HMS Beagle by Clementine - OcCre - 1:60 Scale

[Clementine]

2 hours ago, The Gimps Chimp said:

Hi Clementine,

 

Your model is progressing nicely.  The second planking is very thin and will follow every contour of the first layer.  It may be worth using a little more filler to get that really smooth finish.

 

Chimp

Thanks for the advice Chimp, im adding some more filler today and ill try starting the 2nd layer later on. if you have any advice in terms of the 2nd planking layer it would be greatly appreciated.

[The Gimps Chimp]

Hi Clementine,

 

Feel free to come an view my build log at:

 

What I found easiest was to start at the top and work down.  Bulwark planking is easy as it's flat and straight. I worked down into the centre keeping off the bow and stern where shaping is required.  Then I jumped to the bottom and worked up.  Again this is all relatively straightforward.  At the bow and stern wedge shaped pieces of planking can be cut and fitted to fill the gaps between adjacent planks.  You'll soon find the knack of cutting the correct angle.  Working up you'll eventually meet with your planking coming down.  This is where you will find some thin slithers, odd angles and shapes my be required, but by this time you'll be an expert of knowing how to cut these.  If you end up with small gaps then use a brown coloured filler.

 

As for gluing I applied PVA to about 90% of the centre of the plank and used a dab of CA at each end to hold it in position while the PVA dried.  I applied the PVA, fitted the plank then peeled back each end and applied the CA.  Pressed into place for 20 secs, job done.  I left a small gap between the PVA and CA as I'm not sure it's good to let them mix.  Maybe other will tell you different.  That's what worked for me.  I'm sure there will be some shouting NO!!! at all this and advise another way, I will be interested to see what others suggest.  This is only my second ship so I'm very much still learning.  

 

Good luck!!

Chimp

[Clementine]

1 hour ago, The Gimps Chimp said:

Hi Clementine,

 

Feel free to come an view my build log at:

 

What I found easiest was to start at the top and work down.  Bulwark planking is easy as it's flat and straight. I worked down into the centre keeping off the bow and stern where shaping is required.  Then I jumped to the bottom and worked up.  Again this is all relatively straightforward.  At the bow and stern wedge shaped pieces of planking can be cut and fitted to fill the gaps between adjacent planks.  You'll soon find the knack of cutting the correct angle.  Working up you'll eventually meet with your planking coming down.  This is where you will find some thin slithers, odd angles and shapes my be required, but by this time you'll be an expert of knowing how to cut these.  If you end up with small gaps then use a brown coloured filler.

 

As for gluing I applied PVA to about 90% of the centre of the plank and used a dab of CA at each end to hold it in position while the PVA dried.  I applied the PVA, fitted the plank then peeled back each end and applied the CA.  Pressed into place for 20 secs, job done.  I left a small gap between the PVA and CA as I'm not sure it's good to let them mix.  Maybe other will tell you different.  That's what worked for me.  I'm sure there will be some shouting NO!!! at all this and advise another way, I will be interested to see what others suggest.  This is only my second ship so I'm very much still learning.  

 

Good luck!!

Chimp

Thank you so much for the help Chimp! your help is greatly appreciated!

[Clementine]

started the 2nd layer yesterday with minimal issues, had to replace some putty with actual wood because of a concern i had with it being too weak but all is going good

also dont worry about the bank card its completely invalid and doesnt work anymore, i just use it to apply putty 

Edited May 13, 2022 by Clementine

[Techtonic]

On 5/12/2022 at 6:19 AM, Clementine said:

Thanks for the advice Chimp, im adding some more filler today and ill try starting the 2nd layer later on. if you have any advice in terms of the 2nd planking layer it would be greatly appreciated.

I finished my Beagle about a year ago, see my build log here https://modelshipworld.com/topic/28420-hms-beagle-by-techtonic-finished-occre-160/

 

I definitely recommend the method Occre show in their build videos using contact cement. I talk about it a bit in the first post of my log. The Occre 2nd layer planking is paper thin which makes the contact cement method work well. It is much quicker than other methods and the end result looks great. CA glue is problematic on this thin 2nd planking as it soaks right through which will give a splodgy appearance and your fingers will keep sticking to it. I tried it for the first few planks before switching to the contact glue method.

[allanyed]

I respectfully disagree with Techtonic regarding glue.  First, to many members "quicker" is an oxymoron to shipmodeling.  If speed is a criteria, ship modeling is not a good hobby to pursue.

 

From an article by the Oakwood Veneer Company.

Using contact cement to adhere raw wood is a complete failure waiting to happen for numerous reasons. Do not do it. Contact cement is more suited for use with synthetic laminates, like Formica. It is best to use a two-part resin or PVA glue adhesive when working with raw wood.

 

For me, epoxy resin is over the top for wood to wood, but PVA has a long track record for use with wood.  If the planking is spiled or otherwise tapered and shaped, finger pressure on the plank with PVA for 30 seconds will work.  If the plank is being slightly forced into place, PVA and a clamp of some sort for a few minutes will work.   If a lot of force is necessary, the plank has is not properly shaped.  Depending on what is important to you, study the planking tutorials here at MSW that will yield beautifully laid planking where every plank ends at the rabbet as they should, not coming to a point short of the rabbet.   

 

Allan

 

 

 

 

[Techtonic]

14 hours ago, allanyed said:

I respectfully disagree with Techtonic regarding glue.  First, to many members "quicker" is an oxymoron to shipmodeling.  If speed is a criteria, ship modeling is not a good hobby to pursue.

 

From an article by the Oakwood Veneer Company.

Using contact cement to adhere raw wood is a complete failure waiting to happen for numerous reasons. Do not do it. Contact cement is more suited for use with synthetic laminates, like Formica. It is best to use a two-part resin or PVA glue adhesive when working with raw wood.

 

For me, epoxy resin is over the top for wood to wood, but PVA has a long track record for use with wood.  If the planking is spiled or otherwise tapered and shaped, finger pressure on the plank with PVA for 30 seconds will work.  If the plank is being slightly forced into place, PVA and a clamp of some sort for a few minutes will work.   If a lot of force is necessary, the plank has is not properly shaped.  Depending on what is important to you, study the planking tutorials here at MSW that will yield beautifully laid planking where every plank ends at the rabbet as they should, not coming to a point short of the rabbet.   

 

Allan

 

 

 

 

Allan - I would certainly agree with your assessment for normal 2nd layer planking. But the Occre Beagle does not come with what would be considered normal 2nd layer planking. It is literally just paper thin veneer which is quite porous so the glue can soak through. I tried PVA glue, PVA glue plus CA at the ends, and contact cement. The contact cement gave the best results as it did not soak through the wood or bleed through the seems (some of which you can see between Clementines first two planks). The fact that it was faster was just a bonus. Also with the second layer being so thin it is not possible to do anything but the lightest sanding afterwards to clean things up.

[allanyed]

Techtonic,  Totally understood and thank you for the warning by pointing out another example of poor quality materials from this kit maker.  

Allan 

Edited June 13, 2022 by allanyed

[Clementine]

hey all, done a little bit of work, not much but thought i would show the progress and how im doing it. seems to be going well.

 

also thanks for all the advice, the CA glue seems to be working okay for me, i usually press the vaneer down with a craft knife so i dont get glue on myself and i believe the result after sanding down is sufficient as i did the same technique on my first model which also had a 2nd layer. will be working more on it today hopefully so expect a few more updates in the coming days 

[allanyed]

Clementine,

You may want to consider removing the planking below the wales before going further then study the great tutorials in the articles data base on how to plank a hull here at MSW https://thenrg.org/resource/articles and Chuck Passaro's four part video on planking (modelshipworld.com/topic/22975-chuck-passaros-planking-videos-where-are-they)  I know it easy to say remove the planks and not so easy to do, but what you have done is going to have planks coming to a point and not reaching the rabbet as they should.  They are sweeping up like on a Viking ship.   Look at some planking expansion drawings as well and you will see every plank lands on the rabbet at both ends.  In the drawing below the lower drawing is the outboard planking, the upper the inboard.   On the other hand, if you are happy with it as it is, go for it 😀  

Allan

[Clementine]

44 minutes ago, allanyed said:

Clementine,

You may want to consider removing the planking below the wales before going further then study the great tutorials in the articles data base on how to plank a hull here at MSW https://thenrg.org/resource/articles and Chuck Passaro's four part video on planking (modelshipworld.com/topic/22975-chuck-passaros-planking-videos-where-are-they)  I know it easy to say remove the planks and not so easy to do, but what you have done is going to have planks coming to a point and not reaching the rabbet as they should.  They are sweeping up like on a Viking ship.   Look at some planking expansion drawings as well and you will see every plank lands on the rabbet at both ends.  In the drawing below the lower drawing is the outboard planking, the upper the inboard.   On the other hand, if you are happy with it as it is, go for it 😀  

Allan

thats some top advice allan, thank you. ill have to apply this to my next model though lol i have already started putting planking on the bottom half of the ship and i dont really fancy back tracking at this stage. thank you though ill be sure to research up a bit more about this.

[The Gimps Chimp]

Hi Clementine,

I suffered a similar issue on my build.  After sanding I think it's not so obvious and looks okay.  As with most parts of the build it's a learning curve and hopefully we're all learning all the time.  It's great there are people here, like Allanyed, to point us in the right direction, and many thanks to them.  During my second build I've acquired so much additional knowledge and skills that I'm looking forward to being able to practice them in my third build.  Let's all keep learning  

Chimp

[Mike Dowling]

I absolutely agree about the glue. I have always used pva with maybe a dab of ca at the bow just to hold it. Contact glue is ghastly stuff! Always goes where you don't want it and a real problem to remove. My six penny contribution for what it's worth.

[The Gimps Chimp]

26 minutes ago, Mike Dowling said:

I absolutely agree about the glue. I have always used pva with maybe a dab of ca at the bow just to hold it. Contact glue is ghastly stuff! Always goes where you don't want it and a real problem to remove. My six penny contribution for what it's worth.

I guess it's 'Horses for courses', what suits one doesn't necessarily suit all.  As long as we can all find a way that works for our own style of building.  It's good that we have so many different options to choose from  

[Clementine]

some progress images, its going slow at the moment but atleast im making some

[Clementine]

more progress today, all there is now to the planking is to fill the holes, happy with how it turned out, ran into few issues that were fixable 

[Clementine]

one side is completed 

[Clementine]

2nd layer is done and sanded, glad to finally be done with it as fun as it was.

[Dave_E]

Nice Clementine! 👍😀 Are you painting or plating the hull?

[Clementine]

1 hour ago, Dave_E said:

Nice Clementine! 👍😀 Are you painting or plating the hull?

Im actually tied between leaving the draft its planking layer and the freeboard its painted scheme, or painting the freeboard and draft, but I have no idea what colour I would do the draft. I want to make the painting as historically accurate as I can possibly get with the kit so if anyone has any sources or pointers to what colour I should use it would be much appreciated.

Edited May 23, 2022 by Clementine

[Clementine]

sorry for all the updates recently I'm just making more progress and want to document the building of the ship in detail. have made tonnes of progress today and I'm very happy with how it turned out, will still be working on it for a few more hours and ill post an update tomorrow.

[The Gimps Chimp]

Hi Clementine,

Looks like the second planking turned out just fine.  You've done a nice job of fitting the rails too.

The one thing I would say I've found helps is, before fitting any timber just give it a light sanding to remove any fibres.  It's a lot easier to sand before fitting than after. 

Your build is looking good and coming along in good time.  At this rate you'll be finished before me  

Chimp

[Clementine]

almost done with the bulwark decorations just need to do some sanding of high spots then i can move onto the keel and painting!

[Clementine]

We have a keel!

also i believe i will be painting the draft of the ship the occre copper colour

Edited May 25, 2022 by Clementine

[Clementine]

started painting today, going to start with the white section first because its harder to paint over black with white

[Clementine]

1st black stripe 

[Clementine]

sorry for all the updates, im just really happy with how this turned out.

[Clementine]

some more update pictures

[Dave_E]

You must be retired. Your pace is incredible. 👍😀

Edited May 27, 2022 by Dave_E

[Clementine]

17 hours ago, Dave_E said:

You must be retired. Your pace is incredible. 👍😀

oh i wish, i just have tonnes of free time recently.