chisels

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Do you add what they refer to as a micro bevel on your chisels? 

[EricWilliamMarshall]

I don’t use the micro-bevel myself. I have nothing against and I believe might a tab more forgiving to sharpen (folks new to free-hand sharpening might roll a bit and create a curved surface instead of flat and a micro-bevel can be added to either just fine). I personally fine having both sides of the chisel flat most useful but this is also a side effect of how I have learned to use the chisel. Most folks coming from the x-acto world wouldn’t notice the difference. 

[EricWilliamMarshall]

 In my humble opinion, there isn’t much difference between either regarding cutting surface. Most important is being sharp. Sharp trumps most things!

 

So what ever gets you to sharp easiest is the first goal.

Then later, what gets you to sharp the quickest is the next goal.

 

Personally, I use water stones free hand but it takes a while to become comfortable with that approach. 

[Gaetan Bordeleau]

3 minutes ago, EricWilliamMarshall said:

I don’t use the micro-bevel myself.

 

Neither do I because there are no benefit. Why should I try to micro ruined a perfect edge?

Leather strop on the other hand is more useful.

[vaddoc]

I think that the idea behind the micro-bevel is that you still have a flat bevel to control the cutting but, when it is time to hone the chisel, only the microbevel will need honing so it will be much quicker and easier as much less metal will need to be removed. Also the microbevel will have a steeper angle so the edge will last longer.

In actual practice I personally could not make it work. Every time the chisel needs honing, a guide needs to be used and the chisel needs to be positioned with perfect accuracy so that only the microbevel will be polished. This is time consuming and practically impossible.

It might work for chisels made from some super exotic steel that need honing once a month but for the ones we use, it is much easier just to pass the chisel over the strops a few times. Modern good chisels retain an edge well but also are easy to hone.

 

[Gaetan Bordeleau]

3 hours ago, vaddoc said:

I think that the idea behind the micro-bevel is that you still have a flat bevel to control the cutting but, when it is time to hone the chisel, only the microbevel will need honing so it will be much quicker and easier as much less metal will need to be removed. Also the microbevel will have a steeper angle so the edge will last longer.

In actual practice I personally could not make it work. Every time the chisel needs honing, a guide needs to be used and the chisel needs to be positioned with perfect accuracy so that only the microbevel will be polished. This is time consuming and practically impossible.

It might work for chisels made from some super exotic steel that need honing once a month but for the ones we use, it is much easier just to pass the chisel over the strops a few times. Modern good chisels retain an edge well but also are easy to hone.

 

In think that you should pay attention to what you write.

 

To believe that the micro bevel will save you time in sharpening is false, in fact it is the opposite.

To believe that the micro bevel will make your edge last longer is also false; with or without, it will last the same time.

Leather is not made for sharpening, leather and compound are made for 2 things:polishing  and removing the burrs.

Sharpening can be easy not because of the steel used but mostly because of the stone type you will use. Water sones are the best, some are very fast and others are slow.

[vaddoc]

1 hour ago, Gaetan Bordeleau said:

In think that you should pay attention to what you write.

 

Dear Gaetan, I think you have misunderstood things

 

In my post I mention what I have read from people that believe in micro bevels. I think it is useless.

We are of the same mind in pretty much everything. 

Let's move on

[Gaetan Bordeleau]

34 minutes ago, vaddoc said:

Dear Gaetan, I think you have misunderstood things

If so, please forgive me, my first language is french, sometimes, it is difficult to fully understand  some posts.

 

Micro bevels for me is a myth created thinking that you would save time in sharpening!

[vaddoc]

No worries Gaetan!

[jdowney]

19 hours ago, Gaetan Bordeleau said:

If so, please forgive me, my first language is french, sometimes, it is difficult to fully understand  some posts.

 

Micro bevels for me is a myth created thinking that you would save time in sharpening!

 

I tend to agree, though I've never tried them either.

 

Stropping does the same thing, functionally, but is far faster and necessarily less precise.  I would suppose that micro bevel adherents believe that precise angles and precisely flat bevels are of the first importance.  I've found the opposite in years of woodworking, so I tend to keep things simpler and quicker so I can focus on the work rather than the preparation for it.

 

I do know several people who take so much pleasure in tool preparation that it is an end unto itself, I've always kind of included those who micro bevel in this group.  Speaking objectively, there is really nothing at all wrong with that.  Taking pleasure from one's activities is the point of a hobby after all.

[Gaetan Bordeleau]

I think there are more important aspects of a knife:

 

- different blade shapes

- sharpening: water stone, truing stone, leather strop

- type of steel

-detail knife fabrication

-testing different blade shapes

-sharpening test

- buffering

- hand sharpening

- knife handle

 

Vossiewulf and I discussed these subjects in my building post of the scratch building section, p. 29:

 

I did regroups the post in 1 .pdf file. May be it could be interest for some peoples.

[JohnLea]

4 hours ago, Gaetan Bordeleau said:

 

 

I did regroups the post in 1 .pdf file. May be it could be interest for some peoples.

Please!

[Gaetan Bordeleau]

John, you simply click on the red banner and you will go directly to74 gun ship p.29 and you scroll down the page

[cotrecerf]

Hi All,

I have just got the full set of mini chisels I ordered with Mihail Kisanov in Ukraine about a month ago. We communicated by email using

translators. There was some delay with the shipment in Ukraine due to festive season ; he helped a lot in tracking with Russian Post.

Mihail started the manufacture immediately on receipt of the total order value which I payed by paypal.

The tools are very nicely made, good haptic and are super sharp. I like the pear wood of the handles very much, absolutely smooth surface.

The set comes in a wooden box for safe storage.

Though at a price of 346 Euros not cheap I think they are absolutely worth the money.

 

Greetings

 

cotrecerf

[JohnLea]

11 hours ago, Gaetan Bordeleau said:

John, you simply click on the red banner and you will go directly to74 gun ship p.29 and you scroll down the page

Merci, Gaetan.  A nod is as good as a wink to a blind horse.

[EricWilliamMarshall]

On 1/25/2021 at 11:48 AM, Gaetan Bordeleau said:

- different blade shapes

- sharpening: water stone, truing stone, leather strop

- type of steel

-detail knife fabrication

-testing different blade shapes

-sharpening test

- buffering

- hand sharpening

- knife handle

I would add to the list: 

-use 
Some activities have slightly different needs - furniture mortises are hard on a chisel (due to prying and hammering) vs. model building vs. recessed carving (where limited access and rotating motion are primary).
If one wishes, these three use are best served by different setups (i.e. thickness of blade, angle of sharpening, handles, etc.)  but most folks will do fine with just one setup. 
Similar to model building, there are many paths and they all work well enough. Most of the folks here won't use these tools enough to worry about these details generally (and the first system that gets the tool sharp will be deemed the winner, since using a sharp tool is delightful!).
I also have found personally, once I found a set up I liked, I adjusted my work to match. For example, I drill out mortises and then pare them instead of hammering away on my rather thin setup.

[EricWilliamMarshall]

On 1/12/2021 at 3:48 PM, grsjax said:

Here is an interesting video on making your own micro chisels

Thanks to @grsjax! I watched the video and gave a try. I used a propane torch, a bench grinder (not necessary but speeds up the shaping) and my regular water stones I use to sharpen my chisels plus a pair of vise grips for holding (as well as eye and ear protection). Instead of O1 steel, I bought HSS rods from Amazon (uxcell Round Steel Rod, 4mm HSS Lathe Bar Stock Tool 200mm Long) for 9 bucks. I untempered the steel, ground it on the grinder free hand then shaped it a bit more with my rough water stone. Then I heated and quenched with water and sharpened normally (with rough and fine water stones). I did this twice with in an hour and a half (not including cooling)! I didn’t make handles (yet).
 

Observations:

1. Vise grips are key to working with a round rod.

2. Free hand grinding is tricky - first pass, I kept regrinding all the sides and not getting the right shape. Second time, took 15 minutes to get the shape. A lighter touch and holding the same position longer helped a great deal.

3. If I do several in the future, I’ll make some jigs for the correct angles.

4. This worked! The blade sharpened and cut cleanly across the grain of pine and cleanly cut cherry end grain.

5. I’m not a metal worker or a machinist and I could pull this off first try, so the process is forgiving and can be repeated until success!

 

Edited February 11, 2021 by EricWilliamMarshall

[Roger Pellett]

Eric,

 

How did you anneal the rod?  To anneal steel  you need to cool it slowly.  When I have tried to do this it air cools so rapidly that it remains hard.

[grsjax]

6 hours ago, Roger Pellett said:

Eric,

 

How did you anneal the rod?  To anneal steel  you need to cool it slowly.  When I have tried to do this it air cools so rapidly that it remains hard.

Cool the steel in sand.

[EricWilliamMarshall]

If you follow Sullivan’s recipe in the video, he suggested you buy the metal already annealed. To anneal it to some folks use sand as @grsjax quickly(!) suggested or a type clay associated with kitty litter, vermiculite. (Note - it has to be dry! No need for dangerous steam! Bake the sand in your oven if you’re not sure.)  There are cheap ceramic fiber blankets or if you have friend who does glass work, see if they have kiln. Most glassworks have to anneal or they shatter.

 

All that said, you can work the metal when hard. (Technically, sharpening a chisel is just such a process.) 

 

 

 

Edited February 12, 2021 by EricWilliamMarshall