Cutty Sark by bcochran - Revell - 1/96 - PLASTIC

[bcochran]

What kind of glue do you use

[bcochran]

Well, the port jib boom guys are on.  I don't think I will win the award for excellence in rigging.

Edited June 15, 2022 by bcochran

[Kevin-the-lubber]

Going back to that chain for the anchor, Bruma did a short thread a while back that has an excellent real life photo, search for ‘Cutty sark anchor” or something like that. To my great surprise the chain does go over the rail. I’d have thought this would see it saw through the woodwork in no time at all as, no matter how tight it’s rigged there’s bound to be some movement while out at sea. At the very least I was expecting to see it run through a fairlead in the bulwark and one on the rail.

 

The jib boom guys look excellent to me. I have no idea if they are rigged correctly but it looks convincing!

[bcochran]

2 hours ago, Kevin-the-lubber said:

Going back to that chain for the anchor, Bruma did a short thread a while back that has an excellent real life photo, search for ‘Cutty sark anchor” or something like that. To my great surprise the chain does go over the rail. I’d have thought this would see it saw through the woodwork in no time at all as, no matter how tight it’s rigged there’s bound to be some movement while out at sea. At the very least I was expecting to see it run through a fairlead in the bulwark and one on the rail.

 

The jib boom guys look excellent to me. I have no idea if they are rigged correctly but it looks convincing!

I took the jib boom guys off to redo. They did not look right to me.  I have no experience doing this kind of rigging. I am never satisfied with my first attempts. 

 

Bruma attached the chain to the outside of the bulwark, as Campbell shows.   I think I will do that also. 

 

I have to keep reminding myself that I have no deadline to finish and to take my time.  I am beginning to think that being finished should not be the goal, but rather being satisfied with my work at the place where I am is a good goal.

 

 

 

Edited June 15, 2022 by bcochran

[Kevin-the-lubber]

I feel another trip to Greenwich coming up. Despite taking a lot of photos, few of them cover the parts that currently puzzle me, including that chain. I've added rear bulwark fairleads on mine, just underneath the rail fairleads.

[bcochran]

So I am beginning to get into rigging.  I find reference books that describe what rigging goes where, though I haven't reached the point where I have a visual in my mind.  I am a visual person, meaning when I understand what I need to do, I can visualize it in my mind first.

 

Radimir at HisModel has taken Campbell's rigging plan and broken it down into types of running rigging, and he has color coded what blocks are needed where.   That's the kind of visual I need.  I need to spend a lot more time reading and studying Cutty Sark's rigging and clipper ship rigging, in particular so that I have that information available in my mind and can form a visual.

 

I bought all the blocks I need from Radimir, but I know nothing about how to strop them.  I haven't found any information on stropping blocks for this ship. In books, they show how an actual block was stropped, but that is little help for model ships.  Rigging this ship will be quite a learning experience for me.  I have mixed feelings about it.  I always have to take two steps forward and one back with these kinds of things.  I used to tell people that in model building, you have to trash a lot of kits before you succeed in building something worth keeping.

[Ian_Grant]

On 6/10/2022 at 10:36 AM, bcochran said:

What is amazing to me is that these relics from the past remain for us to admire today.   That these ships were built without the tools we have today just astounds me.  In my mind, I compare the methods of the builders in the 1700 and 1800's and what tools they used with methods and tools that would be used today to replicate those two ships exactly.  

 

In San Diego they have a replica of the San Salvador, the ship Cabrillo sailed here from Spain.  I watched them build it. It is in no way constructed like the real ship was.  Nobody has the skills used to build the original ship today.

Actually the knowledge is not completely lost. For example, in 1989 the Jamestown Colony laid down the keel for a replica of "Susan Constant" from 1607 with Brian Lavery as their consultant on wood shipbuilding of the day. An experienced crew of shipwrights took more than a year to do the job. I have a book "Wooden Ship: The Art History and Revival of Wooden Shipbuilding" by Spectre and Larkin which has many photographs of this authentic build in progress.

 

I also recall visiting "Victory" in about 1988 (?) when yet another refit was in progress, and watching some workers bending the largest teak? plank I had ever seen around the bows on the port side. In the rain. 😬

 

Keep up the good work!

[Kevin-the-lubber]

1 hour ago, Ian_Grant said:

Actually the knowledge is not completely lost.

That's true enough. For that matter, you'll find thousands of back street blacksmiths dotted all over Asia & Africa. And the skill level and ingenuity can be mind-blowing. I once had a labourer (we were constructing a training centre) present me with the most beautiful pair of handmade shoes.... not for wearing as they were wireframes, without a sketch or last in sight... and they fitted extremely well. 

[rwiederrich]

One thing to remember……..Cutty never went out on the open ocean with her anchors rigged in this fashion. The Fish tackle would be employed to hoist the anchors up and onto the forecastle deck and lashed down tight.   That loosely slung anchor would beat the ship to death. 
 

Also, use the kit supplied blocks.  You guys are new at this and they are acceptable an will release you from a lot of stress.   You will not become an expert with this one build…….but you will gain great experience and enhance your skills.  
 

Your builds are wonderful.  
 

Rob(just my HO)

[bcochran]

Here are more books and magazines that I have in my "library."  For many years I have wanted to complete a sailing ship.  I have never gotten as far as I have with this ship, thus I haven't read much on rigging. 

 

I plan to have a pretty good understanding of what is needed before I get deep into the rigging.  I am at one of my pauses.  While working on the jib boom guys, I broke off the port cat head tip.  I also broke off the starboard one a week ago along with the jib boom and martingale three times.  Each time I have recovered. I am kind of anxious to get away from that part of the ship for a while.

 

I want to redo some anchor rigging and the jib boom guys, but I am sitting it out for now.  I am going to read about rigging until the muse comes back.

[Kevin-the-lubber]

3 hours ago, rwiederrich said:

Cutty never went out on the open ocean with her anchors rigged in this fashion

That makes a lot more sense. The chain in question is a skinny little thing and I couldn’t see that lasting long in a rough sea. Nor the ship for that matter, with the anchors able to move.

 

I hear you Rob and know that’s good advice. For me, it’s finding the balance between, at the end, feeling this was a decent effort or feeling a bit disappointed and not even worth putting it on the windowsill in my workshop. In a perverse way, finding this site is the worst of blessings: once you see what people achieve here it’s all but impossible to just build from the box.

[bcochran]

Here is a question for rigging experts.   I want to add the jib boom guys.  Campbell and Hackney say they are 3 1/2 inch dia. wire rope on the real ship.   My rope guide says that 3 1/2 inch dia. rope in 1/96 is .98 mm. thread.   I have Amati rope of 25,50,75,100.  I assume that the Amati numbers are mm measurements of .25,.50, .75 and 1mm. 

If so the closest I have to .98mm is 1mm thread.  The main stay according to Campbell is 5 inch wire. That is off my guide which only goes to 4 inch wire and that equals to 1.12 mm in 1/96.  

 

With the thread I have, 3 1/2 and up would be 1 mm thread. That would not look right.   I picked the 50 thread for the jib boom guys because it looks right to me.

 

I am confused as to what thread to use

 

 

[Ian_Grant]

Hi Bruce - when ship plans and drawings list a size for rope or wire, the custom is to give the circumference not the diameter. A 3-1/2" DIA steel wire would be like an iron tree!

 

Does Campbell actually say "diameter"?  I'm guessing not.  If so, your "3-1/2" guys are about 1.114"DIA or about 1/4mm at 1/96.

 

The 5" main stay works out to about 1.6"DIA which would be about 1/2mm at 1/96. These large stays are doubled for added strength.

 

These threads seem small if you're accustomed to building earlier wood ships with hemp ropes.......steel wire delivers so much more tensile strength in a given diameter.

 

Keep up the great work! Do you have Underhill's clipper rigging book?

 

By the way, I agree with Rob about using the Revell kit blocks. They look fine when rigged and no stropping required! A little paint is even better.

Edited June 16, 2022 by Ian_Grant

[Snug Harbor Johnny]

  'Seems the thin plastic of the cathead whiskers and the martingale are easily subject to breakage.  Maybe thats why they've been replaced by metal in other builds.  Obviously, ship models are delicate by their nature and are easy to damage.  But some parts are more easy to break than others.  When done, a protective case makes sense - as dust accumulation is the long-term enemy of any model.

[bcochran]

3 hours ago, Ian_Grant said:

Hi Bruce - when ship plans and drawings list a size for rope or wire, the custom is to give the circumference not the diameter. A 3-1/2" DIA steel wire would be like an iron tree!

 

Does Campbell actually say "diameter"?  I'm guessing not.  If so, your "3-1/2" guys are about 1.114"DIA or about 1/4mm at 1/96.

 

The 5" main stay works out to about 1.6"DIA which would be about 1/2mm at 1/96. These large stays are doubled for added strength.

 

These threads seem small if you're accustomed to building earlier wood ships with hemp ropes.......steel wire delivers so much more tensile strength in a given diameter.

 

Keep up the great work! Do you have Underhill's clipper rigging book?

 

By the way, I agree with Rob about using the Revell kit blocks. They look fine when rigged and no stropping required! A little paint is even better.

Campbell says 3 1/2 inch wire not dia.  That was my mistake.  Yes I have Undehill's book.  3.5 / 3.14285 = 1.11 I get it now.

Edited June 16, 2022 by bcochran

[bcochran]

I got back to work and put the jib boom guys on.  I think that rigging will take me a long time to build up some expertise.   I don't particularly like the way these look but I am going to live with them. My clumsy hands aren't made for working around the plastic pieces sticking out.  So the old phrase "leave well enough alone" is important here.

Edited June 19, 2022 by bcochran

[bcochran]

Bowsprit and jib boom are rigged.  Now I can get on to the rest of the standing rigging, deadeyes, shrouds, masts and stays.

Edited June 22, 2022 by bcochran

[shipman]

Well done, it looks convincing to me.

 

What are you using for the rigging?

 

Though it's easy to let yourself become despondent, remember a few famous words (paraphrasing) ... you chose this project because it's hard, not because it's easy. Rigging this model is a challenge and judging what you've achieved this far, not only are you realizing this will be demanding, perhaps more than anything else you've done in the past.

Often it's worthwhile remembering how much you get focused on the task in hand. Think larger, sit back and look at the big picture. Eventually the details you may think aren't exactly what you were hoping for will disappear as things develop.

I for one admire your results and look forward to what is to come.

[bcochran]

I am using Amati thread I got from HisModel.  Thanks for the kind words.   One of my favorite movies is "A League of Their Own".   It is about the women's professional baseball league here in the U.S. during WWII.  The lead woman wants to quit playing because she says it's too hard.  The coach says, "It's supposed to be hard, if it wasn't hard, everybody would be doing it."

Edited June 21, 2022 by bcochran

[bcochran]

Here is something odd I found.  I am reading about the standing rigging.

 

Hackney says, "the first rope over the fore topmast head is the fish tackle".  Then he goes on to describe how to install it.

 

I did not know what a fish tackle is.

 

I looked it up in Ubderhill's book. He calls it the fish-tackle-burton or fish-tackle-pendant or fore-topmast-burton. He says, the fish tackle burton is used in all ships not provided with anchor cranes or davits. The purpose of the burton is to carry the fish-tackle used for getting the anchors over the bows for stowing on deck or putting them over when approching land.

 

Campbell's plans show a "portable anchor davit."

 

Underhill says in two pages before the above quote, "No mention has been made of tackle or burton-pendants on the lower mast, for they  were obsolete before the period covered by this book."

 

So my verdict is Hackney is wrong!  Cutty Sark had a portable anchor davit, and fish-tackle were obsolete by 1869.  Again it is up to you to decide.  But it takes researching a bunch of references to get there!  Not only is building the model a bit of a struggle, so is understanding the rigging.   The reference books I have are pretty complete as far as information goes, but I must take a bit from here and a bit from there to understand it all.

Edited June 21, 2022 by bcochran

[Kevin-the-lubber]

After the earlier discussion about the anchors I was wondering how they got brought inboard; there’s the answer.

[bcochran]

Here is a good explanation of how an anchor was brought on deck using a fish-tackle. Cutty Sark may not have had a fish tackle since per Campbell it had a portable anchor davit.

 

This explanation is from a book "Ship Models How to Build Them",  by Charles G. Davis about building a model of the Sea Witch, built in New York in 1846. Cutty Sark was built more than 20 years later in 1869.

Edited June 22, 2022 by bcochran

[bcochran]

I got these strops and 2.5 mm deadeyes from HisModel.  I will blacken them with a sharpie pen. There will be black wire futtock shrouds going from the bottom of the strop to holes drilled into the mast.  These will also be used on the pin rails on deck for the back stays. Wire from the strop will be glued to a hole in the water way.

Edited June 23, 2022 by bcochran

[bcochran]

My first attempt at futtock shrouds.  Not perfect, but useable.  As Shipman says, eventually you won't notice them.  When the lower shrouds are there, you'll hardly see them. Per Longridge the deadeyes should be closer to the edge of the top, but two holes were already there, so I used them.  I have to remove the slight bends in the wires.  They are soft metal.

 

The masts are not stepped yet.  I may go as far as attaching the yards before I glue the masts to the deck.  My plan is to detail the masts and yards, then attach the yards to the masts, step the masts then complete the standing rigging.

 

It is kind of pleasant not working around the fragile parts of the ship for a while.

 

Edited June 23, 2022 by bcochran

[Ian_Grant]

Looks very good!

[rwiederrich]

2 hours ago, bcochran said:

My first attempt at futtock shrouds.  Not perfect, but useable.  As Shipman says, eventually you won't notice them.  When the lower shrouds are there, you'll hardly see them. Per Longridge the deadeyes should be closer to the edge of the top, but two holes were already there, so I used them.  I have to remove the slight bends in the wires.  They are soft metal.

 

The masts are not stepped yet.  I may go as far as attaching the yards before I glue the masts to the deck.  My plan is to detail the masts and yards, then attach the yards to the masts, step the masts then complete the standing rigging.

 

It is kind of pleasant not working around the fragile parts of the ship for a while.

 

Good job...I waited to add the foot ropes to them until after I rigged the shrouds.....but adding details to the mast while it is off the hull....IMHV....is the best practice.  You can move the mast around with ease and can work freely, without endangering the finished hull and its workings.

 

Great progress.

 

Rob

[bcochran]

Thanks guys, I value your opinion.

[bcochran]

Campbell does show a fish-tackle.  I suppose it is up to the modeler to add it or not.

[rwiederrich]

As originally built, Cutty most likely had a Fish Rig.  Her anchor davits came some time later....along with many more mods.

 

Rob

[bcochran]

I found these instructions online which show how an anchor davit should be modeled.