Windfilled sails with silk span

[Markus16]

Dear forum members,

my Amati Rainbow is making good progress and I‘m just planning to make the sails with silk span. The videos from Tom Lauria are really helpful.

Do you have any experience to imitate the shape of windfilled sails? My thoughts in this directions are fixing the edges of the sails in a sort of frame, moisten them with a mixture of 2/3 water and 1/3 glue and then weighting them with something like sand to achieve an even distribution over the whole sail surface.

I‘d be happy about any good advice.

Edited May 28, 2021 by Markus16

[Justin P.]

For a while there was a build log or post by @JerseyCity Frankie that many people referenced showing how he achieved this.   It appears to be gone now.  His were really good...    

 

If I remember correctly he used paper mache to create convex molds and then would set his sail material over the mold using some kind of finish (maybe Varnish or Shellac?) to get the sail material to hold its shape.   I don't remember exactly how he did it, but it provided a great result.   

 

You might also try a search of the Forum, there are a few good threads on the subject:

 

 

Edited May 28, 2021 by Justin P.

[lmagna]

38 minutes ago, Justin P. said:

For a while there was a build log or post by @JerseyCity Frankie that many people referenced showing how he achieved this.

Possibly this one?

 

 

[Keith Black]

 Very realistic sails, starting with post #189, page 7.

 

 

[Markus16]

Hi, Justin, Imagna and Keith, 

many thanks for your posts. The post of the Cutty Sark is really good. There is no literal translation for silk span in German and so I bought something literally translated as „silk paper“, which turned out to be „tissue paper“ and crumbled and was torn into pieces when I tried to paint it. I think I‘ll have to ask for material for model planes to get the right material.

[toms10]

6 hours ago, Markus16 said:

Dear forum members,

my Amati Rainbow is making good progress and I‘m just planning to make the sails with silk span. The videos from Tom Lauria are really helpful.

Do you have any experience to imitate the shape of windfilled sails? My thoughts in this directions are fixing the edges of the sails in a sort of frame, moisten them with a mixture of 2/3 water and 1/3 glue and then weighting them with something like sand to achieve an even distribution over the whole sail surface.

I‘d be happy about any good advice.

 

Hi Markus16,

I am making sails using silkspan with a piece of paper in between. I was following the technique showed to me by another member.  In hind sight, I think next time I might try either a another piece of silkspan instead of paper or just omit the middle ply all together.  I will figure it out on the next model since all my sails are made and came out pretty good... especially for the first time.  Check the link to my Leopard build.  Page 11 has some general instruction on how it made them.  I bought my silkspan here in the US from one of our sponsors, Bluejacket.

 

Tom

[Markus16]

Dear Tom, 

thank you very much for your reply. I looked up your build log of the Leopard, it‘s absolutely stunning!! I‘m deeply impressed about this piece of art. I think on Monday I will first try to support my local dealer. If he cannot help me, I‘ll order from Bluejacket. 
I recognized that I have to be a little more patient since I‘ve made a pretty quick progress so far. 

[Markus16]

Dear forum members,

after several failures with the material I think I found the right one now.

I tried a thin polyester cloth also used for model planes first, but the one that worked so far is translated as „span paper“ (Bespannpapier) in German.

Right now I‘m at a loss and a little bit frustrated. After painting the silk span with an ivory acrylic paint as cautiously and evenly as I could, the silk span now looks like parchment when light is shining through (see picture). On a solid ground it‘s pretty much like what I intended it to be. This parchment look might be appropriate for an old ship, but on a J Class Yacht to me it looks inappropriate.

Can anybody help me?

[Bob Cleek]

J boats had their day before the invention of synthetic fabrics. The color would have been a light cream.

[Markus16]

Yeah, that‘s what I tried to achieve, but not that blotchy parchment look when light is shining through (second picture).

[niwotwill]

I've had some luck with Elmers white school glue thinned to a fat free milk density. Painted on and does not change color of original substrate. Good Luck

 

 

[toms10]

Markus

look at my Leopard build log page 11. I used spray paint on both sides of the silk span. Then I used a piece of regular copier paper and drew the seam lines on it and then sprayed it with adhesive. Then I put the painted silk span on it and rolled it with a small wall paper roller to get the bobbles out. Then repeat on the other side. The paper ply in the center will eliminate the “see through” effect when held up to the light. Don’t forget to cut one side of the silk span larger all around the leech and foot sides of the sail. Then lay a piece of annealed wire on the edge and fold the silkspan over the wire and glue down. The the wire can be bent to form the sail like it is full of wind. 
 

hope this helps. 
Tom

[Markus16]

Dear Tom, thanks for your help. In a post before you mentioned that you would try to omit the middle layer next time. I checked it, but it still looks blotchy. Since I would have to buy an A3 size paper for the middle layer, I think I will try to use my  tissue paper. I will let you know about my efforts.

[Roger Pellett]

Many years ago the original Model Shipways, the Yellow Box Era, sold a light very tightly woven fabric called Balloon Cloth for sails.  I made some sails from it using Markus’s glued panel method.  The sails turned out well.  I recently tried to find some on the internet but could only find ads for balloons.  No longer made?

 

Roger

[Bob Cleek]

On 6/5/2021 at 10:02 AM, Roger Pellett said:

Many years ago the original Model Shipways, the Yellow Box Era, sold a light very tightly woven fabric called Balloon Cloth for sails.  I made some sails from it using Markus’s glued panel method.  The sails turned out well.  I recently tried to find some on the internet but could only find ads for balloons.  No longer made?

 

Roger

I still have a stash of that MS "balloon cloth" from the "Yellow Box Era." I don't think it's really anything other than a finely woven linen cloth. It was called "balloon cloth" (or sometimes "ballooner cloth") because they used to make hot air balloons out of it. It was also used by bookbinders to bind high quality hand-bound volumes. I searched for it online and kept getting hits for fabric with hot air balloons printed on it! I only found one source which appears to be the read deal, in three weights: heavy, medium, and light: https://fabrics-store.com/all-fabrics?hsa_tgt=kwd-77240888451493:loc-4084&hsa_grp=1235851277083946&hsa_src=o&hsa_net=adwords&hsa_mt=b&hsa_ver=3&hsa_ad=&hsa_acc=6560444710&hsa_kw=www fabric-store com&hsa_cam=1705433906&msclkid=83c7a17969641b583bd5c18f2c462432&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=[TDM] Branded&utm_term=www fabric-store com&utm_content=Branded

[Roger Pellett]

Unfortunately it (my balloon cloth) also made good muzzleloading rifle patches.

[Markus16]

Sorry, Roger, I‘m German and don‘t understand what you mean with „muzzleloading rifle patches“.

[Markus16]

Ok, so it was meant literally! Although I‘ve kust finished my boat, I‘m not fully satisfied, because the sails made of silkspan do still look like paper. I‘m already thinking about unrigging it and sewing new sails. If only I had the right cloth and had the required skills with the sewing machine…

[Keith Black]

11 minutes ago, Markus16 said:

If only I had the right cloth and had the required skills with the sewing machine…

 That's why God made our dear wives.

[druxey]

Stretch the SilkSpan on a frame and paint it with dilute acrylic first. The number of coats will control the degree of transparency or opacity.