AnobiumPunctatum Posted January 26, 2014 #31 Posted January 26, 2014 It's looking really good Regards Christian Current build: HM Cutter Alert, 1777; HM Sloop Fly, 1776 - 1/36 On the drawing board: English Ship Sloops Fly, 1776, Comet, 1783 and Aetna, 1776; Naval Cutter Alert, 1777 Paused: HMS Triton, 1771 - 1/48 "Have no fear of perfection - you'll never reach it." Salvador Dali
harvey1847 Posted January 26, 2014 #32 Posted January 26, 2014 beautiful bolting Randall! Can you believe I have not drill the stem after three years?! I´ll do it today... Keep going Randall, best wishes. daniel. Jorge Diaz O 1 In the shipyard: HMS Triton 1773. POF. 1:48. Daniel On the computer: R.A. Principe de La Paz. POF. 1:48. Daniel
kellrandy Posted February 3, 2014 Author #33 Posted February 3, 2014 Thank you everyone for the compliments, it's greatly appreciated. I will post some pics tomorrow, but I believe I've reached the stage where I can mount it to my build board and begin the framing process. I have the stem, keel, stern post, inner post, and deadwoods assembled. I plan on installing the keelson as I go with the framing. With all of that complete, is it ready for framing, or should I complete other things before I embark on that? Also, I plan on placing the finished model on a cradle instead of posts, so drilling holes to mount it is out of the question for me. I've come up with a solution I think will work out well, and keep it secure and nicely square and plumb to the board without drilling or glueing anything that isn't supposed to be. I will post that method for everyone when I get all the details worked out. Until then, talk at everyone later and have a great week!
kellrandy Posted February 5, 2014 Author #34 Posted February 5, 2014 Hi everyone, so I'm a day late in posting photos, but here they are. I'm still working on the board mounting system. I should have some pics of that method sometime this weekend. 42rocker, harvey1847, sport29652 and 2 others 5
harvey1847 Posted February 5, 2014 #35 Posted February 5, 2014 (edited) Good Morning Randy! A bit late answering you too... I plan on installing the keelson as I go with the framing. I wouldn´t go that way, even if you fair the frames before erect them yes or yes you´ll have to make more fairing work inside and outside of the hull. It´s my opinion of course. One thing I can tell you, by adding the keelson the strength you give to the hull is enormous. Other thing that worked for me was to glue the aft and fore frames first, faired them and then glue the square frames. It´s much more easy to sand this two parts than if you have all of them in place. Beautiful pics anyway, nice and clean! Best wishes Randall! Daniel. Edited February 5, 2014 by harvey1847 mtaylor 1 In the shipyard: HMS Triton 1773. POF. 1:48. Daniel On the computer: R.A. Principe de La Paz. POF. 1:48. Daniel
Matrim Posted February 5, 2014 #36 Posted February 5, 2014 Makes sense and dont we all hate fairing... harvey1847 1 ...
kellrandy Posted February 6, 2014 Author #37 Posted February 6, 2014 Thank you for the tip, Daniel. The stability the keelson provides is why I am thinking of doing it that way. I had planned to cut a set of frames, fair the center, then install a piece of the keelson and continue until all the frames and keelson were complete. Then I would fair the rest inside and out. I had also planned on leaving them with a little extra wood width wise for the fairing process. I'm just scared that I would accidentally break one if my sanding blocks catch one the wrong way if I don't have it installed. We'll see how it progresses as it is a long process and I'll have plenty of time to rethink this approach.
harvey1847 Posted February 6, 2014 #38 Posted February 6, 2014 Good luck then...! You are going to have lots of fun framing. You can bet that! Best wishes. Daniel. In the shipyard: HMS Triton 1773. POF. 1:48. Daniel On the computer: R.A. Principe de La Paz. POF. 1:48. Daniel
kellrandy Posted February 7, 2014 Author #39 Posted February 7, 2014 Don't I know that, lol. After cutting out the transoms and aft frames and test fitting them, I can see where you were coming from, Daniel. Doing it the way I had described will be quite difficult to get right, at least for me, and the keelson may not lay right doing it in sections like that. I think I'll install them all first, still going in sections, make a few, install a few to keep the monotony down somewhat. Then I'll fair the inside, install the keelson, then fair the outside. I do have one question about the hawse pieces... Is it better/easier to fair them roughly, install, then finish the fairing process on them when the rest of the fore frames are installed so it flows more smoothly?
harvey1847 Posted February 7, 2014 #40 Posted February 7, 2014 I do have one question about the hawse pieces... Is it better/easier to fair them roughly, install, then finish the fairing process on them when the rest of the fore frames are installed so it flows more smoothly? That is the way I did it Randall. I roughly fair the interior and I am sanding the exterior now (It´s done). Kind of tricky pieces. For the exterior I just wanted to have a "whole view" of the hull before sanding it. I did this way because I was not sure about my skills or if I was going to be able to center the frames exactly on there position on the keel. If you feel with confi and with better skills you could do it like I like to say "Ed´s way" ... Fair the frames completly (int/ext) and then erect them. Small later fairing will be done. I think this method saves lots of time. like I said I didn´t trust myself to do it this way so I went for the easier to me. Good luck Randall and post more pics!! Daniel. In the shipyard: HMS Triton 1773. POF. 1:48. Daniel On the computer: R.A. Principe de La Paz. POF. 1:48. Daniel
kellrandy Posted February 9, 2014 Author #41 Posted February 9, 2014 So, I have to say I scrapped my method of mounting the keel, and went with a very basic method of scrap wood with some sandpaper to grip the sides of the keel and some braces for the stem and stern. It holds solid, but not to tight that I can't remove it when it's time. My method was using the rabbet to hold it down, but didn't get enough grip to do it that way and I didn't want to damage it. On to other things... The transoms I am having to redo. I didn't shape them correctly the first go round and am trying to figure out the shape. I'm not able to visualize it properly I guess. Is the whole top and bottom tapered as shown on the stern view? And if so, what's the purpose of the line that's in the middle? Does that taper on the inside of the transoms? Thanks again for helping out a rookie!
harvey1847 Posted February 9, 2014 #42 Posted February 9, 2014 Hi Randy! I can tell you what worked for me. I did not tapered these pieces untill the framing of the stern was done. With the frames raised you will have a "better view" of hull. ( at least the stern, if you glue the aft cant frames) Hope this will help you. Good luck! Daniel. In the shipyard: HMS Triton 1773. POF. 1:48. Daniel On the computer: R.A. Principe de La Paz. POF. 1:48. Daniel
kellrandy Posted February 9, 2014 Author #43 Posted February 9, 2014 (edited) Hi Daniel, thank you for the info. That's what I had planned to do for the sides, but was talking more about how they are shaped to make them parallel/horizontal to the keel. In the stern view on the plans, the joint is higher than the sides, they taper down. Are they tapered from the joint down as a whole? Or just from the line in the middle to the outside edge? The line down the middle I'm thinking is the taper line for the inside? Thank you! Edited February 9, 2014 by kellrandy
harvey1847 Posted February 9, 2014 #44 Posted February 9, 2014 Hi Randall!The ends are lower than the joint. I did so because that was what the plans showed. But if I had to do these pieces again, I would make them completely parallel to the keel. It's what I've seen in most of plans since.The truth is that they were a pain on the neck. Repeated a lot of them ... It is not the parts of the ship that I'm most proud of but re-do it now is out of my mind... You can see some pics on my log (1st page post #6)... Best wishes! Daniel. In the shipyard: HMS Triton 1773. POF. 1:48. Daniel On the computer: R.A. Principe de La Paz. POF. 1:48. Daniel
kellrandy Posted February 10, 2014 Author #45 Posted February 10, 2014 Hi all, back with a little bit more progress... The first set is the mounting to the board to get ready for framing. Since the build board is a pretty good size, I acquired some table legs with locking wheels so I could rotate it around to get to all aspects from any angle. Also, the mounting is set up the same way with as little in the way as possible without compromising security and support for the keel, stem, and stern. The second is the second go with the transoms, they're almost ready to glue in place, plus I have to remake filling #3, that's why it's not in the photos. I broke it in half while I was tapering it, oops. I learned quick not to cut the notch before I shape them, lol. Build board mounting... The transoms, test fitting... Have a good week everyone! Randall Long9Ron, aviaamator, Charlie1805 and 3 others 6
42rocker Posted February 10, 2014 #46 Posted February 10, 2014 Looks like you are off to a nice start. Enjoy Later Tim Current Build -- Finishing a 1:1 House that I've been building for a while Current Build -- Triton Cross Section
kellrandy Posted February 13, 2014 Author #47 Posted February 13, 2014 Hi everyone! The rookie is back with yet another question... I've started shaping the aft frames that I have roughed out and was wondering about the angles of them. "Common sense" would say they are done on the floor futtocks to get the proper angle. Is there anything weird that I don't know about in the plans on the rest of the frame futtocks to achieve the angles necessary?
the learner Posted February 26, 2014 #48 Posted February 26, 2014 (edited) Try this it might help but only for the stern frames angles tilt sander_A4.pdf I do not remember where it came from, might be in the downloads or one of the group posted it Edited February 26, 2014 by the learner Cheers, GuyThe LearnerCurrent Member NRG,SMA Current Build: HMS Triton 1:48 on line
harvey1847 Posted February 27, 2014 #49 Posted February 27, 2014 Guy... I drawed that one... Hope it has help you. Randall, those patterns are to set them on your tilt table of the disc sander. Have a look on the last post of Guy. It explain very well the process. To be honest on the stem cant frames I just tilted the table to the angle refered on the plans, sand a stick 15x15mm of pine first at that angle, put it against the deadwood and see if it was correct and if so, sanded the frame working as Guy,,, slooowly. I marked with pencil where the direction of the sanding were to go. TRY WITH SCRAP PIECES FIRST. Good luck! In the shipyard: HMS Triton 1773. POF. 1:48. Daniel On the computer: R.A. Principe de La Paz. POF. 1:48. Daniel
the learner Posted March 6, 2014 #50 Posted March 6, 2014 (edited) You forgot the stern! but yes they were a great help giving an almost an exact angle of the frame to the keel. I can't help it I have a slow and underpowered sander, the price was right! free lol Edited March 6, 2014 by the learner harvey1847 1 Cheers, GuyThe LearnerCurrent Member NRG,SMA Current Build: HMS Triton 1:48 on line
kellrandy Posted March 16, 2014 Author #51 Posted March 16, 2014 Hi everyone, been a while, but I have also been busy making the aft can't frames and they're ready to start raising. Not to many pics this time around. In one of my research books, it was stated that the frames were bolted with 1" copper bolts and also anchor chocks were placed in-between the futtocks. I did the bolting, but not the anchor chocks on the aft cant frames as I couldn't see exactly how to cut them into the futtocks before I faired them in. I do intend to place them into the square frames though. Next up is raising the aft frames them moving on to the fore cant frames and hawse pieces, then fill in the middle. Thanks to Guy and Daniel very much for the help with the angles, they worked out really well. I'm all set to start raising them. Have some good scrap pieces to make the support block spacers and some walnut for the gunport lintels & sills, and a set of braces for the top to set the correct width. Until next time... Aussie048, harvey1847, aviaamator and 2 others 5
kellrandy Posted March 17, 2014 Author #52 Posted March 17, 2014 (edited) Hi guys, rookie is back again... So, I was all excited to raise my first frame, #28. Got the ends of the transoms prepped and ready to go then came the test fit with some rubber bands and as you can see from the pics, the width is way off. I have no idea where this error came from or how to fix it yet. If I push them out, to get the brace in-between, I won't even be able to attach it to the transoms. What boggles my mind even more, is that it fits fine on the template. Any thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I hope the blacking out is ok for the copyright stuff as I don't know how else to get my explanation of the problem across. Thanks in advance guys... View from fore: View from stern: Plan View (assembly) Edited March 17, 2014 by kellrandy harvey1847 and Aussie048 2
Matrim Posted March 17, 2014 #53 Posted March 17, 2014 Looks nice, I also like the wood choice (grain shows nicely in the photos) ...
mtaylor Posted March 17, 2014 #54 Posted March 17, 2014 I must be missing something as I don't see what the problem is. Can you highlight it on the photos? Mark "The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me Current Build: Past Builds: La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD Triton Cross-Section NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Non-Ship Model: On hold, maybe forever: CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned)
kellrandy Posted March 17, 2014 Author #55 Posted March 17, 2014 I edited the previous post adding in some annotations on the photos. Basically what I'm worried about is the breadth between the frames. The brace shown was cut to the width shown in the assembly plan for the frames and is the same one in all of those photos.
kellrandy Posted March 18, 2014 Author #56 Posted March 18, 2014 Well, I think I figured it out. It started with the keel and trimming to fit the keel plan. That means I pretty much have to start over yet again. I'm really on the verge of giving up completely. We'll see how I feel about it in a few days. Right now, I'm done and completely defeated.
SketchupModeller Posted March 18, 2014 #57 Posted March 18, 2014 I also don't see a problem. You have correctly cut the frames to match the pattern. When installed, the frames will be angled to sit against the ends of the transoms. When angled like this, the top ends of the frames will be closer together than they originally appear on the pattern (I think this is your main concern, please correct me if it isn't). Consider it this way: lay a book open on a table, then watch how the distance between the corners decreases as you close the book. The pattern is printed as if the 'book' were wide open, so that you cut the frame to the correct shape, and during installation the 'book' is partially closed. Hopefully this helps explain why your spacer block fits with the frames on the pattern and not with the frames installed. Brandon Current project: HMS Pandora (1779) CAD build
kellrandy Posted March 18, 2014 Author #58 Posted March 18, 2014 Thank you for that explanation, I do see it now and does make sense, but the stern portion is pretty bad. Earlier in my build, I was having a lot of issues with the keel plan versus what came out from the cutting templates for the keel, deadwood, transoms, etc. They were all about too big versus the keel plan, so I cut the parts to fit the keel plan. Now, on the framing jig, the frames are not fitting the deadwood at all because now it's all too short. I could get 28 & 27 to fit on their step, but the rest were pushed too far out and off of their steps. I also made the template for the steps from the keel plan. Comparing them to the cutting template, they're pushed too far back. I thought my plans were printing out too big, but now I can surely see they are coming out fine. So I'm glad I can get over things quickly. Here's my plan, re-do the stern portion. I'll remake the last two sections of keel so it's right and the deadwoods stop at frames #19 for the stern and Q at the fore sections as this is what the DOF shows. Then redo the stern post, inner post, deadwood, and transoms, trimming only to the cutting templates as I did on the stem. I believe this will put me back on the right track, I hope.
druxey Posted March 18, 2014 #59 Posted March 18, 2014 Is the bevel on the inner face in the correct place? Looks 'off' from what I can see in your photos. The widest side of the bevel should sit on the line of the pattern under it. Be sure to sign up for an epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series http://trafalgar.tv
kellrandy Posted March 19, 2014 Author #60 Posted March 19, 2014 No, I haven't done any beveling on the frames yet. I just cut them to the widest part of the templates like I have seen done in other logs. I plan on doing the beveling after they're up. All I have done so far with them is setting the angles on the floor futtocks.
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