SkiBee Posted January 3, 2022 Share #91 Posted January 3, 2022 Just a thought. Due to the problem with worms, insects, and termites found in ship dunnage; wouldn't the timbers for the launch way be coated in some sort of anti-insect proofer, such as tar/creosote. It seems that would make the launch way darker to blackish. Keith Black and lraymo 2 Quote Current Projects: Completed Projects: Armed Virginia Sloop - Model Shipways - 1:96 Muscongus Bay Lobster Smack - Model Shipways - 1:24 Phantom New York Pilot Boat - Model Shipways - 1:96 18th Century Long Boat - Model Shipways - 1:48 Norwegian Sailing Pram - Model Shipways - 1:12 Lowell Grand Banks Dory - Model Shipways - 1:24 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Black Posted January 3, 2022 Share #92 Posted January 3, 2022 SkiBee, having worked with creosoted piling on the docks in Alaska, the last thing a guy wants to do is work around/with creosoted lumber. Creosote is just nasty stuff. Lumber back then was cheap, dirt cheap. I'm sure dunnage was readily available and even if they had to cut timber/lumber to special lengths it wasn't an issue. Creosote and treated lumber is a relatively new thing, now tar is another matter but I can't see tar being used on a lunch way because it's not slippery enough. Up north when we wanted to move the pile driver or other items without wheels across the docks we greased a path with common lard. Now that does bring up a point, now that I think about it and as I remember, greased launch timbers/lumber untreated and left to the elements was a deep brown, almost black in color. That's something to think about, Lynn. You might do a little research and see if you can come up with anything. SkiBee, thank you for jogging my memory. Cathead and lraymo 2 Quote Current Builds: 1870's Sternwheeler, Lula Wood Hull Screw Frigate USS Tennessee Decorative Carrack Warship Restoration, the Amelia Completed: 1880s Floating Steam Donkey Pile Driver Early Swift 1805 Model Restoration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Black Posted January 10, 2022 Share #93 Posted January 10, 2022 Lynn, did you receive your bench vise? lraymo 1 Quote Current Builds: 1870's Sternwheeler, Lula Wood Hull Screw Frigate USS Tennessee Decorative Carrack Warship Restoration, the Amelia Completed: 1880s Floating Steam Donkey Pile Driver Early Swift 1805 Model Restoration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lraymo Posted January 10, 2022 Author Share #94 Posted January 10, 2022 Back at it! First of all, yes, Keith, I received the vise, but haven't set it up yet. It was missing the liners, but the ebay seller found some replacements and sent them to me at his own expense. I was thankful! So to get back to work, I finished the rudder, and "copper-plated" it. I positioned it on the hull via some scotch tape, just to see how it looks, and I'm pleased with how it turned out! Next, I painted the hull. I think I need to find some instruction on how to paint and finish wood! The pictures below show the 2nd coat of paint, then sanding with 400 grit, then the 3rd coat of paint. I was surprised at how much paint came off after sanding. I think I need to use 1000 or higher grit for the next sanding pass. My goal for this model has always been to show off the masts and rigging, and I'm not so much worried about the hull, since it won't be seen as much as you look down on it. So I just want it to look fairly smooth, with no obvious globs of paint or major defects. After a few more rounds of sanding and painting, I'll be ready to copper the bottom. The kit only sent 14 inches of tape instead of the 14 feet required, per the parts list, so I am waiting for Model-Expo to send more copper tape, then I'll get started. (I'm a little intimidated by the prospect of adhering 100's of little pieces of tape to the hull, but I've got some tweezers that might come in handy!) The rudder! (I realized my inability to neatly wrap Christmas presents carries over into neatly wrapping copper tape! But I'm ok with how it looks!) 2nd coat of paint (will need many more!) After sanding with 400 grit 3rd coat of paint. I'll sand using 1000 or higher next time. Hopefully won't need too many more coats of paint. GrandpaPhil, Duanelaker, ct mike and 5 others 8 Quote Current: Model Shipways Phantom Pilot Boat Completed: Norwegian Sailing Pram Lowell Grand Banks Dory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Black Posted January 10, 2022 Share #95 Posted January 10, 2022 Lynn, do yourself a favor and paint (the same paint you used to paint the hull) a test piece. Then try to glue a couple of the copper tiles or tape to the painted test piece. I think you're going to find that trying to glue to a painted surface isn't going to work out well. You'll probably have to seal (varnish or polyurethane) that portion of hull you want to copper plate. Did the kit come with individual tile or copper tape? It's exciting when one starts applying paint as it brings a little life to the model but it shows the slightest imperfections. Most of the time one has to first apply a sandable primer coat or two as this helps to fill those small divots while highlighting the high points. Glad you got the Workmate and that the eBay seller worked with you. My wife and I have almost 800 eBay purchases going back to the early eBay beginnings including four classic cars and we've always had the best of experiences using eBay. Golf is back on TV! ct mike, lraymo and Ryland Craze 3 Quote Current Builds: 1870's Sternwheeler, Lula Wood Hull Screw Frigate USS Tennessee Decorative Carrack Warship Restoration, the Amelia Completed: 1880s Floating Steam Donkey Pile Driver Early Swift 1805 Model Restoration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkiBee Posted January 10, 2022 Share #96 Posted January 10, 2022 @lraymo First, I was very, very intimidated by the copper tape, but just took my time and worked aft to fwd and bottom to top. I painted the hull prior to tapping and it worked ok. I was a little concerned to the tape not adhering well, but a little test sample on un-painted wood vs painted wood indicated it would not be any more of problem. That said, it is easy to lift the edge of an applied piece of copper tape and create a problem. I found that just taking my time was the best solution, also covering major completed sections with sensitive painter's tape to prevent edge damage while I coppered the rest. Also, I still have the tape covering my copper hull while I work on the rest of the ship. In regard to painting and sanding, like Keith said, I usally spray primer a couple of coats on and then lightly sand it prior to spraying a couple of coats of color. I do use fine and very fine wet sand paper when I'm sanding the color. I usally pray a lot and don't sand the final coat. Cathead, Keith Black, lraymo and 1 other 4 Quote Current Projects: Completed Projects: Armed Virginia Sloop - Model Shipways - 1:96 Muscongus Bay Lobster Smack - Model Shipways - 1:24 Phantom New York Pilot Boat - Model Shipways - 1:96 18th Century Long Boat - Model Shipways - 1:48 Norwegian Sailing Pram - Model Shipways - 1:12 Lowell Grand Banks Dory - Model Shipways - 1:24 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Black Posted January 10, 2022 Share #97 Posted January 10, 2022 6 minutes ago, SkiBee said: I usally pray a lot Don't we all, LOL! gulfmedic1 and lraymo 2 Quote Current Builds: 1870's Sternwheeler, Lula Wood Hull Screw Frigate USS Tennessee Decorative Carrack Warship Restoration, the Amelia Completed: 1880s Floating Steam Donkey Pile Driver Early Swift 1805 Model Restoration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lraymo Posted January 10, 2022 Author Share #98 Posted January 10, 2022 Thanks for the feedback, Keith and SkiBee! Especially praying alot! LOL! I'm learning quite a bit, and realizing what a rank beginner I am, but its all a process, right? Meanwhile, I am waiting for the replacement copper tape before I can continue on that adventure (gulp!) Hopefully, it will work out ok, but I will definitely be doing some testing before I begin! Yay for eBay! 4 classic cars, and 800 purchases? I am impressed! 3 hours ago, Keith Black said: four classic cars 3 hours ago, Keith Black said: My wife and I have almost 800 eBay purchases Yay for golf on TV! (I watched the latest in Hawaii... wow, wish I was there!) 3 hours ago, Keith Black said: Golf is back on TV! Ryland Craze and Keith Black 2 Quote Current: Model Shipways Phantom Pilot Boat Completed: Norwegian Sailing Pram Lowell Grand Banks Dory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Black Posted January 10, 2022 Share #99 Posted January 10, 2022 Who's your fav golfer? I follow and root for Jordan Spieth. lraymo 1 Quote Current Builds: 1870's Sternwheeler, Lula Wood Hull Screw Frigate USS Tennessee Decorative Carrack Warship Restoration, the Amelia Completed: 1880s Floating Steam Donkey Pile Driver Early Swift 1805 Model Restoration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianK Posted January 16, 2022 Share #100 Posted January 16, 2022 Looking good Lynn. I have never copper taped before but will be trying it soon. I love to see everyone else doing it......motivating! 😃 I agree with the comments about it being your call to paint/stain/weather how you see it! Please only take my comments as, well, comments. That and $3 will get you a Starbucks....... 😃 Skibee I came at creosote from the model railroad world where there has been "lively" debate on when railroads started treating railroad ties with penetrating creosote oil. Here in the US the pressure treated practice on railroads seems to have propagated from the northeast in the late 19th century (1870-ish). I model the mid-1880s in the southwest and don't model creosote treatment (as those bridge frames can attest to). Prior to that time frame I was under the impression wood-tar and coal-tar were "painted" on wood but that penetration oil processes where the creosote "liquid" from the tar (especially coal tar) was forced into the wood were not in widespread use. From a modeling standpoint this might not matter if historical accuracy is your goal -- Applied tar vs creosote treatment would plausibly lead to the same exterior coloring over time so pilings from the 18th and late 19th century might look the same after long enough weathering periods..... Keith is right about wood in the boat yard. here are a sacrificial bumper and keel chocks at a boatyard in Mayport Florida. GrandpaPhil, Keith Black, Ryland Craze and 3 others 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lraymo Posted January 19, 2022 Author Share #101 Posted January 19, 2022 Just finished coppering the keel with the remaining few inches of tape from the kit. They only sent 14 inches, instead of the required 14 feet, and now its backordered for 15-20 days. So I found some copper tape on Amazon, and will give it a try. Meanwhile, I also set the keel "pins" which will secure it to the launchway. Having to wait on the remaining copper, I finished the Launchway. With my "precision" being somewhat suspect, i went ahead and built a little jig to help keep everything parallel, and it seemed to work out well. After it was finished, I did a "dry fit' to make sure everything fits. And I used my little broaches to widen the holes so that the pins would easily fit onto the launch. (I love all the advice you all have given me on tools!) I appreciate all the comments about the wood in boat docks (and thanks for the pics @BrianK! On 1/16/2022 at 8:15 AM, BrianK said: and $3 will get you a Starbucks....... I had to give up on Starbucks, since they now charge $5.78 for my decaf sugar-free vanilla latte! And Keith, I like Jordan too! But i was happy to see Jim Furyk doing so well on the opening day of the Sony... although he didn't keep it going. On 1/10/2022 at 5:15 PM, Keith Black said: I follow and root for Jordan Spieth. Meanwhile, I think I'll wait till the Phantom is completed, before I decide what treatment to do on the Launchway. But this has been an interesting discussion on creosote. You worked on the docks in Alaska? Is that how you got interested in model ship building? Coppering the keel My "jig" Finished Dry Fit SkiBee, Cathead, Keith Black and 2 others 5 Quote Current: Model Shipways Phantom Pilot Boat Completed: Norwegian Sailing Pram Lowell Grand Banks Dory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Black Posted January 19, 2022 Share #102 Posted January 19, 2022 (edited) Lynn, the launch way looks great, the Phantom looks right at home. I didn't get interested in ship modeling till much later in life. What drew my interest when working for a salmon cannery my second season up north was my future/current wife. She was there working in the mess hall (her second season), when we met. She had originally gone up to check out her Alaskan Native heritage, I'd originally gone north to escape a bad marriage. Her mother was full blood Aleut born in the village (Egegik) where the cannery was located. Her mother left the village when she was about 15 to go to school in Anchorage. She stayed in Anchorage after her schooling was finished and eventually met my wife's father who was stationed there in the Navy. They moved to Michigan where my wife was born. It was a cannery romance that has stuck for 42 years. Edited January 19, 2022 by Keith Black Roger Pellett, BrianK, Cathead and 3 others 6 Quote Current Builds: 1870's Sternwheeler, Lula Wood Hull Screw Frigate USS Tennessee Decorative Carrack Warship Restoration, the Amelia Completed: 1880s Floating Steam Donkey Pile Driver Early Swift 1805 Model Restoration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianK Posted January 19, 2022 Share #103 Posted January 19, 2022 Beautiful launch way Lynn. Nice clean cuts and the glue work looks appropriately sparse (I can't see it 😃 ) Love the jig. I am a huge jig fan. Jigs are the only way I can repeat anything in model building, starting with widget number 2! LOL Brian lraymo, Ryland Craze and Keith Black 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lraymo Posted January 20, 2022 Author Share #104 Posted January 20, 2022 On 1/18/2022 at 9:30 PM, Keith Black said: It was a cannery romance that has stuck for 42 years. Congrats on 42 years! What a great story and history. Alaska is beautiful. I've taken a couple cruises to Alaska, and spent a few days in Denali.. but would love to go back and spend some serious time there, learning more about it. Again, 42 years! Congratulations! On 1/19/2022 at 2:47 PM, BrianK said: the glue work looks appropriately sparse Thanks Brian! There's a few dribs and drabs, but I tried my best to clean up as much as I could! BrianK and Keith Black 1 1 Quote Current: Model Shipways Phantom Pilot Boat Completed: Norwegian Sailing Pram Lowell Grand Banks Dory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lraymo Posted February 8, 2022 Author Share #105 Posted February 8, 2022 I'm finally back at it! The missing copper tape arrived, and I started the coppering of the hull. I'm trying to follow the pattern shown in the directions. It'll take some time to finish it, but at least I've got it started! I was able to "tape off" the waterline. And the Keel Pins are still attached (I covered them with tape so that I don't poke myself!). They are so securely fastened, I figured it would be easier to keep them in at this point! Beginning to attach the copper plates... The picture from the instructions... DanB, Keith Black, Bill Morrison and 2 others 5 Quote Current: Model Shipways Phantom Pilot Boat Completed: Norwegian Sailing Pram Lowell Grand Banks Dory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Black Posted February 8, 2022 Share #106 Posted February 8, 2022 Lynn, good to see you back and a nice start to coppering the hull. lraymo 1 Quote Current Builds: 1870's Sternwheeler, Lula Wood Hull Screw Frigate USS Tennessee Decorative Carrack Warship Restoration, the Amelia Completed: 1880s Floating Steam Donkey Pile Driver Early Swift 1805 Model Restoration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cathead Posted February 8, 2022 Share #107 Posted February 8, 2022 (edited) Lynn, this may be too picky (and too late), but it looks to me like the drawing shows that the hull-length coppering is meant to make a sweeping curve that follows the natural curve of the hull and blends gradually into being parallel with the keel, not a straight line that ends in a specific angle with the run of the keel, as marked up in blue below: It's not a big deal now, but as you keep going up I'm concerned you'll have more trouble with that angle and it'll become ever-more awkward and noticeable. I assume the next lines of coppering follow that initial curve, so without having to redo anything, I think you could fix it by making sure to lay the next one in a curve and just insert a small filler plate where there's a gap between the curve and the angle (yellow below): Forgive the rough mark-up but hopefully it illustrates the point? Full disclosure, I've never coppered a hull, I'm just going on what the plan you displayed seems to show and my intuition as to how any linear feature (whether planking or coppering) will run naturally over a curved hull. Feel free to disregard, just wanted to make the suggestion. Happy to hear that I'm wrong from someone with more experience laying out coppering belts. Edited February 8, 2022 by Cathead GrandpaPhil and Keith Black 2 Quote Eric Current builds: scratchbuilt Missouri River steamboat Peerless (1893); 1:1 scale timber-framed outdoor kitchen Nautical builds (kits): USS Cairo; NRG capstan project; NRG half-hull; Viking longship; US revenue cutter; 18th century longboat; Bounty launch Missouri River craft (scratchbuilt): 1853 Missouri River steamboat Arabia; 1865 steamboat Bertrand; Lewis & Clark barge; keelboat; 1876 steamboat Far West Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lraymo Posted February 8, 2022 Author Share #108 Posted February 8, 2022 9 hours ago, Cathead said: hull-length coppering is meant to make a sweeping curve Very good point, Eric! What's funny is that I thought I WAS making a "sweeping curve", but when done, it certainly looked exactly like a straight line! I liked your mark-up of the curve, and it helps me to visualize what to do! Thanks! Ryland Craze and Keith Black 2 Quote Current: Model Shipways Phantom Pilot Boat Completed: Norwegian Sailing Pram Lowell Grand Banks Dory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkiBee Posted February 8, 2022 Share #109 Posted February 8, 2022 Lynn, I tried to match the schematic in the instructions too; but if you look at my results, they don't look much different than yours, plus both sides of my hull are different. When done, I think it all looks good. It's the journey not the destination. Keith Black and lraymo 2 Quote Current Projects: Completed Projects: Armed Virginia Sloop - Model Shipways - 1:96 Muscongus Bay Lobster Smack - Model Shipways - 1:24 Phantom New York Pilot Boat - Model Shipways - 1:96 18th Century Long Boat - Model Shipways - 1:48 Norwegian Sailing Pram - Model Shipways - 1:12 Lowell Grand Banks Dory - Model Shipways - 1:24 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lraymo Posted February 13, 2022 Author Share #110 Posted February 13, 2022 I've finished coppering ONE SIDE of the hull, and I'm excited about how it turned out! It was tedious putting each little copper "plate" on, but after awhile, it turned into a Zen-like experience! First, I decided that cutting little 3/8" pieces and trying to peel of the backing was just too tiny for my fingers, so I ended up cutting a 5" strip of copper tape, peeling off the back and laying it down on my work table, then slicing into the smaller pieces, and using tweezers to pick up and lay them on the hull. I've included the hull pics and a couple of close-ups, but if anyone has any suggestions or feedback before I start the other half, that would be cool! Thanks! ct mike, Keith Black, GrandpaPhil and 4 others 6 1 Quote Current: Model Shipways Phantom Pilot Boat Completed: Norwegian Sailing Pram Lowell Grand Banks Dory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cathead Posted February 14, 2022 Share #111 Posted February 14, 2022 Great progress! lraymo and Keith Black 2 Quote Eric Current builds: scratchbuilt Missouri River steamboat Peerless (1893); 1:1 scale timber-framed outdoor kitchen Nautical builds (kits): USS Cairo; NRG capstan project; NRG half-hull; Viking longship; US revenue cutter; 18th century longboat; Bounty launch Missouri River craft (scratchbuilt): 1853 Missouri River steamboat Arabia; 1865 steamboat Bertrand; Lewis & Clark barge; keelboat; 1876 steamboat Far West Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Black Posted February 14, 2022 Share #112 Posted February 14, 2022 Lynn, very nice. I'll have to start calling you the 'Coppertone Girl' lraymo and Cathead 1 1 Quote Current Builds: 1870's Sternwheeler, Lula Wood Hull Screw Frigate USS Tennessee Decorative Carrack Warship Restoration, the Amelia Completed: 1880s Floating Steam Donkey Pile Driver Early Swift 1805 Model Restoration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cathead Posted February 14, 2022 Share #113 Posted February 14, 2022 Y'know, that'd make a great figurehead... Keith Black and lraymo 2 Quote Eric Current builds: scratchbuilt Missouri River steamboat Peerless (1893); 1:1 scale timber-framed outdoor kitchen Nautical builds (kits): USS Cairo; NRG capstan project; NRG half-hull; Viking longship; US revenue cutter; 18th century longboat; Bounty launch Missouri River craft (scratchbuilt): 1853 Missouri River steamboat Arabia; 1865 steamboat Bertrand; Lewis & Clark barge; keelboat; 1876 steamboat Far West Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianK Posted February 14, 2022 Share #114 Posted February 14, 2022 Wow Lynn! Just wow! Inspirational for an inexperienced boat builder like me!! BrianK lraymo, Cathead and Keith Black 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lraymo Posted February 16, 2022 Author Share #115 Posted February 16, 2022 Started coppering the other half of the hull. @Cathead I'm working on doing a better "sweeping curve" this time! And @BrianK, I am a rank beginner, but thanks for the kind words! Also, @Keith Black let's nip that "coppertone" nickname in the bud! Teehee! Keith Black, Ryland Craze, Cathead and 1 other 3 1 Quote Current: Model Shipways Phantom Pilot Boat Completed: Norwegian Sailing Pram Lowell Grand Banks Dory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lraymo Posted February 19, 2022 Author Share #116 Posted February 19, 2022 Coppering is finished! Both sides of the hull completed, and I was happy with the pic from straight overhead, which shows that the two sides mostly match! Yay! Next up is "thinning the bulwarks". The instructions point out this may be the most difficult part of the project, so I'm a bit intimidated. But I've seen @SkiBee's work, and my goal is to be able to do something similar, with his build log as a guide! ccoyle, GrandpaPhil, Cathead and 4 others 5 2 Quote Current: Model Shipways Phantom Pilot Boat Completed: Norwegian Sailing Pram Lowell Grand Banks Dory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Black Posted February 19, 2022 Share #117 Posted February 19, 2022 Lynn, very very nice. Well done, buddy. lraymo, Cathead and BrianK 2 1 Quote Current Builds: 1870's Sternwheeler, Lula Wood Hull Screw Frigate USS Tennessee Decorative Carrack Warship Restoration, the Amelia Completed: 1880s Floating Steam Donkey Pile Driver Early Swift 1805 Model Restoration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianK Posted February 21, 2022 Share #118 Posted February 21, 2022 Looks great Lynn. Such a clean edge at the waterline! Love the birdseye photo (from below? 😃 ) of the whole coppering job. It just looks real to me! BrianK lraymo and Keith Black 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lraymo Posted February 22, 2022 Author Share #119 Posted February 22, 2022 Thanks @Keith Black and @BrianK for the positive words! I appreciate your comments! So now I'm moving on to sanding the bulwarks and I have a question. I've managed to carve the bulwarks to about1/16th thick, and now they're supposed to be sanded down to 1/32" thick. Question: Is there any other way to sand the inside of the bulwarks other than wrapping a piece of sandpaper around my finger? Suggestions? Thanks! Keith Black, Ryland Craze, ccoyle and 2 others 5 Quote Current: Model Shipways Phantom Pilot Boat Completed: Norwegian Sailing Pram Lowell Grand Banks Dory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Black Posted February 22, 2022 Share #120 Posted February 22, 2022 Lynn, make your own sanding stick or buy some if you don't want to take the time to make some. To make them just super glue sandpaper to the end of a flat piece of wood and voila. https://www.amazon.com/stores/page/4AA5018D-AE8E-457B-A3D5-3A85FE05976F/?_encoding=UTF8&store_ref=SB_A01859563PL9E9QMPZ1S8&pd_rd_plhdr=t&aaxitk=93a7393d31f130d7eb02a6bbdb6ae696&hsa_cr_id=1109728570401&lp_asins=B08YFKSRJT%2CB08Y78TB3X%2CB08YFMG6Z9&lp_query=Sanding Stick&lp_slot=auto-sparkle-hsa-tetris&ref_=sbx_be_s_sparkle_lsi4d_ls&pd_rd_w=8UM8T&pf_rd_p=488a18be-6d86-4de0-8607-bd4ea4b560f3&pd_rd_wg=apBcr&pf_rd_r=J734HS92Y9J42N49QB2Z&pd_rd_r=ea6d1bd1-bdda-4cae-adb3-2d95006e72fc Cathead, Ryland Craze and lraymo 3 Quote Current Builds: 1870's Sternwheeler, Lula Wood Hull Screw Frigate USS Tennessee Decorative Carrack Warship Restoration, the Amelia Completed: 1880s Floating Steam Donkey Pile Driver Early Swift 1805 Model Restoration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.