Marc for kind words

Thank you Lou for your support. Your pictures are important resource for invedtigation about thiny details. Yes, I think also it is a light.

Analyzing front panels, it seems that Nanny has to be mounted in this stage. But her arm is thinny and fragile, and here is real chance to broke it

Speaking about Nanny ... here is figure from original Tehnodidakta Kit





I do not like it. Thinking about trying to carve Her

Or I am idiot - Nanny figure without arm is less than 2 cm long with arm exactly 2,1,cm. I am not sure I can do it better on such a scale.

Edited February 28, 2015 by Nenad M

[NenadM]

Work on bow/bowsprit continues. New "rib" made, glued, putty apllied

 

Because my HTC has very bad camera, this pictures are made through magnifier glasss, so perspective is a bit strange

Next, before painting, this black structure (did I mentioned I am not so familiar with ship terms in English?) has to be made tomorrow



And a litlle nice cheating



My bowsprit is not on position to go through fore deck as on plans and photos ( known reason - lost h....) and this is such a nice detail I just couldn't resist to have, so cheated a little, making this little mask to simulate it. When black structure will be on place, and the rest of bowsprit too, I think nobody can see that this is fake bowsprit runing throuhgt fore deck

Looking on bow, I have strange feeling that something is wrong, and that name panels will be pretty hard and problematic to conect with bow and Nanny ... It seems that there will be more surgery than I want ... we'll see

Edited February 28, 2015 by Nenad M

[NenadM]

... I spent about 20 hours drawing the belaying pin plan for the ship using multiple sources ...

 

I am planing also to research on same way masting, yards, rigging, and sails, combining with some books about riggin I found. I do not know absolute anything about sails and rigging, and maybe you are in better position. Something I learned on MSW following different logs, but it seems to be just first few letters of alphabet, and in front of us is "war and peace" to read and write. I can imagine paper/digital materials produced by ssuch a work ... only bowsprit research gives me about 20 A4 pages of comparaative schemes, drawings and photos

 

 

Mixed feelings about. On one side - I can not wait to reach this stage, on another, scared about. But it seems to me that there is some logic in rigging, and that makes it a bit easier

Edited February 28, 2015 by Nenad M

[keelhauled]

I like the fake bowsprit going into the deck.  As you said when the black knights heads are in place, no one will know.

 

 As for the rigging, I'd be happy to share any of the research that I've done with you.  I drew the belaying plan to the scale of my ship (1:78).  I can't scan it, but I could take photos for you whenever you need them.  I've also drawn detailed drafts of the masts based primarily on Campbell with some comments from Longridge.  Longride and Campbell disagree when it comes location of the blocks and the types of blocks on the yards.  I went with Campbell for the blocks and Longridge for the actual construction of the yards.  I noticed some differences in the way that the Cutty is currently rigged verses the other two sources.  I figure it has to do with the period of the ship as well as rigging the ship for display.

 

You should try sculpting the new figure head.  You have nothing to loose.  If you don't like it you always have the original to go back to.  However, based on your work so far, I'm sure your sculpture will be better than what the kit supplied.

 

Keep up the great work!

marc

Edited March 1, 2015 by keelhauled

[NenadM]

Aaaa, Knight Head it is called ...

 

I thought this is knighthead

 

 

My english ...

 

[NenadM]

All the knights survive "battle for bow crater" , and after they win, one of them sit over bowsprit proudly showing his two heads

 

 

Edited March 1, 2015 by Nenad M

[NenadM]

My third sense was right. Yes, there will be problem with front name panels. Toward C-plans, white rail is about 4mm more down than it has to be, and there is no return. (LHL sindrom again)

 

There are lines as on C-plans

 

 

And lines how has to be

 

 

Considering main goal is look of panels as on CS, it is sure that solution will again be in a arthistic approach ( something little wider, something little more narrow, some lines more straight, some lines more curve). But first I have to analyze support structure. Until that, go to finish romanian numbers on bow

 

 

At stern, numbers start with XIII not with X as on bow

 

Edited March 1, 2015 by Nenad M

[dgbot]

Have you thought about how to rig the bowsprit? It will be under stress and from the way you have it it snap off when you are in the middle of rigging. No support.

David B

[NenadM]

Have you thought about how to rig the bowsprit? It will be under stress and from the way you have it it snap off when you are in the middle of rigging. No support.

David B

Not jet Dave

 

Little thoughts here and there, not serious thinking. I keep in mind this fragile construction, just as on top of masts, and had some ideas how to make this parts stronger ( more elastic wood, steel wire inside, made of several longitudinal layers ...) Still far far away from this stage, and probably I'll learn something about on MSW until time comes

 

Only conclusion about I made until today is that I must aquire Hothhead's room when times come, because my workspace I use now, will be so small for Her with bowsprit. Try to imagine Her in full lenght in this workbench. ( This is barbeque toothpick

 

 

Edited March 1, 2015 by Nenad M

[popeye the sailor]

well done on the bow spirit Nenad........she looks super 

[NenadM]

Analytic starts

 

Edited March 3, 2015 by Nenad M

[NenadM]

Analytic continues

 

​I am a dummy attorney, know nothing about engineer drawing programs, and must help myself in this way - hand drawing sketch scanned and imported into MSWord, draw some elements by MSWord tools to be more visible, copy this picture in MS Paint and finalize it there saving it as *.jpg ... complicated, but still more simple than to learn PhotoShop, Corel, Auto/ArhiCad or simillar

 

And a question

 

You can notice two undefinied and unknown places

 

That issues are so little in my scale, that I doubt to made them, but I am just curious - what is this ? What is purpose of them

 

 

Next is - analytic of support construction of front panels, and experiments about their size and position

Edited March 3, 2015 by Nenad M

[NenadM]

 ...Don't forget to put the knights heads back on either side of the bowsprit.  Also the eyes for the stays.  Don't put the rails and stuff in place before those eyes. Also you might consider rigging the stays to those eye bolts before continuing to build up the head area.  I wished that I had thought about it. It's going to be a challenge to rig them if the rails and stuff are in place.

 

Marc, did I miss something ?

[SawdustDave]

Just catching up on your Cutty Sark Nenad. You have come a long way since my last visit. She's really looking great. When I see copper plating, I still wince, knowing the labor involved. Very neat work my friend.

[NenadM]

Thank you Dave, but it can not compare with your Mayflower(s) and other models I saw on your web page

Edited March 24, 2015 by Nenad

[SawdustDave]

Much too modest sir.... wish you were close enough to join us in April. Would be honored to meet you.

[NenadM]

Too much miles between Dave ...      

Edited March 24, 2015 by Nenad

[NenadM]

Massproduction ...Telephone line wire









Make smaller ... no sense ... and impossible to me

Edited March 24, 2015 by Nenad

[keelhauled]

hi Nenad,

 

To answer your questions about the bowsprit

 

 

As to any upward pull and weakness of the bowsprit.  i think that if you rig the gammoning as it is on the actual ship you'll be fine.  The downward pull of the gammoning should counter the upward pull of the fore mast stays.  I did this on the plastic bowsprit of the large constitution model in 1988 and the bowsprit has held and has no warping. 

 

Now to your drawing -  I've added letters to help discuss the parts

 

A: I haven't seen this support before on the Cutty.  Have you seen it in other photos?  Can you post an enlargement? Maybe it was used to help deal with the pressure of the gammoning if the stays weren't rigged yet.  I've noticed in some of the photos taken shortly after the restoration, the rigging is sometimes wonky, missing, or not on the plans or older photos and appears to be temporarily supporting yards or other structures.

 

B:  That is a sheave used to haul out the Jib boom. Not sure what they call it on the jib boom. For top mast this is called the top mast rope.  You can find it in the Cutty's upper masts.  It is used to raise the mast or haul out the jib boom.  When the Cutty was in port, they shipped (moved) they opened the hinged jibboom ring © and moved the jib boom back to past the knight heads.  I think that they used the fish tackle attached to the fore mast top.  you can see this in old photos of the cutty at dock.  When they headed to sea they crew pulled the jibbom forward with blocks and tackle attached to the bowsprit cap.

 

C: This is the Jib boom ring.  It is hinged so that it can open to allow the jib boom to be stepped down or up.  (see my drawing). It has a hing on the port side and a clasp/bolt on the starboard side.  On the Cutty, only the top is enclosed.  I think the double rings are used when the bowsprit is also wood.  The Cutty's bowsprit is Iron.

 

D: Gammoning Chain.  this chain counters the pull on the bowsprit by the stays.  If you are going to use it to actually counter the stays make sure that it is tight - Don't break your bowsprit or the stem. - don't go crazy.

 

F: Dolphin striker.  Some photos of the cutty have this as a hook attached to a eyebolt in the cap.

 

G. I couldn't make out what this was.  It looks like a light.  Do you have a better photo?

 

What are you missing?

I didn't see the sheaves for the top mast stays.  These are external unlike the other sheaves (see my drawing and your photo beside E)

 

Not sure about the middle eye on the top of the bowsprit cap.  Where did you see this?

 

So you'll need to rig the fore  top mast stay  to the bolts beside the bowsprit before putting on the rails, etc.  Otherwise you wont' be able do it later.  Same is true for the bowsprit foot ropes where they connect beside the bowsprit

 

The jib boom guys and bowsprit guys are much easier to rig the lines to the eyes off ship and then just slide the eyes into place on the ship, especially if you are using lanyards.  Also do this before the rails are put into place - at least for the bowsprit guys.

 

Bottom line is make sure that you have all of the lines that either originate or terminate around the base of the bowsprit in place before you put the rails and billboards in place.

 

See my comments on the dolphin striker and the number of stays.

 

Hope this helps

Marc

Edited March 4, 2015 by keelhauled

[NenadM]

Thanks Marc, very useful

Here is picture



If you enlarge area near chain, you can see some square structure

Edited March 24, 2015 by Nenad

[keelhauled]

Interesting.  I'm trying to find it in old photos.

I did notice that the restored cutty in your photos has the foot rope attached to eyes on the jib boom ring.  Those eyes are not in old photos, so they must have added it.  Was it originally there instead of beside the bowsprit as it was for the past 50 years? who knows. The fun of history.

 

This photo isn't great but you can see that the eyes aren't there.  The support doesn't look like it is there (could be painted black in the photo).  It isn't on Campells plans or in Longridge's book.

 

I also noticed that the photo you posted show the jib boom guys set up with what look like deadeyes.  Old photos have them set up as hearts and lanyards as does Campbell's plans.  Interesting to see the differences.  No telling what she was actually like back in 1870

 

Edited March 4, 2015 by keelhauled

[rfolsom]

Upon examination,  some of the lower bowsprit stays are chains:  and then again ive notposted in awhile

[NenadM]

....

 

Marc, thank you for your support

 

 

You force me to learn strange language terms to understand your comment, and, ….   to understand what I have to / I am actually, doing … Thank you very much for moving lazy Nenad

 

So, this is for me not to forget meaning of terms with some comments and answers

 

 

 

Gammoning  (The lashing or iron strap by which the Bowsprit is secured to the Stem) - originaly made of chains, on my model it will be of spetialy prepared rope. Wish me luck with this. I tried to make it from very thin iron - dropped very ugly

 

 

Bowsprit support - IT IS actually there. Is it neccessarry ? I do not think so. Is it visible ? I do not think so. In my case, considering too much space I have between bowsprit and stem, I do not think to make it - I think it will be too large and too much visible. So, question was pure academic consideration

 

Bowsprit sheave - it seems that it can be only simulated in my scale, but I am not sure will it look as a sheave or as a scrap and mistake … something to think about

 

Hinged jibboom ring which can be opened - Also thinking will that be visible, and is it possible to make neat, strong enough and in scale to can open. And what is point od this - another thing to think about

 

Dolphin striker - for me - far away for serious consideration, but thanks for pointing it

 

“G” - it really seems to be a light - if you englare some photos, you can see thin thin thin wire roads to it. Definitely not to be made on model. No point if it has to be only 1 mm long

 

           

Sheaves for the top mast stays - yes there are on my drawing, but I can not make sheaves in such a scale, so decided to made them as eyes

 

 

Middle eye on the top of the bowsprit cap - here it is. I enter confusion because I didn't  draw them in scale on my drawing, I draw it only as a remark not to be forgotten later

 

 

 

“… you'll need to rig the fore  top mast stay  to the bolts beside the bowsprit before putting on the rails, etc.  Otherwise you wont' be able do it later.  Same is true for the bowsprit foot ropes where they connect beside the bowsprit … The jib boom guys and bowsprit guys are much easier to rig the lines to the eyes off ship and then just slide the eyes into place on the ship, especially if you are using lanyards.  Also do this before the rails are put into place - at least for the bowsprit guys … Bottom line is make sure that you have all of the lines that either originate or terminate around the base of the bowsprit in place before you put the rails and billboards in place. …"

 

Thanks, I ll keep it in my mind  (I hope to)

 

The fun of history - аh, yes

 

“ … jib boom guys … deadeyes …  … hearts …  lanyards  …. “

 

To understand this, I have to consult wiki and another sources ... and to enrich my dictionary

Edited March 5, 2015 by Nenad

[NenadM]

Just little testing materials and method of making ...





Obviously it is more interesting to play with some tests than to finish roman numbers on stern, to mount eyes and to finish bowsprit rope/chain - hard new word to remember

Line is good, scale is good. Squared batten is made of balsa, and this is not good. All structure is glued on paper with CA, it will be better to glue on very thined veneer. Curve can be better shaped, panel surface maybe will get a bit of putty. Rounded batten has to be a bit more thinner, angle of curve maybe go little higher (1-2 mm) just to meet central batten and upper panel on more easy way. Upper panel will be problem because it is higher positioned it has to be

Edited March 24, 2015 by Nenad

[rfolsom]

You're doing a wonderful job, as usual, my Friend.  I hope to get rid of my bitterness soon and join the real people...

[popeye the sailor]

very nice work on the bow stem decorations........the trail boards will compliment them really good     I've built model ships for many years now......and I still don't know all the terms and names.

[keelhauled]

Looking good!!!