Decorative carvings on refit of captured vessel

[barkeater]

I'm building the U'nite 1797 as refit by the British. She was a captured French vessel. I have both the "as taken" and "as refit" plans. The dockyard removed a hog back cabin and railings on the weather deck and replaced the railings which shows in the refit drawings. My question concerns the Phrygian cap and bundled sticks on the stern. Since these are symbols of the French revolution would the dockyard have removed them? The refit drawings do not show the stern. It would have been a great ruse de guerre. I also don't know what I would replace them with since I would like to keep the same approximate size. Do I go with what I know was there before the refit or make something up? I'll probably go with the Phrygian cap and bundle but I would be interested in opinions. Thanks.

Richard

[druxey]

I suspect the Phrygian cap and fasces (bundled sticks from which we derived the word 'fascist) would have been removed!

 

Love the French style extreme tumblehome and hollow forefoot.

Edited February 6, 2022 by druxey

[allanyed]

I love learning these kinds of things that come out of a post Druxey.   Gratias tibi.

Allan

[Seahawk1313]

I agree with druxey with the removal of the Fasces and cap.  Maybe replaced with something simple and British? - Hal

[barkeater]

Thank you all for the input. I also feel that it was probably removed. Still trying to decide to replace it with something or let it stay. Does anybody have an idea as to what to replace it with which would be similar in size?

Richard

[druxey]

If wartime, I doubt any time or effort was expended on replacing any decorative elements!

[allanyed]

I suspect the name would have been removed as well as the RN did not allow names on the sterns except between about 1780 and 1790.

Allan

[Mark P]

The fasces, pronounced 'fass-kays', was a symbol of authority in Imperial Rome. It is normally/frequently depicted with an axe head protruding from the side. As this was a well-known symbol, it was possibly allowed to stay. The Phrygian cap is again actually an old motif, and appears in mid-eighteenth century carvings. It is not unreasonable, though, to presume that its linkage with the 'sans-culottes' and the Terror would have tarnished it beyond acceptability. So perhaps the cap was removed, but the fasces retained.

 

All the best,

 

Mark P

[mtaylor]

Many times, as I understand it, the Brits left as much of the French carvings, etc. as possible.  The reason was stealth as a French looking ship could get in closer to the French ports for reconnaissance purposes.  Also cost would be an issue.

[barkeater]

Thank you all again for your input. I'm going to leave the carvings as drawn on the "as taken" plans since there is no absolute indication that they would have been removed and considerable opinion that they would have remained.

Richard

[uss frolick]

If they removed them, then why bother  to carefully draw them on the draught? I believe that they were left in place until the next major refit. They loved to taunt the enemy as well. So many “as fitted” plans show that the sometimes heavy French carvings have been retained, like the Frigate L’ Immortalite.

 

When the RN refitted the damaged American Frigate Chesapeake in 1814, the were so proud of their capture that they actually replaced the Undamaged billet head with a full length figurehead of a woman representing America, wearing a Stars and Stripes cape!