Cutty Sark by Kevin-the-lubber - Revell - 1:96 - PLASTIC

[bcochran]

On 5/20/2022 at 1:11 PM, Snug Harbor Johnny said:

  The Surprise (guess that name will be permanent, with the popularity of the film ... too bad they did not make the sequel) was originally the HMS Rose - famous in Colonial Rhode Island history.  It was independently build (by contract) by a good friend of mine, John Fitzhugh Millar (now of Williamsburg, Virginia) back in the early 70's.  This was around the time the repro. of the sloop Providence was built in preparation for the Bicentennial.  John explained how expensive maintaining and sailing a ship the size of the Rose (now Surprise) can be, and although leased for a couple films (one of which was Man Without a Country), sold and repossessed twice - he was lucky to about break even when a sale finally went through.

 

  John did come away with a real treasure - for he met his future wife Cathy while conducting sea shanty sessions aboard the Rose, and the couple run a B&B in Williamsburg to this day, where the inestimable JF Millar has written a number of books on colonial history, architecture and art (13 Colonies Press).  

I know it was the HMS Rose.  I visit it often in San Diego.  The bell still says ROSE on it.  The San Diego Maritime Museum calls it the Surprise. It was closed for a while until the new deck was finished.  I wouldn't need the model to be called  Surprise.   I like that era and size of man-o-war over the ships of the line and large frigates.  There isn't a plastic model of one.  Lord Thomas Cochrane was the real Master and Commander. He might be my relative.  My ancestors came from just west of Paisley, Scotland.  Our motto is "Success Trough Endeavor".  That is what I need to complete my Cutty Sark.

 

Edited May 23, 2022 by bcochran

[Ian_Grant]

Hey, I was born in Paisley!  Parents emigrated when I was four. My brothers and I went to see our old address when we went backpacking years ago.

[bcochran]

1 hour ago, Ian_Grant said:

Hey, I was born in Paisley!  Parents emigrated when I was four. My brothers and I went to see our old address when we went backpacking years ago.

We are planning a visit maybe next year.   Hopefully covid is gone for good then.

[Kevin-the-lubber]

I think I've figured out why the deck is too high on revell. The hull bows out / bulwarks lean in, whichever you prefer, in the central section and as revell appear to have preferred a laterally segmented deck, it wouldn't have been possible to fit this if it was 5 mm lower. There wouldn't have been any clearance across the bulwarks. This also explains why the waterways are moulded in when, ideally, the deck would have butted up to the hull. I doubted that this was a simple error, there would have been too many eyes on it for that, and this feels like the sort of sensible compromise you'd make if you were aiming for the kit to be relatively straightforward for your average 13 or 14 year old to build.

[Kevin-the-lubber]

I ran out of paint for the hull at the weekend - I can't think why I thought one small bottle of vallejo metallic would be enough - so while waiting for more to come I've been finishing off a host of bits and bobs.

 

This is the main hatch, borrowing the partially covered idea from Rob's Ferreira. I want a bit more contrast, colour-wise, on the deck but I'm not sure I'll keep the planks this colour, might try something darker. Still need to make the lifting hooks as these would have been pretty heavy. Not entirely decided about the front hatch - planked like this at the moment but I might try making a tarp at some point.

Booby hatch, with a ladder once glued in place. I've gone about as far as I'm willing research-wise on the hatch and in the end made some guesses.

Buckets. I tried doing real ropes but got fed up after about 30 seconds of trying to tie a knot in the right place on 0.2mm rope. What hope is there for me when it comes to rigging! It doesnt really show up but I tried to replicate the carving on the underside of the lower rail. I painted the tops of the posts using a gold acrylic paint pen - I first crush the tip to get it more 'brushy', then sand it back to a more pointy shape. I love these pens, they deliver just the right amount of paint and the 'goldiness' is really, well, 'goldy'.

Trial fit of the new pinrails

Pinrails painted and inked, awaiting a painted hull. Must remember to varnish them first. I've had to write myself an assembly sequence/checklist which I'm following religiously, as I realised I have to glue the deck and quarterdeck assembly in before these, else they won't go. This is where I regret a day of frustration a couple of weeks ago that saw me glue one of the cabins in place, just to feel like I was getting somewhere, even though my inner voice was saying "don't". It'll be a pain working around that. I've shifted the holes for the deadeyes & belay pins inwards to try and give myself just a little more room for doing the lanyards.

This evenings work. If I coloured it black all you'd see is a blob, so it's racing red for now. I noticed on photo's that the inners of the tubs are painted red, but I expect that's just for show. Just need to make the handles and we'll see how it prints. Unlike the winches, this will be rigid i.e. non-working. It was tempting, but you have to curb the enthusiasm at some point and I'll be happy enough if it prints okay. I made pumps that work like this back in the day, in Kenya. Great fun.

[Ian_Grant]

Kevin, nice pump!  Will this really print in one piece in resin at this scale?  I'm impressed! I drew better Jarvis winches for Preussen a while back, but my brother's 3D FDM printer couldn't make a nice job of them.

 

Again, I really like your wood-look painting.

Edited May 30, 2022 by Ian_Grant

[Kevin-the-lubber]

6 hours ago, Ian_Grant said:

Will this really print in one piece in resin at this scale? 

It would, but I’ll most likely print in three parts: the body, and the two wheels + handles. This would be tricky on FDM, I’d probably have to use use brass wire for the crankshaft and conrods but even so, doubt I’d get a quality of finish to make it worthwhile. I might even have to do that for this one as the shaft and rods really ought to be about 0.5mm at most to be in scale, but I’ll see how it looks when printed. 
 

I enjoy the painting more than anything, when it goes well. Still struggle to map the colours in my mind with those in the pots, but that will hopefully come with experience.

[shipman]

Lovely job, making and painting the booby hatch. You would think it was real wood.

[Bruma]

Wonderful job on the pin rail! 

I assume you have 3d printed them, are they in resin or fdm? If in resin, make sure to reinforce them on the lower side, as you know, resin tend to be brittle.  How do you get the ship curvature right to model them properly? 

[Kevin-the-lubber]

12 minutes ago, Bruma said:

Wonderful job on the pin rail!

Thank you, I've been following your build, and a few others, and learning a lot. Yes, resin, I don't think I could have got the lozenge sections with FDM as at their thinnest they are only about as thick as a sheet of paper. I've used an ABS-like resin which isn't very brittle at all unless you really abuse it. The plan is to run brass rods glued into the bottom of the deadeyes, through the pinrails and glue into the waterway/bulwark junction. This should avoid any real pull on the pinrails themselves. But I'll also be epoxy glueing the pinrails to the bulwarks in between the lozenges - I've masked these areas on the bulwarks and tested it on scrap so hopefully that'll be strong enough.

 

To be honest I'm not sure I remember how I got the curvature in the end, probably just using the Campbell drawings. There's more than enough give in them to curve to match the model hull, without distortion.

 

1 hour ago, shipman said:

Lovely job, making and painting the booby hatch. You would think it was real wood.

I have to be honest - this was the best of three, where I tried out different combinations. sand coloured primer, raw sienna basecoat, burnt sienna wash and windsor & newton nut brown ink. All done using a brush this time as airbrushing small things is so much messing around.

[Kevin-the-lubber]

First print. A little bit of tweaking should see it right, the crankshaft is a bit too heavyweight, you'd want a couple of Popeye's on steroids to get this going (and good luck getting it stopped). 

 

[Ian_Grant]

Fantastic!  I should have asked you about printing me some Jarvis brace winches......if you ever do a Preussen/Potosi/Passat/Pamir you will be able to improve the kit's offering.😉

[Kevin-the-lubber]

5 hours ago, Ian_Grant said:

Jarvis brace winches

Complicated looking things. I think at 1/150 you’d be hard pressed but at something like 1/72 they’d look great.

[bcochran]

Looks to me like you will have the most highly detailed Revell Cutty Sark there is online anywhere.  I am envious of your skills.  I know for myself, if I tried to put that much detail into my model, I would never finish it. 

[Kevin-the-lubber]

There won't be that much more detailing, I think. I am on a bit of a roll though, it's like 18 months of learning Fusion 360 and 3D printing is starting to pay off, such that I'm now able to make most things quite quickly and easily. I made this tiny little poop bell last night while waiting for the bilge pump to finish printing. A year ago this might have taken me hours. This is so small and fine that the single coat of gold paint has bridged the space in the little scrolls. The 'pin' just above the tweezers is 1mm dia. The thing is, there is nothing that complicated on the Cutty, especially with having the Campbell plans in very high resolution.

 

[rwiederrich]

3 hours ago, Kevin-the-lubber said:

There won't be that much more detailing, I think. I am on a bit of a roll though, it's like 18 months of learning Fusion 360 and 3D printing is starting to pay off, such that I'm now able to make most things quite quickly and easily. I made this tiny little poop bell last night while waiting for the bilge pump to finish printing. A year ago this might have taken me hours. This is so small and fine that the single coat of gold paint has bridged the space in the little scrolls. The 'pin' just above the tweezers is 1mm dia. The thing is, there is nothing that complicated on the Cutty, especially with having the Campbell plans in very high resolution.

 

Unbelievable.  Just draw it up and print it out.......Man.

 

I build everything from scratch....typically one-off.   the only time I had to make many of a thing, was the monkey winches for the Great Republic....six of those bad boys all exactly the same.

 

But this.......this is just stunning and quite detailed.  Gonna put me outa business.      Oh wait......I ain't in the buiz....

 

Great job Kevin.

 

Rob

[Kevin-the-lubber]

Rob, you would have an absolute blast if this was your thing. But I have a feeling you might not find it very satisfying. I look at your work on the Glory, Bruma's yards, Dafi's Victory, Marc's Soliel, and countless others, and wish I had those skills. However, it's not a bad way to learn stuff or try things out. And for those of us who make mistakes at every turn while we're learning, it's heaven. Stuffed it up (yet again)? No prob, just print another. You should see my scrap bin, especially last year's. 

[Kevin-the-lubber]

A question now - this metallic black paint is all very well but it does make things look like they've just been unloaded off the factory lorry. How do I make them look a little more aged... weathered I guess? (The gold stays as it is, hands off my shiny bits 🤪)

[rwiederrich]

43 minutes ago, Kevin-the-lubber said:

A question now - this metallic black paint is all very well but it does make things look like they've just been unloaded off the factory lorry. How do I make them look a little more aged... weathered I guess? (The gold stays as it is, hands off my shiny bits 🤪)

One trick is to dry brush...but that can be technique sensitive.  I use chalks...or Cerium oxide in my case.  Chalks are simply scrubbed across a fingernail file(Hobby version)...collect the dust.....then brush the dust on the dark black item....it will weather and fade the color...spray with dull coat sealer if you like.

 

Rob

[rwiederrich]

1 hour ago, Kevin-the-lubber said:

Rob, you would have an absolute blast if this was your thing. But I have a feeling you might not find it very satisfying. I look at your work on the Glory, Bruma's yards, Dafi's Victory, Marc's Soliel, and countless others, and wish I had those skills. However, it's not a bad way to learn stuff or try things out. And for those of us who make mistakes at every turn while we're learning, it's heaven. Stuffed it up (yet again)? No prob, just print another. You should see my scrap bin, especially last year's. 

Printing when all the cad work is done on the computer is done sounds fun.  Watching your item materialize in front of you is cool for sure....but designing it on the computer isn't.

Reminds me of astrophotography....you don't just aim your scope and camera at a celestial object and *click*.  you have to stack hundreds if not thousands of images....add in *blacks* to keep the dark dark and *lights* to keep the lights light...then a little(A lot actually) computer wizardry...you can produce a wonderful image of a galaxy, or some other deep space object.

The process is more computer work then actual photography as we know photography.

 

Same goes for 3D printing.   And the cost of a good printer is problematic for some.  However, my 50 years of acquired kills, makes most scratch building easy for me.

 

Rob 

[DocRob]

1 hour ago, Kevin-the-lubber said:

A question now - this metallic black paint is all very well but it does make things look like they've just been unloaded off the factory lorry. How do I make them look a little more aged... weathered I guess? (The gold stays as it is, hands off my shiny bits 🤪)

You could apply some iron pigments with a cotton swab. My go to metal pigments are from Uschi van der Rosten, because these are the finest. Another fine weathering product ar AK's weathering pencils. They are special, because you can apply them dry like chalks or dampened. Oil colors are also very useful and on a pump like yours, which is painted matte or semi matte, you can work some gloss onto oiled parts or where spills occur.
These are only some ideas which originate from my plastic modelling background,
BTW.: Yor Cutty Sark looks great with all the detail. I will savour your log with a bit more time.

 

Cheers Rob

[Kevin-the-lubber]

Thanks for those suggestions. I found some graphite powder a while back in the 'making' drawer, along with loads of drawing and watercolour pencils, must belong to the other half because I can't draw to save my life, but I'll experiment and get some chalks too this weekend.

 

Rob, I often find the printing bit quite hard going. Finding a way to place supports on tiny things can be tedious, getting them off at the end even more so. I printed the pump mk2 as one piece earlier, along with another three piece as insurance, and while I've proved to myself that it'll print well as one piece, I'd have to spend another hour on the supports for that to be practical as right now I've broken a couple of the wheel spokes during the cleanup. The fun part for me is the design work in CAD, as that's where you see the thing take shape in front of your eyes. You basically see absolutely nothing with a resin printer until it's done, sometimes hours later. Horses for courses though.

 

Astrophotography.... I haven't tried that yet. I was going to sell my telescopes as I hardly ever use them now, but thought I might give photography a go before I do. I started playing with (focus) stacking, on this model as it happens, two or three weeks back but initial results tell me I have some learning to do. I'd have to get my tripods and motors working properly first though, I've never managed to get a setup that tracked properly. Doesn't help that there's a damn great tree that blocks the pole star, from the only good observing spot in our garden.

[Kevin-the-lubber]

In place

[Ian_Grant]

3 hours ago, rwiederrich said:

<snip...snip>  However, my 50 years of acquired kills, makes most scratch building easy for me.

 

Rob 

Rob, didn't realize you moonlighted as a hit-man. 😄

[Kevin-the-lubber]

4 minutes ago, Ian_Grant said:

moonlighted as a hit-man

Missed that. But now you mention it, I may have a job that needs doing..... pm me, so no-one knows it was planned 🤣

[rwiederrich]

6 minutes ago, Ian_Grant said:

Rob, didn't realize you moonlighted as a hit-man. 😄

After 4-5 years of construction you might become an assassin.     
 

Rob

[Richard Dunn]

Not sure if this is of use to you Kevin but its built from the actual plans for the boats, I got them from the guy who did them for the restoration.

Needless to say, it's a 3d model

Edited June 2, 2022 by Richard Dunn

[Kevin-the-lubber]

Yes, that’s very useful Richard. It gives me all sorts of reference points. The paintwork is exceptional , isn’t it, both in execution but also choice of colouring. If I’d seen this two or three months back I think I’d have gone for that wood colour for all the furniture as it would contrast better with the deck.

 

I’ve muddled through to lofting the basic jolly boat shape and now need to do all the fairing, keel and detailing. Fairing in f360 is more complicated than in Rhino and I haven’t quite worked out the best way yet to translate your approach but I figure this is a good time to learn that, on something where it doesn’t matter too much if I’m unsuccessful. I realised the other day that, while the Campbell plans for the ship itself may not be completely accurate, the hi-res size means they will be excellent as line plans and modelling the hull would be no more difficult than the jolly boat. And I was going to ask you, unless it’s in the video, how to ascertain the deck curvature from the plans? Is the ellipse constant fore to aft?

[Richard Dunn]

If you are referring to the main, poop and fore deck yes the camber is a constant curve through its length, its also a parabolic curve not an arc but the difference is not worth mentioning, except I just did...............
the deck is developed through the centreline at its apex and the deck at the shell is whatever it is.

[Kevin-the-lubber]

Richard, I'm working off a scan of underhill's drawings of a jolly boat, which came from a book so has a bit of distortion. It's also fairly small scale so the lines become a bit fuzzy, even at 1:96 scale, when drawing the splines. I think I know the answer to this question but it's always good to check with an expert -  having translated the waterlines and station sections, the waterlines suggest profiles that are fairly different to the station profiles. In the picture below, showing the 2nd station profile, blue are the station lines from the drawings, green is the implied section based on the waterlines, the purple points are the projected intersection of the waterlines to the station plane. So, is this variance most likely just the sum of the translated drawings being a bit hit and miss through distortion etc? Or am I making a fundamental error in interpretation of the line plans?

 

Can I also check this logic with you - I'm inclined to follow the waterlines more than the station lines i.e. move the latter to the former, as I think this will naturally lead to a more faired hull. Is that the right/normal/sensible thing to do? In other words I more or less forget about the station lines from the line plans and let the waterlines give me station profiles?

 

 

 

One other thing - the line plans give me a plan view of the waterlines, which I'm working from, and a side view. Is that side view important, do I need to use these lines to get the right end result? The station lines do line up on the drawings by the way,