Glory of the Seas 1869 by rwiederrich - FINISHED - 1/96 - medium clipper

[ClipperFan]

I actually have the original glossy photo of Glory near the Glacier Fish dock which I managed to score off e-bay years ago.

By the time this impressive picture was taken, her Goddess figurehead had been removed. It adds to her forlorn situation.

The image courtesy of Michael J Mjelde shows her with her figurehead still in place. All images do reinforce that below the waterline her Hull is practically verticle.

[ClipperFan]

Rare port side of Glory's Grecian Goddess 'Athene' figurehead. From the article on the transformation of McKay's last Clipper to a Salmon Cannery. Here you can see the iron support rod has been relocated from further back and inside the carved naval hood to further up and now outside. The shackle connection is now apparently on both ends of this reinforcing bar. From her dark hair and possible lipstick, it appears some bored sailors sadly "dolled up Athene."

 

[druxey]

It appears that merchant practice in coppering (Muntz as you point out) differed from that used by the navy.

[BANYAN]

Not sure if directly applicable Rob, but WRT the plates, HMCSS Victoria's Contract required the builder to be redock the ship (at their expense) for sheathing after completely fitting out - probably to ensure a very clean bottom on delivery.

 

cheers

 

Pat

[rwiederrich]

2 hours ago, ClipperFan said:

In regards to "Glory of the Seas" on the Ways, I agree that this is most likely not her launch day. More likely as others have described as an Open House to "bring your family to view the latest McKay Clipper" Day. Compare images of the Clipper "Great Republic" launch, where there are hundreds, maybe thousands of people surrounding the massive vessel, with clearly a mere handful of dignitaries on board to the crowds of people on board Glory with only a handful of spectators on the grounds.

As to her yet incomplete coppering process, that too contributes to a sense that this isn't her launch day. Towards the Bow just above the coppered area, there appears to be black felt underlay. Farther back, just behind scaffolding it looks like this material has yet to be applied. My guess is that this particular vessel's launch didn't occur until after the entire underwater Hull had received all her copper plates (actually called yellow metal).

Muntz metal

[Bob Cleek]

The colorized photo appears to be extensively "photoshopped." Note the addition of the ship, warehouse, and hills in the distance, the two men and a woman standing in the center foreground, the fellow carrying a timber halfway up the ramp, the absence of the jackstaff and the supporting pole on the port bow by the anchor. How many differences can you spot? 

 

I guest the colorist took some artistic license with the original photo.

 

 

 

[ClipperFan]

Druxey,

I have no idea about coppering process of either merchant or US Naval ships. It was just my layman's observation that the majority of Glory's Hull is already coppered while she's on the Ways. The forefront of the ship appears to have a dark covering which blurs her strakes, while further back they're visible again. I've read that there was an underlay, kind of like tar fabric which was intended to form an additional barrier between the muntz metal and the underlying wood. 

[ClipperFan]

Here's the original source for the colorized photo of Glory on the Ways. A pipe ad from 1946. This probably came from a Life magazine, which back then was huge (11" x 17") compared to today's much more modest productions.

[druxey]

ClipperFan: the usual underlay (again, for naval vessels) was tarred felt.

[rwiederrich]

4 hours ago, ClipperFan said:

Here's the original source for the colorized photo of Glory on the Ways. A pipe ad from 1946. This probably came from a Life magazine, which back then was huge (11" x 17") compared to today's much more modest productions.

That’s where I’ve seen that.  I saw that when I was a kid. One of the motivating reasons why clippers are my favorite design.

[rwiederrich]

2 hours ago, druxey said:

ClipperFan: the usual underlay (again, for naval vessels) was tarred felt.

Yup

[ClipperFan]

Since McKay's Clippers were often favorably compared to Man O War Naval vessels, it's reasonable that his Shipyard would follow similar construction practices. A contract dispute he had with the US Navy also contributed to his financial woes. During the Civil War, he had contracts to build Naval vessels. During construction the US War Dept, kept continually revising their requirements leading to cost overruns. McKay and some other contractors eventually won their legal battle but it was years later and it was at considerable hardship. 

Another Clipper Captain, possibly Andrew Shewan of the lovely 3 Skysail Yarder 'Norman Court' in his book "The Great Days of Sail" told of Chinese thieves who would secretly strip sheets of metal from the hulls of Tea Clippers as they were anchored waiting to be loaded. Apparently they would use driftwood logs to swim up to the ships at dusk. Then under the cover of darkness they'd pry as many plates free as they could. Tea Clipper Captains would order their sailors to shoot at any 'driftwood' that approached their vessels. Often these sailors would be rewarded with the sight of the flotsam changing direction away from their ships. Still, many a Sea Captain would later discover that their ships were missing random plates after a stay in Chinese Harbors...

[Bob Cleek]

1 hour ago, ClipperFan said:

Since McKay's Clippers were often favorably compared to Man O War Naval vessels, it's reasonable that his Shipyard would follow similar construction practices. A contract dispute he had with the US Navy also contributed to his financial woes. During the Civil War, he had contracts to build Naval vessels. During construction the US War Dept, kept continually revising their requirements leading to cost overruns. McKay and some other contractors eventually won their legal battle but it was years later and it was at considerable hardship. 

Another Clipper Captain, possibly Andrew Shewan of the lovely 3 Skysail Yarder 'Norman Court' in his book "The Great Days of Sail" told of Chinese thieves who would secretly strip sheets of metal from the hulls of Tea Clippers as they were anchored waiting to be loaded. Apparently they would use driftwood logs to swim up to the ships at dusk. Then under the cover of darkness they'd pry as many plates free as they could. Tea Clipper Captains would order their sailors to shoot at any 'driftwood' that approached their vessels. Often these sailors would be rewarded with the sight of the flotsam changing direction away from their ships. Still, many a Sea Captain would later discover that their ships were missing random plates after a stay in Chinese Harbors...

It sounds like Chinese pirates weren't much different in the real clipper ship days than they are in the clipper ship model days.

 

[ClipperFan]

Rob,

Draft of "GLORY of the SEAS" is basically done. Still, my artist's eye tells me that, while all "specs" line up, the drawing just doesn't seem to accurately capture the graceful "feel" of this lovely vessel as portrayed in the 1907 San Pedro dockside photo. Not having a complete underwater Hull, I had to estimate and now that she's complete, it looks like I may have made the Hull just a little too deep. Meanwhile, the Stern looks a little high compared to the Bow. Let me know what you think....

It's damn difficult to capture sharp details at this scale, since it's necessary to take pics from a good distance to get the entire image. Both the 1907 photo and sketch had to be laid flat on the floor to minimize distortion. As I said before, each ledger page is 11" × 17", 3 laid out together equal 41". The 4 sketch pages are roughly equivalent.

[Keith Black]

I don't why (optical illusion) but the hull length looks stubby compared to the hull depth? 

[Roger Pellett]

The “coppering” is most likely the artist’s representation of red lead paint. Note that does not extend all the to the load waterline; only as far as the ship would be expected to float light. In addition to Bob Cleek’s reasons above,  The copper sheathing would be damaged during launch.  For launch,  the ship is supported on the ways by two supports, one in the bow and one in the stern called poppets.  If the naval architect has done his job properly the stern will lift off the ways as it enters the water and gains buoyancy.  This means that the bow must rotate about the fore poppet.  While the fore poppet is designed to crush when the bow rotates, some rubbing between the ship and poppet would be unavoidable.

 

Roger

[Bob Cleek]

Perhaps apropos of not too awfully much, or possibly of interest: General Admiral, Russian Imperial Navy, 1858. Designed and built by William H. Webb. 

 

 

 

 

[druxey]

Don't make the assumption that she's on an even keel in the photo: that will affect apparent relative levels of bow and stern.

[ClipperFan]

Keith Black,

I have to double check my dimensions one more time, as I wrote, the Hull depth is a guesstimate and it looks like I made the Hull just a little too deep. The sheer just doesn't quite look right either, especially if it's compared to the San Francisco image where you can clearly see her quite graceful curving sheer. The Hull gradually curves down to the front of the Main Shrouds, appears to level a short distance after that and gently rises up the the Stern, which is noticeably lower than the Bow. 

My latest attempt just doesn't seem to fully capture those elements. One particular element I did finally appear to capture is the Bow rake, naval hoods and figurehead. Oh well, as they say... back to the drawing board.

[ClipperFan]

From "Some Famous Sailing Ships and their Builder Donald McKay" is an authentic Builder's Model of 'Stag Hound' Donald McKay's first Extreme Clipper Ship built in 1850. Cornelius McKay states that he built this particular Half Hull Model personally, taking offsets directly from the Molding Loft as the actual vessel herself was being built. He admits that there may be a few other 'fancy' models around but that all of the authentic Builder's Models have been lost.

One fascinating aspect I've noticed when viewing McKay's own work is that the length to depth ratios of his works, especially his Clipper Ship Hulls is very reminiscent of... Canoes. 

[ClipperFan]

Druxey

Good point! I think Glory may be just slightly Bow down, which would naturally make the Stern a little higher. I think I have to not follow this so slavishly and go back to utilizing all views in order to more accurately capture the true beauty of this vessel.

[ClipperFan]

In further efforts to locate as of yet unseen images of "Glory of the Seas" I found another image of her Bow, the same one from 1900 but this allowed me to do a compressed jpeg file, which yielded a larger, more clear picture.

The other Clipper is a Starboard view of William Webb's most famous Clipper "Young America." This particular scene I've never seen before. It clearly shows her unique trailboard of a seated Lady Liberty resting between two furled American flags at her Starboard Bow. Her Port Bow had an entirely different trailboard design. I just thought you guys might appreciate seeing these.

[Tony Hunt]

Fabulous images. Detail to die for in that first one, especially.

 

It almost looks like it has lost one of the panels of scrollwork on the cutwater of the bow. There seems to be a gap that doesn't look right.

[druxey]

I think that you are correct, Tony. Great image for detail, though!

[ClipperFan]

Unfortunately, her beautiful, elegantly carved scrollwork on her Cutwater arch has been all but washed away by decades at sea. Glory's carved naval hoods however remain intact. As eerily described in the contemporary newspaper article about the sad loss of the beautiful S Boston female model who posed for her figurehead, the Grecian Goddess Athene is missing her entire right arm up to her shoulder. Still, there is a serene loveliness to her which is unmistakable. Glory's Bow still has an imposing beauty to her, as well. 

[rwiederrich]

Well I'm now home from vacation and all caught up...hopefully I will be working on the Glory hull very soon.  I'll need to cut and install all the internal bracing blocks next.

 

Rob

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

On 9/11/2020 at 12:57 AM, ClipperFan said:

In further efforts to locate as of yet unseen images of "Glory of the Seas" I found another image of her Bow, the same one from 1900 but this allowed me to do a compressed jpeg file, which yielded a larger, more clear picture.

The other Clipper is a Starboard view of William Webb's most famous Clipper "Young America." This particular scene I've never seen before. It clearly shows her unique trailboard of a seated Lady Liberty resting between two furled American flags at her Starboard Bow. Her Port Bow had an entirely different trailboard design. I just thought you guys might appreciate seeing these.

her bow is so beautiful isnt it .  

[ClipperFan]

Vladimir_Wairoa

I agree entirely. She must have been quite a spectacle when first launched. Her dazzling white lovely figurehead, perched serenely atop shimmering gold leaf carving, contrasted by cabinet smooth freshly painted black siding with glimmering yellow gold metal below. 

She was huge too. Her Depth of Hull was 28'6", 3 decks with 8'2" of height for the two lower decks, 140' long at the Keel, 165' length from Taffrail to Knightheads, 44' width. At her Starboardside Docking Port, I've been able to count 9 strakes below, 4 besides and another 7 above. Using 1' for each strake puts her height above the waterline as 20 feet, with approximately 7' Sidewalls above her Main Deck. Now take into account that her highest portion of Hull is clearly at the Bow and it was about 7 feet higher still, as her Sheer is reported to be 7 feet, you get a vessel that is about 34' above the Waterline. Even without her towering masts, she must have been a truly impressive sight!

[ClipperFan]

As promised, I've gone "back to the drawing board" to recapture the feel of "Glory of the Seas." This is a small sketch, based on the San Francisco dockside photo. Much smaller than the others. However this feels right when compared both to that image and the other broadside one. The masts are all arrow straight, the curve is actually in the paper itself. For this sketch, since I was so slavish on trying to reproduce precise dimensions, in the large work and completely lost the feel of the vessel, I completely abandoned that approach and just did this by eyeball. It just looks right to me. Now I need to reconcile this with her known dimensions.

I went back and used a ruler to hold down the upper edge. As you can see, this is 8 1/2" wide by 5 1/2" deep, as it's a regular sized paper folded in 1/2.

[rwiederrich]

Beautiful for sure