Cutty Sark by VitusBering - Revell - 1:96 - PLASTIC - Abandoned

[Ian_Grant]

Vitus I urge you to mount as many blocks as possible on the yards as it's much easier than adding them to yards already fixed to masts.

[gak1965]

YMMV, but you really want to put those blocks on before you cross the yards. Having to get in amid all of the standing rigging and whatever running stuff is in place to mount the blocks is asking for problems. Maybe leave off the brace blocks and pendants (they are on the yardarms after all) but if you are going to rig sheets, bunts, leeches, etc. I would put the blocks on now. Some people will even reeve the lines before they mount the yards (I feel like it would be difficult to estimate the amount of line needed but it definitely works for some).

 

Your ship, your choice, but something to consider.

 

Regards,

George K

[VitusBering]

Thanks folks; I will re-think adding blocks and pulleys before mounting the yards. I will have to do quite a bit of study - both in books and build logs, to determine which blocks to use and where to put them.

 

I've mentioned that I've built this Revell Cutty Sark before, in the mid-'80s. It was a hasty build and I didn't have a clue about the vessel or anything about model ship building. It was an accident. Here's how it happened.

 

In the early '80s I was a vain and clueless yuppie embroiled in the dot-com boom in the S.F. bay area. (I grew out of it, eventually). One of the side effects of that lifestyle was the peer pressure to have All The Things. One concession I made to that pressure was buying a new car. I got a brand new Mazda RX-7 GSL-SE. I bought it as a status symbol but pretty rapidly fell in love with the car. It was a pure joy to drive. I eventually sold it when driving a tiny sports car became impractical but I never lost my love for that auto.

 

But I digress. A few months into ownership of that car I went shopping hobby shops for a plastic model of it to display on the mantel. (I did say I was a vain bugger, didn't I). I looked high and low to no avail. However, one big box caught my eye. I'd never seen a model ship that large and for that reason alone I bought the kit and built it - again, rather hastily. It was barely presentable when finished but I kept it around. I wasn't very sad when it was destroyed by fire but I did mention to my wife more than once that the build process was one of the highlights of that time (we hadn't met yet).

 

I was looking just the other day on a hobby site for a new set of tweezers. My current ones are not hobby-centric and a bit unwieldly.

 

To my surprise I found an ad for an '83 RX-7. Mine was an '85 but the bodies are identical. So I've snapped it up and it will languish on the shelf until I get around to finding the time and inclination to put it together. I'm not exactly sure why I did that - nostalgia maybe.

 

At some point, I'm going to have to find a way to duplicate the root beer color of my RX-7 and maybe make some customizations to create an identical replica - moon roof, body insignia, Pirelli tires, etc.

 

 

Sorry for the long winded non sequitur. Back to the shop, where I have three spars fixed up with Flemish horses and footropes. Thirteen more to go...

 

[VitusBering]

So I'm in a holding pattern of sorts again - waiting on PE pad eyes to finish the stirrups for footropes. They're about half done but I ran out of those tiny pad eyes. I'm also waiting on styrene strips but that's not a blocking delivery. They're for the deadeyes that will line the railing once the rigging gets under way in earnest.

 

This is my deadeye jig MKII. This one shows much more promise than the last. The top rail will be about a third of this thickness. The bottom will have tabs added to align the rail, and both top and bottom will be trimmed at the marked lengths, discarding the vertical spacers. The kit's faux deadeye setup is pictured for comparison. The rails will be painted and the whole kaboodle will be tidied up of course.

 

Edited March 7, 2023 by VitusBering

[Ian_Grant]

Vitus, it's many many years since I built this kit, but I do remember that the kit provided deadeyes are spaced a ridiculously long way apart, about 7 scale feet or so. It would be better not to take them as a model.

 

Here's a pic aboard the ship. (God, that deck looks like a dance floor).

 

 

[VitusBering]

Thanks Ian!

The rails in my example above are for the ratlines and they are really long.

The others are shorter but none of that matters since I'm not using them.

 

Here's a comparison with one of the guys from the kit.

I painted him for practice and to use him as a guide to ensure my footropes weren't inordinately outsized.

Since I'm not using the kit parts I can space the rails as far or near as I need.

You were pretty spot on at 7 ft. or so, it seems.

 

Edited March 8, 2023 by VitusBering

[rwiederrich]

The real height of the deadeye lanyards looks to only be roughly the length of one’s legs to their waist……..if the Queen is to be our measuring stick.  The kit provided example is taller then a man is tall…. according to the kits measurements.  Something is horribly off, and I pic the kit.  
 

Rob

[VitusBering]

5 minutes ago, rwiederrich said:

Something is horribly off, and I pick the kit.  
 

Rob

 

Yep.

[shipman]

As previously mentioned in other build logs......the kit deck is set substantially too high in the hull.

[VitusBering]

All of the spars are finally gussied up with jackstays, footropes, and Flemish horses. The masts are planted.

I'm hesitant to attach the spars to the masts right now, it seems too soon.

Something tells me I should be working on stays or ratlines or both before attaching the spars.

 

None of the kit instructions are of any use, neither old nor new.

 

What do you folks think?

Edited March 11, 2023 by VitusBering

[Ian_Grant]

The old instructions' numbered rigging steps are in a sensible order. Generally work from the centreline out, from bottom to top, and fore to aft. I like to attach lines which terminate on the deck (as opposed to gunwales) early on then rig them in reverse ie pass them up masts through whatever blocks and tie off up there; my big clumsy hands have problems reaching in through rigging to tie off a new line at the deck.

[VitusBering]

Thanks Ian. I think I'm just trying to get over the jitters. I am going to attach the spars and go from there, probably starting with the stays.

 

I'll have questions - for example the instructions don't show how the lower foremast stays that run from padeyes on the fo'c'sle to just under the mast top are tied off to the mast. I need to look closely at other build logs and I'll figure it out eventually.

[Ian_Grant]

Checking my old CS rigging sheet, I see the way the stays are wrapped round at the masts is wrong. Diagram 1 shows the lower stays wrapping around the base of the topmast...WRONG...they should wrap around the back of the head of the lower masts they are purportedly bracing. The stays may pass over the front rims of the tops, or they may pass through the lubber's holes to get a straighter line; I don't know which scheme the CS employs.

 

Same story at the crosstrees - wrap around the topmast head, NOT the topgallant mast base. I see to my regret that the teenaged me followed these instructions. Maybe I should do another CS, with modern wood decks.

 

If you have Underhill he has a myriad of rigging details.

[VitusBering]

I do have the Underhill book and I'm studying it even as I read your post. Thank you very much for the info.

I'll try to use the books and museum drawings I have to answer questions but I am sure glad you and the rest of the folks here are... here 😉

Thanks again!

[VitusBering]

Now the fun begins in earnest.

 

 

I'm unsure whether to start on ratlines or standing rigging first.

Edited March 12, 2023 by VitusBering

[hof00]

4 hours ago, VitusBering said:

Now the fun begins in earnest.

 

 

I'm unsure whether to start on ratlines or standing rigging first.

Looking good!!

 

My opinion for Rigging order, and my opinion only....

 

• Shrouds/Ratlines - Aft and up
• Standing Rigging - Aft and up
• Running Rigging
• Pendants/Braces

 

Entirely up to you.... 🙂

(More importantly, whatever works for you.)

 

Cheers and Regards,

 

Harry.

Edited March 12, 2023 by hof00

[VitusBering]

Thanks Harry! Running rigging and braces will definitely be after standing rigging and ratlines.

Starting from aft - that wouldn't have been my first choice but when I think on it, it makes sense.

 

I am not sure what works for me, by the way -- I've never really done this before.

I did build this kit almost 40 years ago but it was, quite frankly, a mess.

It looked OK but only to a naïve eye.

 

I'm glad you folks are here and so willing to share expertise, I couldn't do it without you.

 

This model is not destined for a display case, either. Oh, I'll do my best and it will most definitely be better than the last but I have lot of notes about what to do and, more importantly, what not to do next time.

 

That being said, I am having more fun doing this than any other hobby I've ever tried.

 

So... onward and thank you again.

[hof00]

3 hours ago, VitusBering said:

Thanks Harry! Running rigging and braces will definitely be after standing rigging and ratlines.

Starting from aft - that wouldn't have been my first choice but when I think on it, it makes sense.

 

I am not sure what works for me, by the way -- I've never really done this before.

I did build this kit almost 40 years ago but it was, quite frankly, a mess.

It looked OK but only to a naïve eye.

 

I'm glad you folks are here and so willing to share expertise, I couldn't do it without you.

 

This model is not destined for a display case, either. Oh, I'll do my best and it will most definitely be better than the last but I have lot of notes about what to do and, more importantly, what not to do next time.

 

That being said, I am having more fun doing this than any other hobby I've ever tried.

 

So... onward and thank you again.

Sorry Chap,

By saying "Aft and up" I mean working from the Bow and working "Aft." 🙂

(I hope the Yards don't get in the way too much.)

 

Cheers and Regards,

 

Harry.

[VitusBering]

Oh, well OK then. I don't think the yards will get in the way, at least until I start working the running rigging.

I did consider adding blocks, pulleys, and maybe more before installing the yards but there are too many unknowns for me.

Maybe next time, when I am more sure of what gets connected where, that will be the way to go.

For now, I'll hope for the best and learn as I go.

[gak1965]

I would start aft and work forward. Going the other way is the mistake I made on the Flying Fish. The issue is that if you have forestays that mount onto the mast further forward the attachment points become harder to reach once you have shrouds and backstays on the more forward mast.

 

Agree on bottom to top, although I found that the most effective thing was to reeve everything, and then tighten at the end. In some cases (I.e. if the royal/sky sail spar needed aligning) I would start tightening at the top, but generally I followed the bottom up approach.

 

George K

[VitusBering]

Thanks George. I've started at the bow, with the foremast stays and head gear rigging.

I may take an alternating approach and go aft after these few are done.

 

Though I haven't started on shrouds or ratlines yet, access seems fairly easy so far.

I didn't install the trailboards yet and I'm glad I didn't - there are eyes under there that would be nigh impossible to reach.

I also haven't glued down the fife rails, there are a few stays that would be hard to reach otherwise.

 

This is great fun. I am sure I'm doing some things that are not canon - I have a semi-limited set of rigging ropes (the Amati set that was supplied by HISModel). The ones I'm using look right and I suppose that counts.

[gak1965]

3 hours ago, VitusBering said:

This is great fun. I am sure I'm doing some things that are not canon - I have a semi-limited set of rigging ropes (the Amati set that was supplied by HISModel). The ones I'm using look right and I suppose that counts.

 

I'm sure it will be great. Anyway, rigs changed over the life of a ship (often just when a new captain came on board), the specific pin to anchor a line that is shown on plans is just someone's guess as to what made sense - probably changed for some lines throughout the voyage. The point is to build something you are happy with and continue to improve, and she's looking great. Just swapping out those plastic deadeye lanyards will make a huge difference.

 

Good luck,

George K.

[VitusBering]

10 hours ago, gak1965 said:

[...]Just swapping out those plastic deadeye lanyards will make a huge difference.

 

Oh, my yes. I'll be starting on the foremast ratlines today and that means wiring up 20 of those tiny wooden deadeyes.

I do have a nice jig I've cobbled together and a plan for installing them - but you know what they say about plans.

It will all work out, I'm sure. Thank you again.

[VitusBering]

Well I've had my most disappointing failure so far. No damage done, just time ill spent.

I thought I had worked up a nifty plan to wire up ratline shrouds by making a little platform where I would anchor the deadeyes and install it on the pin rail where the original plastic crud is supposed to live. That failed badly before it even got a chance to be tried so now I'll do what I should have done before the pin rails were glued in. (noted for future builds).

 

I'll drill holes in the rails to anchor the lower deadeyes by threading them and tying them off under the rail to Evergreen material I have around.

I'll do the same for all of the deadeyes that need to live on the rail, but it begs some questions.

 

My earlier failed plan included deadeyes that had stop knots on both the lower and upper eye. That's fine (I thnk) for the lower eye but for the upper where a shroud will be attached - that doesn't seem right to me but I am unsure what to do as an alternative. The kit instructions are no help of course, they use that plastic crud and the full scale methods I've seen in the books (at least so far) don't seem really practical.

 

I'm open to suggestions on any and all of the above, this is uncharted territory for me.

 

I'm awake at this hour because sirens and emergency vehicles showed up at my neighbor's home. False alarm, of sorts, the lady of the house's elderly father is visiting from Montana and he fell while navigating an unfamiliar house. Nothing is broken, just a bruise or two. After the excitement we're having trouble getting back to sleep.

[Ian_Grant]

The usual way to rig the shrouds with deadeyes is to attach the lower deadeyes, with method depending on the ship. On earlier ships they'd be attached to the chainplates. If I understand you correctly, you plan to attach them to evergreen strips which will then be hidden beneath the rails? Sounds ok.

 

To rig the shrouds, seize them in pairs around the masthead. If you are feeling ambitious the portion of the shrouds wrapping around the mast can be served. Once all the shrouds are attached at the masthead, the upper deadeyes are seized at their lower ends. The trick is to maintain a constant separation between the deadeye pairs. There are many examples here of little jigs with pins that insert into a hole in each deadeye to hold their spacing as the shroud is wrapped around the upper deadeye's groove, and seized in place. The final step is to reeve the lanyards. I understand you are trying to reeve the lanyards first to make it easier but I don't think it is often done. One reason for this, perhaps less critical on the CS as opposed to an 18th century warship with many more shrouds, is that as you progress aft, the changing angle of the shroud wrt vertical means that a constant vertical offset between deadeyes needs an ever-increasing length of lanyard between them. Hard to explain in words but I hope you see what I'm getting at.

 

The ratlines are painfully added manually, once all shrouds are in place, via many many clove hitches and a striped paper jig behind the shrouds to ensure constant ratline spacing. Prepare to spend hours and hours.

 

As an interesting aside, Heller kits like Victory and SR provide the deadeye pairs set a distance apart by the sprue with the idea being that you can easily reeve the lanyards first. But then, given the nature of two-part molds, the upper deadeyes cannot be molded with the groove so they are nearly impossible to rig; most builders buy after-market wooden deadeyes. I did for my Victory. Heller also provides a "shroud jig" which purportedly simplifies forming the shrouds and ratlines off the model then attaching. Few builders use it; most do it the manual way as above.

Edited March 16, 2023 by Ian_Grant

[Snug Harbor Johnny]

  'Saw a clear demo on the 'sew' method for ratlines (it may have been part of the USS Tennessee log 1:96 scale),  The shrouds/deadeyes are done first, of course (and some save the ratlines for last to make other rigging easier).  A sewing needle is used to pull ratline thread through the shrouds (with paper marked for horizontal ratline spacing fastened with clips behind the shrouds) from whichever side one is comfortable starting with (RH vs LH).  Then everything is adjusted, and after all ratlines are in place and tweaked, a tiny bit of one's glue of choice fixes all the joints (thinned PVA vs CA), with the very ends clipped close with flush cutters.

[gak1965]

3 hours ago, Ian_Grant said:

via many many clove hitches and a striped paper jig behind the shrouds to ensure constant ratline spacing. Prepare to spend hours and hours.

 

I'm with Ian here. Print a sheet with lines spaced 14-16 scale inches apart, cut out, attach to shrouds to give you a pattern. I lack the skill and patience to do clove hitches, I just use simple overhand knots that I secure in place with a little CA glue. I find I can do 5-6 rows, and then carefully position and secure with the glue. I'll then move to another set of shrouds while the first batch sets, and then I can nip off the excess on either end.

 

3 hours ago, Ian_Grant said:

Heller also provides a "shroud jig" which purportedly simplifies forming the shrouds and ratlines off the model then attaching. Few builders use it;

 

That shroud jig is an abomination. I tried it on my Passat and it was a complete disaster, nothing stuck properly, I gave up and made them the way Ian describes (and that I've done on all of my subsequent ships).

 

 

As Ian notes, there are a lot of simple jigs people make to do the spacing. This is a common method; it's from my Niagara kit and I've used this method on three ships now. Also as Ian notes, methods like this keep the lanyard spacing the same, they don't keep the upper deadeyes in a line. It may not be a problem, but if you notice a bend in the line of the upper deadeyes and it bothers you, you may want to space it with this, and then adjust ever so slightly to maintain the line better.

 

Regards,

George K

 

 

 

[Snug Harbor Johnny]

  Ahh, lacing the deadeyes ...  With the CS the lower ones are inboard and below the gunwale.  Many other ships have presious little room between lower deadeyes on the channel and the hull.  This makes me thin k that I  might try 'rough lacing an upper deadeye to a lower one BEFORE mounting the lower deadeye on the channel.  Just as cannon tackle have the free end on the line wrapped around the sheaved lines between the blocks to keep them neat, I plan to do the same with the free end of the deadeye lacing line before mounting the lower deadeye to the channel.

 

   A shroud with a loop seized on one end goes through the lubber hole and over whatever mast section  to braced, then the free end will be put around the upper deadeye , snugged and tied so it can still be adjusted.   Then the lacing line can be adjusted (taking up shroud line as needed on the upper deadeye) until the desired position of the upper deadeye is achieved.  Then proper seizing is done for that shroud around its upper deadeye.

 

   The other side's 1st shroud is done concurrently to the above.  The (in pairs) the other shrouds are done in turn, and the upper deadeyes should all be fairly parallel to the gunwale at whatever height chosen.

[Ian_Grant]

4 hours ago, Snug Harbor Johnny said:

  'Saw a clear demo on the 'sew' method for ratlines (it may have been part of the USS Tennessee log 1:96 scale),  The shrouds/deadeyes are done first, of course (and some save the ratlines for last to make other rigging easier).  A sewing needle is used to pull ratline thread through the shrouds (with paper marked for horizontal ratline spacing fastened with clips behind the shrouds) from whichever side one is comfortable starting with (RH vs LH).  Then everything is adjusted, and after all ratlines are in place and tweaked, a tiny bit of one's glue of choice fixes all the joints (thinned PVA vs CA), with the very ends clipped close with flush cutters.

Cool!  I may experiment with that to rattle down my "Preussen", whenever I get back to her. Occupied with another build right now.

[VitusBering]

Thank you all very much for your help and advice.

 

A while back I found a set of upholstery needles and I made one of these tools from one of them. I chose the mid sized needle from the set but I may go with the smallest one for the ratlines. So far the one I made has proven useful in several areas.

 

 

The 1974 version of instructions comes with a ratline template meant to be tacked down and have the ratlines built over it.

I'm not going to do that, I've seen too many folks have to start over after using that sort of thing.

All of the foot lines on the template for all examples are the same distance apart however so I did make this jig I found in the Masting, Rigging, and Sails forum.

 

https://modelshipworld.com/topic/14818-rat-line-tension-tool/

 

I'll give this a try, it seems effective.

 

 

Edited March 16, 2023 by VitusBering