Flying Fish by gak1965 - FINISHED - Model Shipways - 1:96

[gak1965]

Just a bit of an update. I've started constructing the after deck house. Rather than building it separately and mounting it on the coaming, I'm going to build the house in situ. There are two reasons for this. First, the house (and hence the coaming) is not straight, but rather narrows toward the stern in a curve that I bent into the coamings - so, putting it together separately would be difficult. The second issue is dealing with the overhang that I've mentioned before. So, build on site it is.

 

Step 1 is to install the main deck coaming and then to install a set of, for lack of a better term, stanchions that define the boundaries of the coaming and hence the house. 

 

In addition, I added 4 uprights between the main deck and the poop to provide a place to mount the planks that will define the bulkheads that run only from the main deck coaming to the poop deck. Two are mounted directly against the bulwarks, and two are just amidship of each fo the poop deck coamings, as the higher segment matches up with the coaming on the poop (photo of the uprights and then a segment of the plans that describe what I mean).

 

 

So, the planks were pre-painted white and then installed as below:

 

 

Now, the main part of the deckhouse (the part that will be mounted on the other uprights) is relatively low, and has a set of 6 windows with bars on the port and starboard sides:

 

 

This is about 3  1/16 planks wide, so I made a set 3 wide, and then overlaid them on the plans, marking them for the vertical details and the location of the windows:

 

 

Now mask away:

 

 

And paint blue where the windows will sit. I then used 1/32 square planking (pre-painted white) to make a window frame, and then embedded brass wire to make the window bars. Here's the first one:

 

 

 

And now three:

 

Once finished, I will mount on the coaming, add the vertical details, and then slice off any remaining upright with a dremel cutting blade. Then the deckhouse will be topped off with a 1/16 square plank that will be flush with the vertical detail planks, and we can move to the central section that runs from the main deck. 

 

In order to make it look right, I think I'm going to have to add another coaming section on the main deck so that the bulkhead planks have something to land on (there is no room going straight down, but that should not be a huge problem.

 

Thanks again for looking in and the likes!

 

Regards,

George K

 

 

 

 

[ClipperFan]

George K, while it won't give the same impression as seeing a comparison of real vessels side by side, once Rob completes his 1:96 scale "GLORY of the SEAS" replica, she can be placed next to his completed 1:96 scale "Cutty Sark."

Few people today realize how gargantuan Donald McKay's Clippers really were. For instance, "Cutty Sark's" keel was 203' while Glory's was 240'! While it may not sound like much, Glory's keel was 15% longer than Cutty's. Both of these vessels were launched in the same year too, 1869.

One of the things that stunned the British Shipping Community was the towering sizes of American built Clippers. I'm sure Glory would have dwarfed Cutty and "Flying Fish" would still probably be larger too.

[rwiederrich]

George...I appreciate your use of thin copper wire to replicate the bars on the windows.  I contemplated that for the bars on my Glory skylights, but opted to keep it clean and prevent any unrealistic and out of scale mishaps.  As time goes by, and if I some how I ingeniously fabricate something to replicate these brass *cages*, I might consider adding the detail.

 

Your build is coming along so very nicely.  It is refreshing to see another McKay clipper coming down the ways.

 

Rob

 

 

 

[ClipperFan]

9 hours ago, gak1965 said:

Just a bit of an update. I've started constructing the after deck house. Rather than building it separately and mounting it on the coaming, I'm going to build the house in situ. There are two reasons for this. First, the house (and hence the coaming) is not straight, but rather narrows toward the stern in a curve that I bent into the coamings - so, putting it together separately would be difficult. The second issue is dealing with the overhang that I've mentioned before. So, build on site it is.

 

Step 1 is to install the main deck coaming and then to install a set of, for lack of a better term, stanchions that define the boundaries of the coaming and hence the house. 

 

In addition, I added 4 uprights between the main deck and the poop to provide a place to mount the planks that will define the bulkheads that run only from the main deck coaming to the poop deck. Two are mounted directly against the bulwarks, and two are just amidship of each fo the poop deck coamings, as the higher segment matches up with the coaming on the poop (photo of the uprights and then a segment of the plans that describe what I mean).

 

 

So, the planks were pre-painted white and then installed as below:

 

 

Now, the main part of the deckhouse (the part that will be mounted on the other uprights) is relatively low, and has a set of 6 windows with bars on the port and starboard sides:

 

 

This is about 3  1/16 planks wide, so I made a set 3 wide, and then overlaid them on the plans, marking them for the vertical details and the location of the windows:

 

 

Now mask away:

 

 

And paint blue where the windows will sit. I then used 1/32 square planking (pre-painted white) to make a window frame, and then embedded brass wire to make the window bars. Here's the first one:

 

 

 

And now three:

 

Once finished, I will mount on the coaming, add the vertical details, and then slice off any remaining upright with a dremel cutting blade. Then the deckhouse will be topped off with a 1/16 square plank that will be flush with the vertical detail planks, and we can move to the central section that runs from the main deck. 

 

In order to make it look right, I think I'm going to have to add another coaming section on the main deck so that the bulkhead planks have something to land on (there is no room going straight down, but that should not be a huge problem.

 

Thanks again for looking in and the likes!

 

Regards,

George K

 

 

 

 

George K, that's very impressive work. I especially appreciate the fact that you're following the authentic vessel by narrowing the rear house as it approaches the stern. The one significant revision I would encourage you to make, is to adopt the more ornate front fascia as depicted in the Buttersworth painting. Narrow oblong windows make sense on sides but not in front. There also seems to be a little bit of a sculptural aspect to the twin front facing windows. 

Now that we've had a chance to view how ornate McKay's Clippers really were from seeing actual pictures of the front fascia of Glory's rear house, the plans for "Flying Fish" look sparse indeed.

[gak1965]

5 hours ago, rwiederrich said:

George...I appreciate your use of thin copper wire to replicate the bars on the windows.  I contemplated that for the bars on my Glory skylights, but opted to keep it clean and prevent any unrealistic and out of scale mishaps.  As time goes by, and if I some how I ingeniously fabricate something to replicate these brass *cages*, I might consider adding the detail.

 

Your build is coming along so very nicely.  It is refreshing to see another McKay clipper coming down the ways.

 

Rob

Yeah, the wire is 24 guage and so corresponds to 1.9 inches at scale. It's definitely too big. I'd need to go to 36 guage to be the proper size and I'm not convinced they would be visible at that size (it's about 0.1 mm diameter, a fifth of 24 guage).

 

I only put in 5 bars per window which would probably have been a problem on the real ship in terms of providing protection with what I imagine are only about 1/2 inch wide bars on a window that large. However, it gives a nice hint of the detail without being overly intrusive, so it seemed.to make sense.

 

I thought about painting them in with a fine tip paint pen, but the paint pen would have made a wider line, so out with that.

 

George

[mbp521]

George,

 

Nice work on the cabin and windows. what a unique approach to building the cabin. I have to be honest, when I got to this point I cheated a bit. I couldn't find a wire small enough to work with that looked right so instead I just printed the lines on a piece of card stock and glued it to the inside of the walls. It had the right effect, but I was only able to get five bars in the windows as well. Your version is better though, it gives it some dimension. I also used the card stock and some craft scissors to make the detail trim along the top. It didn't quite match up with the plans design, but I thought it was pretty close.

 

-Brian

[gak1965]

5 hours ago, mbp521 said:

George,

 

Nice work on the cabin and windows. what a unique approach to building the cabin. I have to be honest, when I got to this point I cheated a bit. I couldn't find a wire small enough to work with that looked right so instead I just printed the lines on a piece of card stock and glued it to the inside of the walls. It had the right effect, but I was only able to get five bars in the windows as well. Your version is better though, it gives it some dimension. I also used the card stock and some craft scissors to make the detail trim along the top. It didn't quite match up with the plans design, but I thought it was pretty close.

 

-Brian

I like the idea of the card stock for the detail under the roof. I had looked at metallic tape that was fluted, on the logic that I could paint it and it would self adhere. That may yet be the strategy, check back in a week. 

 

And the unique way if building the cabin may yet turn out to be the stupid way 😃. Only one way to find out...

Edited October 5, 2021 by gak1965

[gak1965]

Progress has been made on the cabin and other parts of the ship. First, I constructed and mounted the catheads:

 

I did put a copper star on each cathead, made out of extra copper tape. It was unbelievable how long it took to cut out a star that small that I could manipulate, but it's done. I still have to make and mount the anchor release, a couple of eyebolts, and there is a drilled hole inboard for a bit of 'iron' wire, but I'll deal with that later. 

 

As of my last post I had bulkheads of the poop cabin, and was putting on window frames and bars. That was completed for both sides, and then mounted on the framework I erected on the coaming. I then cut pre-painted wood strips to represent the vertical planks on the bulkheads between the windows and mounted them on the bulkheads, and mounted a another plank that runs the length of the cabin and formed the outer edge of the cabin and the overhang. I took another section of pre-painted and used them to create the bottom of the overhang, which would then be used to mount one end of the deck planks over the poop cabin. I needed to be able to allow the mizzen mast to pass through the deck, while still having something for the deck planking to rest upon in the center section of the ship, so I put two beams in place to ensure that the planks had somewhere to sit. Finally, I put another set of planks around the outer edge to form the boundaries of the deck planks. You can see what I mean in the photo below. One thing I noticed after the fact is that the two beams that are there to provide something for the center planks to sit on are crooked in the horizontal plane. I was more concerned with their alignment in the vertical, and so it looks kind of odd, but didn't have any real impact in the end. The cutout in the stern is for the companionway, and the two small pieces on the deck are going to be the doors to the storage areas that will fit on the forward part, next to the cabin.

 

 

I then started putting in the deck planks, beginning from the center and working outward so that it would be as symmetrical as possible. I had a bunch of planks from the main deck that were stained at the same time and I resolved to use them. Planking went fairly smoothly:

 

 

One thing I had not realized was that the deck planks were thicker than I had recalled, so that they stuck out above the white painted edge more than I wanted, so I added another layer of pre-painted edge trim.

 

 

 

I have not yet closed out the cabin, as can be seen here:

 

 

I've built the base of the front of the cabin, but before I install it, I'm going to put the window, the doors and the decorative planks, and then just slide it into place. The two doors from earlier will go in the planked up area on either side of the cabin (as in the diagram below), and then I'll need to make the two knees that support the overhang (and the iron rail, and the skylights, and the companionway, and the rest of the deck furniture, and, and, and...)

 

 

 

This is what it looks like slid into place with out the 

 

 

So, here is what the Fish looks like now, with the cabin front slid into place, but without the decorations or being glued.

 

 

Much still to do. As always, thanks for the likes and looking in!

 

Regards,

George K

Edited October 18, 2021 by gak1965

[rwiederrich]

Its amazing how similar many of McKay's clippers deck houses and furniture looked...the recessed carriage house is a good example of this carried over design to many of his famous clippers.

 

You are doing a great job...she is really coming together.

 

Rob

[gak1965]

 

1 hour ago, rwiederrich said:

Its amazing how similar many of McKay's clippers deck houses and furniture looked...the recessed carriage house is a good example of this carried over design to many of his famous clippers.

 

You are doing a great job...she is really coming together.

 

Rob

 

Thanks! I guess the recessed carriage house just worked (lots of light from the skylight and the high ports, entrances to both the poop and the main deck, while not badly disrupting the flow of people) so no reason to make a change. I don't know if McKay was the first to use it, but Samuel Pook also used the same design in Red Jacket in 1853...

[gak1965]

Question. Does anyone have any idea about the diameter of the frame vent pipes? If they are an inch or less, getting thin enough wire to keep them from being hulking might be an issue. Jared made a set of nicely identical vents for his Flying Fish; I'm just trying to decide if they are going to be an enhancement or a distraction, particularly if the scale is off (and the 24 guage wire I used in the window bars is almost 2 inches at scale).

 

Thanks,

George

[mbp521]

George, 

 

It has been about eight years ago since I built this part of my Flying Fish, but if memory serves me correctly, I used 24ga brass wire for my vent pipes and they don't look too far out of scale. What I do remember is how much of a pain they were to install since I didn't put them in until after I built the toprail. At least I put them in before the pinrails.

 

Here are a couple of old pictures from the build that may help. 

 

 

 

-Brian

[ClipperFan]

8 hours ago, gak1965 said:

 

 

Thanks! I guess the recessed carriage house just worked (lots of light from the skylight and the high ports, entrances to both the poop and the main deck, while not badly disrupting the flow of people) so no reason to make a change. I don't know if McKay was the first to use it, but Samuel Pook also used the same design in Red Jacket in 1853...

George beautifully impressive work on "Flying Fish" Rear Carriage House. I really appreciate the internal strengthening beams to support the Mizzen Mast mounting structure. A suggestion I have is to follow the dual arched windows located near the outer support brackets, as illustrated in the Buttersworth oil. It's more similar to actual photos of this facade we've seen in Glory then the more simplistic one in your plans. If you look at Michael Mjelde's illustration too, you'll see that for Glory, there were a series of arches which highlighted the ornateness of this house. If you want to get an idea of what a nice touch this is, just look at how the treatment of these facades really emphasize the beauty of Rob and Vladimir's vessels. I suspect this would have been a hallmark of all of McKay's Clipper Ships.

[gak1965]

Well, I completed the forward bulkhead of the carriage house. As you can see, I ultimately chose to go with the simpler version shown in the plans rather than the version seen in the Butterfield painting. More on that anon. The doors are 1/16" thick basswood that I incised to create a set of three raised panels to provide some surface interest, and I used 1/32" square plank to make the jambs and lintel. The vertical panels on the outer edges are joined to similar panels at right angles to cover the joints. The window (to the first mate's cabin according to the plans) is a brittania casting with three wooden slats to make a sliding shutter with the underlying area painted blue.

 

 

Another view, looking at the whole ship:

 

 

Again, more to do, on the ceiling (e.g. the railings, the pad around the mizzen mast, the skylight, etc.), the access hatch on the aft side, hinges and mounts for the two stores compartments, etc., etc., etc.

 

One could reasonably ask why I chose this option, rather than follow the Butterworth painting. Not that I feel like I need to justify the decision, but I thought I would at least explain the reasoning. I view the plans and the Butterworth painting as two bits of evidence in the broader question of "what exactly did the ship look like." Flying Fish had a short career, being lost after only 7 years, so probably didn't change (unlike, say Glory of the Seas) but there are no photos. The plans represent Ben Lankford's best assessment of what the ship looked like and (I suppose) that could be built by a moderately skilled modeler. He is an expert in this space and used the best information that he had available to him. With that said, the plans were updated at least once so he is certainly not infallible. Similarly, the Butterworth painting takes some license, for example, the shrouds and backstays do not have deadeyes in the painting, and if there is one thing that gets people worked up regarding paintings of ships, it's the location and number of windows (c.f. scads of arguments about the stern of the USS Constitution at various times).

 

At the end of the day, I decided to go with Ben Lankford's assessment, and my own nagging thought that large, seemingly unprotected glass windows on a sailing vessel of the 1850's didn't make a ton of sense. Glass was expensive, and fragile, ships go through storms, things get blown around, small windows need to be protected by bars, it just seemed like a recipe for disaster. From personal experience I've seen modern, round portholes get blown in by waves in relative minor storms (on the SS Rotterdam during a storm with 70 knot winds and 40 foot seas during my honeymoon). Tougher borosilicate glass wasn't even invented until the 1884. So - one smaller rather than two more elaborate windows. Others could well come to a different conclusion.

 

Regardless, I am grateful for everyone that has provided the input to make this choice, and I look forward to getting additional input as other decisions about the ship continue. So once again, thank you for your support, likes, and for looking in.

[gak1965]

Deck furniture continues. The booby hatch is built and mounted. A couple of quick views off the ship, with capstan bars in place:

 

and in situ on the ship.

 

 

I've ordered a baseboard, it's getting to the point where I want to get it on the board before I do too much else as I don't want to have to turn it over to drill the holes for the pedestals once anything truly fragile is on the deck.

 

As always, thanks for looking in and the likes.

 

Regards,

George K

[ClipperFan]

George K, nice job on the  companion. It always amazes me how tight tolerances are on these vessels. Exiting this structure you have to careful not to run into the doors in front of the Rear House.

[gak1965]

A brief update to describe progress in the last several days. If you looked at some of the earlier pictures, I had started putting the covers on the main cargo hatch, and had recently realized that I hadn't built up the entry way enough from the coaming. So, I added the additional vertical supports, made the hatch covers and attached the lifting rings. The latter were made from some leftover split rings and small eyebolts from my Niagara. 

 

 

That complete, I started on additional deck furniture moving forward. As with the carriage house, I've decided to build it in situ rather than making a separate piece and mounting it on the deck (as I did with the booby hatch). For some reason, I like the latter better. As before, step 1 is to set up a set of internal frames that are going to support the bulkheads (some of them visible in the photo above, and then to build and prepaint the bulkheads themselves. 

 

 

As with the carriage house, the area under the ports is painted located, masked, and painted blue. The sliding port covers (a mix of wood and a Britannia casting) have received one coat of paint, they can be mounted over the painted regions seen below once they have a second. Here are the masked bulkheads, and with the port areas painted on:

 

 

In the latter, the sections are (clockwise from top) port, forward, starboard, aft (both the fore and aft have down facing right, whereas the P/S pair have "down" facing in. As with the carriage house, once the bulkheads are in place, I'll add pre-painted decorative trim, and then the overhead.

 

While that is going on, I've also started on the water closets, which will also be built in situ. In this long shot, you can see the cargo hold, the framed up cabin, and the coamings for the WC. Neither are yet glued into place, hence the port side one is a bit out of kilter.

 

 

 

Finally, I received a beautiful cherry baseboard from BlueJacket today. Once it is properly finished and the cabin and WC's are in place, it will be time to transfer from my building frame to the base board. I have three brass pedestals (also from BlueJacket) that should allow it to have a nice solid, stance on the board as it becomes time to put on the final rails and start the various spars.

 

 

The photo doesn't really do the base board justice, it's a really nice piece of cherry with lovely grain. When I do mount the ship I think I'm going to wrap it in saran so that it's protected from drips and the like.

 

As always, thanks for looking in and the likes.

 

Regards,

George K

 

[ClipperFan]

George K, I always appreciate it when modelers share their fascinating building techniques. There certainly appears to be some distinct advantages to your approach of building all the furniture on your model "in Situ". For one you'll be able to fit everything without surprises and should be able to more accurately keep everything to scale. 

Your choice of elegant cherrywood board with brass pedestals will definitely highlight your model nicely.

[gak1965]

Well, the main cabin is in place. As I mentioned earlier, I built it in situ rather than building it separate and installing on the deck. You saw in the earlier post how I built up the cabin bulkheads. Before installing the bulkheads, I put the port frames with the sliding covers in place, then mounted the bulkheads on the frames, and then added the decorative elements using pre-painted or pre-cut wood. For the sliding doors, I cut wood of the correct size, incised the panel marks and then painted them. The knob is a nail cut off near the head, and the door frames are mad from pre-painted 1/32 square stock painted white. I generally built up an entire door and frame first (so door, left jamb, lintel and right jamb) and mounted them as a unit. A 1/16 x 3/32 piece of boxwood, prepainted white was used to make the upper level of the decorative trim (with the 1/16 facing out), and then a 1/16 by 1/8 frame was placed on top to mark where the ceiling would be installed. The ceiling is the same 1/16 square stock I stained for the deck months ago. The progression is shown below:

 

 

 

 

So, two images of the ship showing the situation as it currently stands in a slightly broader view. You will notice that I have also completed the forward cargo hatch, and mounted the water closet coaming and will start building those soon.

 

 

Because I am getting near to this point, I have a couple of issues that I want to bring up. As has been said a number of times, the castings for this kit are really awful. Fortunately the pump is not bad, but I have a suspicion that I'm going to replace a bunch of the castings, including the capstans, fife rails, and the figurehead. Just for reference, here are the capstans, water tank and the figure head. The capstans don't look too bad, but the tops are a mess. The water tank is genuinely horrible and the figure head is, I don't know ho to even say it. 

 

 

I was able to get some replacement capstans from Bluejacket (see below), but I'm afraid I'm going to have to try to carve a fish, and replace the water tank.

 

With regards to the water tank, does anyone know if the tank was iron or wood? I could see reasons for either, but just don't know - if it's wood I'll probably paint it buff or brown, if iron black, and mount it in the blue of the coamings either way, I just don't know. Also, there is a ladder on the after side of the deck house, does anyone know if they would have been wood or iron in 1854? I have some nice scale lumber from Midwest that would make a good wooden ladder but I guess I'll try to make it out of brass strip if it was iron. 

 

As always, thanks for looking in and for all of the likes!

 

Regards,

George K

 

[BobG]

Gosh, George, it's a bummer that those metal parts are are such a mess. Unfortunately, that's not uncommon with far too many kits especially the older ones that have been around a while and haven't been updated. You're doing such a nice job on everything else so I hope you'll find a solution that's acceptable to you. Good luck! 

 

[ClipperFan]

George,

I found this tracing of McKay's original "Flying Fish" plan from a Museum in Norway. I've also included a sketch idea for more realistic flying fish figurehead. If you look at the images of "GLORY of the SEAS" you'll see that in addition to the stem in the illustration (typically all that's included in these ship's plans) there's a cutwater with naval hoods overlapping just above. The figurehead usually mounts to the tip of the cutwater just below the naval hoods, which are substantial devices incorporated into McKay Clipper Ship Bows. This structure, which McKay jealously guarded was most likely reinforcements to endure tough battery of Cape Horn seas, some of the mightiest on the planet. 

Unfortunately neither cutwaters nor naval hoods are incorporated in any McKay models: "Flying Cloud", "Sovereign of the Seas" and "Flying Fish" none include these fascinating nautical components in their model kits. I will do an illustration of how "Flying Fish" would have most likely appeared with a complete bow. Since she wasn't much different in construction than "Flying Cloud" it's very likely her prow was quite similar. You can decide what, if anything you want to use of this information.

 

Edited November 11, 2021 by ClipperFan
additional information

[ClipperFan]

George,

Here's a quick sketch of how McKay's Clipper "Flying Fish" would most likely have appeared with her naval hoods and cutwaters installed and  more realistic carved lifelike flying fish figurehead. You can easily see how more ornate and elegant this prow looks in comparison to the sort of pathetic bare stem with tacked on figurehead of the kit. As I mentioned earlier, Boston Daily Atlas publicist Duncan MacLean commented how this rugged arrangement would be able to endure the most damaging waves of the toughest seas and remain mainly intact.

[gak1965]

1 hour ago, ClipperFan said:

George,

Here's a quick sketch of how McKay's Clipper "Flying Fish" would most likely have appeared with her naval hoods and cutwaters installed and  more realistic carved lifelike flying fish figurehead. You can easily see how more ornate and elegant this prow looks in comparison to the sort of pathetic bare stem with tacked on figurehead of the kit. As I mentioned earlier, Boston Daily Atlas publicist Duncan MacLean commented how this rugged arrangement would be able to endure the most damaging waves of the toughest seas and remain mainly intact.

 

 

Adding these parts seems eminently doable. All of the other examples I have seen tended to have decorated cutwaters, is there any indication how the Fish was set up?

 

That is a much nicer flying fish, it's a good model to try to carve something. Way better than the pretty pathetic figurehead castings that came with the kit

Edited November 12, 2021 by gak1965

[gak1965]

@ClipperFan or anyone else that knows. Following up on your previous post, I'm a bit unclear about how the cutwaters and naval hoods fit into the scheme of the stem. So here is a section of the plans that shows the stem.

 

 

Apologies in advance - I'm not an artist, but do the cutwaters and naval hood simply brace the stem (making it thicker but not longer) as below:

 

 

or do they brace and extend the stem as in the below:

 

 

And if the latter, i assume that the void that is under the extension is filled?

 

Or is the issue that the stem as drawn is too short, and needs to be extended and reinforced by the cutwaters and naval hoods?

 

 

[ClipperFan]

3 hours ago, gak1965 said:

@ClipperFan or anyone else that knows. Following up on your previous post, I'm a bit unclear about how the cutwaters and naval hoods fit into the scheme of the stem. So here is a section of the plans that shows the stem.

 

 

Apologies in advance - I'm not an artist, but do the cutwaters and naval hood simply brace the stem (making it thicker but not longer) as below:

 

 

or do they brace and extend the stem as in the below:

 

 

And if the latter, i assume that the void that is under the extension is filled?

 

Or is the issue that the stem as drawn is too short, and needs to be extended and reinforced by the cutwaters and naval hoods?

 

 

George, the Cutwater attaches to the Stem and definitely extends the prow outwards considerably. The Naval Hoods mount directly to the Bow of the Hull and taper to a point a little further out and terminate just above the Cutwater. In the case of Glory, as seen from a 1900s view of her figurehead and Bow, both devices end just about the rear edge of Bowsprit iron band #3. There's actually a 4th band #2 but it ties both the inner Jibboom and Bowsprit together. Distance from the Hull to band #1 is 18", then each band is 3' apart, which makes the Naval Hoods about 7 & 1/2' outwards. Since "Flying Fish" has an 18' inboard Bowsprit vs Glory's 24' one, to keep proportions similar I divided 7 & 1/2' by 24' to get a ratio of .3125 (just under a third of the Bowsprit length, as can be seen in the Broadside of Glory's Bow close up, courtesy of Michael Mjelde). Multiplying that ratio times 18' results in 5.625 or 5' 7 & 1/2". That would put the Fish's Naval Hoods just 10" beyond  3" wide iron band #2 (18" to band #1, then 3' between bands #1 and #2 for a total of 4 & 1/2' then 13" beyond to get 5' 7 & 1/2". 

Edited November 13, 2021 by ClipperFan
math correction, sigh

[Jared]

I agree with your comments on the metal castings.  I debated whether or not to use the fife rails.  In the end I did.  They are pretty soft and the hole all had to be carefully drilled out.  I nearly have it all mounted.  Fitting the bilge pump required bending the metal.  

[ClipperFan]

7 hours ago, ClipperFan said:

George, the Cutwater attaches to the Stem and definitely extends the prow outwards considerably. The Naval Hoods mount directly to the Bow of the Hull and taper to a point a little further out and terminate just above the Cutwater. In the case of Glory, as seen from a 1900s view of her figurehead and Bow, both devices end just about the rear edge of Bowsprit iron band #3. There's actually a 4th band #2 but it ties both the inner Jibboom and Bowsprit together. Distance from the Hull to band #1 is 18", then each band is 3' apart, which makes the Naval Hoods about 7 & 1/2' outwards. Since "Flying Fish" has an 18' inboard Bowsprit vs Glory's 24' one, to keep proportions similar I divided 7 & 1/2' by 24' to get a ratio of .3125 (just under a third of the Bowsprit length, as can be seen in the Broadside of Glory's Bow close up, courtesy of Michael Mjelde). Multiplying that ratio times 18' results in 5.625 or 5' 7 & 1/2". That would put the Fish's Naval Hoods just 10" beyond  3" wide iron band #2 (18" to band #1, then 3' between bands #1 and #2 for a total of 4 & 1/2' then 13" beyond to get 5' 7 & 1/2". 

George, sometimes these calculations can get real "wonky". I really doubt these nautical elements were down to 1/2"s, I'm just trying to keep the ratio as close as realistically possible.

To answer your concern about possible gaps in the prow construction, I can assure you that there aren't any. While the Naval Hoods look imposing, they're actually almost an extension of the ship's Hull and they follow the contours precisely. Meanwhile the Cutwater is sandwiched between both Naval Hoods and attaches to the Stem as an extension. You can see that while the ornamental components have almost all washed away, the component itself is completely intact. Rob said he used very thin metal to fabricate the Naval Hoods on his Glory model. I'm sure he'll be glad to give you more details on his process.

[ClipperFan]

On 11/13/2021 at 12:52 PM, ClipperFan said:

George, the Cutwater attaches to the Stem and as best as I can tell is sandwiched between the thin Naval Hoods. Both extend the prow outwards roughly 6' from the upper level of the Bow. Naval Hoods are rugged but surprisingly thin. As the end at the Bow the literally hug it, so that there's no difference between them. Exiting the Prow the straighten out to form a verticle joint to support the Bowsprit above and form an attachment for Figurehead below. To help you visualize how these devices come together, I've done another sketch, copying the contours of "Flying Fish" from the Norway print, as it's supposed to have been traced directly from McKay's own hand.

The Cutwater is a bit too short, and flying fish figurehead a bit too big. I left the Stem visible so you can see all 3 nautical devices. Part of the Cutwater can't be seen because it follows the lines of the Naval Hoods above. 

 

[gak1965]

Okay, continuing with the deck furniture before tackling the cutwaters, naval hoods, and (yeek) trying to carve a figurehead. I've finished the water closet/storage/belowdeck entry structures forward (I'm sure there is a proper name and hopefully someone will be able to provide it). As with most of structures, I built them in place, using 1/8 square stock to make two of the corners defined by the coaming. I also mounted two small bits of scrap against the bulwarks to anchor the outer edges of the bulkheads. The bulkheads were built up, painted, and then trimmed to fit in the locations as required, and I built some corner fascia using 3/32 square stock that sanded to shape with my dremel.

 

 

The hatches were all premade, excising bits with an Exacto knife to make the panels. Each hatch used 1/32 square stock to make the jambs and the lintels, and then the whole hatch unit was installed. The capstan bars were made from 1/32 square stock, embedded into their racks, and the racks mounted on the forward side (although they are next to impossible to see). The ceilings were made from 1/16 square stock (the same stock I stained for the deck months ago), joined, shaped and then glued into place (I'm holding the starboard side one down to let the glue cure in the upper photo).

 

So, a couple of views of the completed units:

 

While I realize that this is probably inauthentic, I couldn't help myself make the following for the hatches to the water closets:

 

 

Childish, I know, but you need to have some fun in life.

 

So this is what the ship looks like overall now from the stern. I've also mounted the rear hatches to the carriage house (for some reason I hadn't done so yet).

 

 

So, I have one more hatch to make, and then I pretty much need to get this thing on its display board because it won't be much longer before I no longer want to set this upside down. I used wipe only poly for the cherry base board, which now looks fabulous, so that is done, however, a couple of questions to folks out there. I have three nice brass pedestals from BlueJacket, but they have very deep slots, so without some kind of change, there will be a gap between the keel and the bottom of the slot. Question, do people generally prefer to put some kind of spacer in the pedestal (i.e. a pice of wood the fills the gap, presumably painted brass) or do they try to cut the tops of the pedestals down so that the keel hits the bottom of the slot? If the latter, do you try to match the curve of the hull, or just cut off the top? If either of those, what is actually necessary to cut brass? I am not swimming in precision power tools (most of what I have is from the days when I was building play structures for my children (i.e. great for treated, dimensional lumber, not so great for precision miniature work); all four of the wooden ships I've built or are building were made with a single power tool - a dremel. Does Dremel make anything that can realistically cut brass?

 

Thanks for the help, for looking in, and for the likes!

 

Regards,

George K.

 

[ClipperFan]

3 hours ago, gak1965 said:

Okay, continuing with the deck furniture before tackling the cutwaters, naval hoods, and (yeek) trying to carve a figurehead. I've finished the water closet/storage/belowdeck entry structures forward (I'm sure there is a proper name and hopefully someone will be able to provide it). As with most of structures, I built them in place, using 1/8 square stock to make two of the corners defined by the coaming. I also mounted two small bits of scrap against the bulwarks to anchor the outer edges of the bulkheads. The bulkheads were built up, painted, and then trimmed to fit in the locations as required, and I built some corner fascia using 3/32 square stock that sanded to shape with my dremel.

 

 

The hatches were all premade, excising bits with an Exacto knife to make the panels. Each hatch used 1/32 square stock to make the jambs and the lintels, and then the whole hatch unit was installed. The capstan bars were made from 1/32 square stock, embedded into their racks, and the racks mounted on the forward side (although they are next to impossible to see). The ceilings were made from 1/16 square stock (the same stock I stained for the deck months ago), joined, shaped and then glued into place (I'm holding the starboard side one down to let the glue cure in the upper photo).

 

So, a couple of views of the completed units:

 

While I realize that this is probably inauthentic, I couldn't help myself make the following for the hatches to the water closets:

 

 

Childish, I know, but you need to have some fun in life.

 

So this is what the ship looks like overall now from the stern. I've also mounted the rear hatches to the carriage house (for some reason I hadn't done so yet).

 

 

So, I have one more hatch to make, and then I pretty much need to get this thing on its display board because it won't be much longer before I no longer want to set this upside down. I used wipe only poly for the cherry base board, which now looks fabulous, so that is done, however, a couple of questions to folks out there. I have three nice brass pedestals from BlueJacket, but they have very deep slots, so without some kind of change, there will be a gap between the keel and the bottom of the slot. Question, do people generally prefer to put some kind of spacer in the pedestal (i.e. a pice of wood the fills the gap, presumably painted brass) or do they try to cut the tops of the pedestals down so that the keel hits the bottom of the slot? If the latter, do you try to match the curve of the hull, or just cut off the top? If either of those, what is actually necessary to cut brass? I am not swimming in precision power tools (most of what I have is from the days when I was building play structures for my children (i.e. great for treated, dimensional lumber, not so great for precision miniature work); all four of the wooden ships I've built or are building were made with a single power tool - a dremel. Does Dremel make anything that can realistically cut brass?

 

Thanks for the help, for looking in, and for the likes!

 

Regards,

George K.

 

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Dremel-High-Performance-Metal-Cutting-Wheel-EZ506HP/313352331?source=shoppingads&locale=en-US&&mtc=Shopping-VF-F_D25T-G-D25T-025_009_PORT_POWER-DREMEL-NA-NA-SMART-2231655-WF-SMARTSHOPPING_Q1Q2PLUSUP_PL3&cm_mmc=Shopping-VF-F_D25T-G-D25T-025_009_PORT_POWER-DREMEL-NA-NA-SMART-2231655-WF-SMARTSHOPPING_Q1Q2PLUSUP_PL3-71700000083187718-58700007049582703-92700063451361494&gclid=CjwKCAiA7dKMBhBCEiwAO_crFJOcGmq5QrJCkdT4Ga3pT-idJmnBybN3I7gZvONZwgjXZ0Teseul3xoCB04QAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds#overlay

 

George I believe the nautical term you're looking for, as used by sailors to access their quarters below is companion. 

As for your concern about the gap between your model's keel and the beautiful brass pedastals, Dremel makes an accessory to cut brass. I've included a link that describes this cut off wheel in great detail. Nice work on the companion and half moon water closet. While apparently silly, it would also have a logical use. It sure would be awkward to think you're entering a ladder to the lower level only to discover you chose the wrong door!