HMS Beagle by RobTBay - OcCre - 1:60

[RobTBay]

Why HMS Beagle? Primarily it was the subject matter, I like the idea of building a ship of exploration. I already have an old AL Harvey kit on the go (or has actually been on hold!) for some time. I was looking for a kit with some semblance of good instructions and a prototype reference to guide me when I got stuck, but still left me some latitude to improve on things a bit. This kit build is really about learning for me, before I go back to the Harvey and seriously kit-bash the thing ...unless another ship catches my eye before then! 🙂 I still wanted a kit that would build a nice ship model, if I had to return to the kit instructions. I also wanted a kit that had some building activity already going on in the forum (past and current) to help me figure things out, get ideas to improve on what's there, or to just commiserate with over problems. 

 

I won't do a kit review, James H has already covered that, as well as in the build logs by Penfold and The Gimps Chimp. One thing I will point out, is that the "walnut" sheet in my kit is definitely hardwood, not walnut-stained plywood. And some build logs or comments talk to having plastic belaying pins, deadeyes and blocks, which in my version of the kit are all wood. So, I guess there may have been some changes to the parts in different production runs of the kit?

I like the parts bin provided in the kit, but the first day while looking through all the kit material, I caught the edge of the open parts bin and almost slid it off the desk! After visualizing myself having to crawl around on the floor trying to find all the little parts, I decided to sort the parts out into small craft ziplock bags and store them in a plastic bin that I think was intended for card collections (baseball, pokemon, etc.). I'll still use the supplied parts bin for sorting parts for specific stages of construction, but now there is no chance of me dumping all of the parts in one go! 

First step for me was to absorb myself in the instructions, parts lists (and other build logs) to really get myself oriented with what was what and where does it get used. It also allowed me to do thorough parts inventory ...possibly a little to thorough?? 😯 It took a bit of time, but I actually enjoyed the time getting to know the kit.

All the parts are present and there appears to be enough material to complete the build except perhaps if I use the amounts of 1 mm brass rod noted in the parts list, I then will run a bit short. Most of the dimensional wood and dowels should be sufficient, a couple may be close but should be enough as long as I am careful about how cut it up or don't make any major errors.

 

I did notice a small handful of typos in the parts list which could confuse things or cause you to run out of certain material unnecessarily ...I've noted those in my parts list and on the instructions to keep myself out of trouble later!

 

Now I need to go collect my thoughts about what I may want to change or add...

 

Rob

Edited January 9, 2023 by RobTBay

[RobTBay]

Beyond just wanting to enjoy building the ship, I wanted to use this build as a bit of a learning experience. Which is to say, I want to step outside the instructions a little and add some extra details or move a little closer to the prototype. Not that I don't think that the kit wouldn't build a nice model, just that I can see places where I could do a little more and learn a bit from trying. The kit design obviously made some simplifications to put the kit in the price point and a build difficultly they were targeting, nothing wrong with that. In the end I don't expect to build a museum quality piece or match the prototype exactly (as can be seen in many places around this forum!), I just want to try my hand at doing a little bit more.

 

One thing I've learned from my previous build attempts, is that never having enough time to spend on your projects leads to rushed work and simply having to accept however it comes out on the first attempt. I finally have some time that I can spare for building, which means I can also spare a little time for exploring and testing (or redoing if it doesn't work out on the first attempt!).

 

Having said all that, in my wish list of possible items to adjust or add, I can see that some of them should be well within my reach, and a few might be more of a challenge for me. My intent is to give them a try, but if I bog down or I'm not happy with my results, I'm giving myself permission to fall back to the instructions as written if necessary. I would rather complete a nice ship as per the kit instructions, than a nicer ship sitting unfinished on the workbench that I've gotten frustrated with. I'm going to try to build any adjusted/refined/added components, rather than just buying replacement parts. Otherwise, I should have just spent the money on a more detailed kit ...and I'll lose the learning opportunity of trying to do it myself (I may yet relent on that condition, but we'll see).

 

So, here's my list of possible adjustments or additions (which will likely change as I progress! 🙂)...

• The provided material for the deck boards is 5 mm, which would make them close to 12" wide at full scale. My understanding, and some course measurements from Marquart's Anatomy of the Ship, would suggest something closer to 8" would be more realistic (a little less than 3.5 mm at 1:60). So, I may cut the supplied deck boards down to 3.5 mm before installing.
• I also may cut the boards to realistic lengths before installing, rather than using pencil marks to indicate the end of the boards. The hope is that I will get a little better effect this way?
• Treenails ...to add or not? Well done treenails can be quite nice, but if they are overdone, they seem to detract from the model. In my (humble) opinion they should be a detail you see when you get close to the model but are not obvious from a distance. If I can do them subtly, then I'm happy to add them. If I can't do them subtly, then I plan to leave them out. I think a little testing will be involved here (and same with the use of the scale length planks as well).
• A lack of deck camber has been pointed out in a couple of the build logs (the deck in the kit is flat). I could adjust the frames to force a bit of a camber, but I am concerned that this may cause a domino sequence of additional issues and frustrations down the road in the build (all the components in the kit are designed to be installed with the assumption of a flat deck!). I think this is one I will leave alone. For the subtle gain in prototype accuracy, I may gain a whole lot of frustrations.
• The deck boards towards the bow on the prototype would have been joggled, which might be a bit finicky, but I think could be within my grasp to take a stab at.
• The addition of something to represent waterways along the edge of the decks might be a nice addition. I'll have to think a bit about how I would do that.
• The material for the hull planking is the same 5 mm width stuff, which again might be a bit wide (12" at full scale). So, once again, I may thin down the strips to around 4 mm (?) to bring them closer to about 10" at full scale.
• While on the topic of hull planking, I'm planning on trying to follow the articles/videos from David Antscherl and Chuck Passaro rather than the kit instruction's approach to planking.
• Cabin bulkhead planking again uses the same 5 mm material, which is likely out of scale. So, I'll try to thin it down a little to bring it closer to around 8" at full scale (3.5 mm?).
• The brass doors provided will either be painted or replaced with something I make from wood. 
• The brass windows will also be painted, and I want to try to provide some kind of "window" material behind the frame to reflect the presence of glass.
• In general, I'm not shooting for a brass and wood-stained finished model. Where appropriate a little brass may be present and certainly there will be places where there may be unpainted wood, but generally I'm working toward something that looks like the Beagle as it was in use. 
• The one exception to my avoidance of a vast expanse of stained wood might be in the coppering of the hull. I'm not sure I want to go through the effort to go with coppering the hull but will allow the stained sapelli (red brown) to represent the area of coppering, with the rest of the hull painted (which is probably the intent in the kit design anyway). What can I say, I like the look of stained wood ...I can have my cake and eat it to! 😁
• The canons in their stowed positions could be improved with a little bit of additional detail, which I will attempt to provide.
• When I work on the ship's boats, there may be some opportunity to provide a little refinement. The parts look to be a little chunky for scale. But I'll have to wait to see how difficult this will be at those small sizes.
• There is only one size of blocks (both single and double) and a limited choice in rigging line sizes. I may try my hand at making blocks to give me at least one additional size, but this might also precipitate the need to also come up with another rigging line size. So, perhaps I'll look at building a simple rope walk and try to make some rigging lines? This one might cause me to want to replace all the line ...which might become a bit of a project?
• The ever so slightly oversized deadeyes I can probably live with. The significantly oversized belaying pins will need something done. I will try to adjust their size a little (bring them a little bit closer to an appropriate size ...at least make them less objectionable). This may be the one place I simply buy my way out of the problem and order replacement belaying pins.
• There are some plywood parts in the deck fittings that could be fairly easily replaced with hardwood components. I don't plan to replace all the plywood but may selectively replace key visual items. I have basswood and maple stock at hand, so replacement wood is not a problem.
• I have seen some minor additional detail added to things like the winches and capstan in some of the build logs that goes a long way to improving their look ...not bringing them to complete prototype accuracy, but just enough additional detail to make a big visual difference.
• The anchor stocks are cast with the anchor shafts. I may think about cutting off the stocks and replacing them with wood ...or just doing a nice detail paint job to make them look more like wood? [Correction …the anchor stocks are cast separately, I don’t have to cut them off! 🙄]
• The hammocks in the hammock rails ...not sure what to do here. I can see they don't look terribly realistic as they are, but not sure if I have a good idea how to make them better without digging myself into another serious project. I think I will do a little experimenting and then decide.
• The brass wire approach to the scroll work can look decent if done well. But I plan on trying my hand at making the scroll work in wood. This may be one of those items where I go back to the kit instructions in the end, but I'll give it a try.

Wow, that list got long fast! 😬 We'll see how it all goes as I progress ...I'm sure there's other things I'll think of.

 

The one thing I'll have to remember is that I've given myself permission to fall back to the kit instructions before I get frustrated with the build. Try some new stuff, push my skills a bit, but more importantly have fun with the build even if I don't achieve all the items on my improvements list!

 

Now on to the actual construction...

 

Rob

 

 

Edited January 12, 2023 by RobTBay

[LucienL]

Hey Rob

That's an impressive list of stuff you're thinking about! You've definitely found a lot of limitations with this kit. I will follow along with interest. One of my biggest frustrations is also the cannons and boats (as well as the belaying pins).

 

I've also been working on this kit and trying to incorporate as many improvements from AOTS as I can. My biggest bottlenecks so far in terms of motivation, time and learning have been coppering the hull, making cloth hammocks and scratch-building the small boats (I also probably want to make my own sails).

 

 

 

 

[RobTBay]

My list might be long, but your shorter list (LucienL) probably has the more difficult items to address! I think I'm going to bypass coppering the hull, and I may try to spruce up the ship's boats but I'm not thinking of making them from scratch (...at least not yet!). I'm not sure what I'm going to do with the sails (leave off, put on, modify, make my own), I'm going to leave that decision to the future for now. The hammocks were something I kind of thought I wanted to address, but it wasn't until I read your build log that cloth hammock crossed my mind.

 

Before I ordered the kit, I read most of the OcCre Beagle (and Terror) build logs on the forum ...so I pretty much knew what I was ordering. I was considering a more detailed model (Vanguard), but I liked the idea for now of feeling comfortable straying off the instructions and adding my own touches. So, I don't see my list as a list of "limitations", but rather a list of opportunities ...we'll see if by the end of the build I'm still singing the same tune! 😄 

 

Rob

 

 

 

[RobTBay]

Working on the bulkhead framing. Started by making a temporary building board. I say temporary because the OcCre method is to add the keel/stem pieces after the hull planking is done ...and the keel parts are slightly wider than the internal keel/bulkhead frames. So, I set up a board with the initial spacing and then will modify or replace as needed later.

I cut notches in the building board supports so that it doesn't interfere with the bulkhead frames. I also added some lines on the keel frame as a visual reference to confirm the bulkheads were going in straight (used a square to add the lines before cutting the keel frame out of the parts sheet to ensure the lines were straight).

I used PVA to glue in the bulkheads and squared them up with a pair of small setup blocks (and used my reference lines to confirm). I did one bulkhead at a time, and then waited a couple of hours before removing the clamps and moving on to the next ...obviously I'm not in a rush! 😄

Looks like it all went together well. I added a little extra glue to the seams (just to make sure they were solid) and left it all overnight.

That step went well ...I haven't messed up so far! 

 

Rob

[RossR]

When I built the Beagle, I used the stand that came with the kit after the keel and stem pieces were attached.   I just covered it completely with painter's tape and after all the painting/staining and varnishing work was done I removed the tape and finished the stand.  Worked pretty well.  

 

The Beagle was my first model so I didn't stray from the instructions.  I like most of the things you are looking at doing to improve the model.  Good luck.

 

[The Gimps Chimp]

20 hours ago, RobTBay said:

Beyond just wanting to enjoy building the ship, I wanted to use this build as a bit of a learning experience. Which is to say, I want to step outside the instructions a little and add some extra details or move a little closer to the prototype. Not that I don't think that the kit wouldn't build a nice model, just that I can see places where I could do a little more and learn a bit from trying. The kit design obviously made some simplifications to put the kit in the price point and a build difficultly they were targeting, nothing wrong with that. In the end I don't expect to build a museum quality piece or match the prototype exactly (as can be seen in many places around this forum!), I just want to try my hand at doing a little bit more.

 

One thing I've learned from my previous build attempts, is that never having enough time to spend on your projects leads to rushed work and simply having to accept however it comes out on the first attempt. I finally have some time that I can spare for building, which means I can also spare a little time for exploring and testing (or redoing if it doesn't work out on the first attempt!).

 

Having said all that, in my wish list of possible items to adjust or add, I can see that some of them should be well within my reach, and a few might be more of a challenge for me. My intent is to give them a try, but if I bog down or I'm not happy with my results, I'm giving myself permission to fall back to the instructions as written if necessary. I would rather complete a nice ship as per the kit instructions, than a nicer ship sitting unfinished on the workbench that I've gotten frustrated with. I'm going to try to build any adjusted/refined/added components, rather than just buying replacement parts. Otherwise, I should have just spent the money on a more detailed kit ...and I'll lose the learning opportunity of trying to do it myself (I may yet relent on that condition, but we'll see).

 

So, here's my list of possible adjustments or additions (which will likely change as I progress! 🙂)...

• The provided material for the deck boards is 5 mm, which would make them close to 12" wide at full scale. My understanding, and some course measurements from Marquart's Anatomy of the Ship, would suggest something closer to 8" would be more realistic (a little less than 3.5 mm at 1:60). So, I may cut the supplied deck boards down to 3.5 mm before installing.
• I also may cut the boards to realistic lengths before installing, rather than using pencil marks to indicate the end of the boards. The hope is that I will get a little better effect this way?
• Treenails ...to add or not? Well done treenails can be quite nice, but if they are overdone, they seem to detract from the model. In my (humble) opinion they should be a detail you see when you get close to the model but are not obvious from a distance. If I can do them subtly, then I'm happy to add them. If I can't do them subtly, then I plan to leave them out. I think a little testing will be involved here (and same with the use of the scale length planks as well).
• A lack of deck camber has been pointed out in a couple of the build logs (the deck in the kit is flat). I could adjust the frames to force a bit of a camber, but I am concerned that this may cause a domino sequence of additional issues and frustrations down the road in the build (all the components in the kit are designed to be installed with the assumption of a flat deck!). I think this is one I will leave alone. For the subtle gain in prototype accuracy, I may gain a whole lot of frustrations.
• The deck boards towards the bow on the prototype would have been joggled, which might be a bit finicky, but I think could be within my grasp to take a stab at.
• The addition of something to represent waterways along the edge of the decks might be a nice addition. I'll have to think a bit about how I would do that.
• The material for the hull planking is the same 5 mm width stuff, which again might be a bit wide (12" at full scale). So, once again, I may thin down the strips to around 4 mm (?) to bring them closer to about 10" at full scale.
• While on the topic of hull planking, I'm planning on trying to follow the articles/videos from David Antscherl and Chuck Passaro rather than the kit instruction's approach to planking.
• Cabin bulkhead planking again uses the same 5 mm material, which is likely out of scale. So, I'll try to thin it down a little to bring it closer to around 8" at full scale (3.5 mm?).
• The brass doors provided will either be painted or replaced with something I make from wood. 
• The brass windows will also be painted, and I want to try to provide some kind of "window" material behind the frame to reflect the presence of glass.
• In general, I'm not shooting for a brass and wood-stained finished model. Where appropriate a little brass may be present and certainly there will be places where there may be unpainted wood, but generally I'm working toward something that looks like the Beagle as it was in use. 
• The one exception to my avoidance of a vast expanse of stained wood might be in the coppering of the hull. I'm not sure I want to go through the effort to go with coppering the hull but will allow the stained sapelli (red brown) to represent the area of coppering, with the rest of the hull painted (which is probably the intent in the kit design anyway). What can I say, I like the look of stained wood ...I can have my cake and eat it to! 😁
• The canons in their stowed positions could be improved with a little bit of additional detail, which I will attempt to provide.
• When I work on the ship's boats, there may be some opportunity to provide a little refinement. The parts look to be a little chunky for scale. But I'll have to wait to see how difficult this will be at those small sizes.
• There is only one size of blocks (both single and double) and a limited choice in rigging line sizes. I may try my hand at making blocks to give me at least one additional size, but this might also precipitate the need to also come up with another rigging line size. So, perhaps I'll look at building a simple rope walk and try to make some rigging lines? This one might cause me to want to replace all the line ...which might become a bit of a project?
• The ever so slightly oversized deadeyes I can probably live with. The significantly oversized belaying pins will need something done. I will try to adjust their size a little (bring them a little bit closer to an appropriate size ...at least make them less objectionable). This may be the one place I simply buy my way out of the problem and order replacement belaying pins.
• There are some plywood parts in the deck fittings that could be fairly easily replaced with hardwood components. I don't plan to replace all the plywood but may selectively replace key visual items. I have basswood and maple stock at hand, so replacement wood is not a problem.
• I have seen some minor additional detail added to things like the winches and capstan in some of the build logs that goes a long way to improving their look ...not bringing them to complete prototype accuracy, but just enough additional detail to make a big visual difference.
• The anchor stocks are cast with the anchor shafts. I may think about cutting off the stocks and replacing them with wood ...or just doing a nice detail paint job to make them look more like wood?
• The hammocks in the hammock rails ...not sure what to do here. I can see they don't look terribly realistic as they are, but not sure if I have a good idea how to make them better without digging myself into another serious project. I think I will do a little experimenting and then decide.
• The brass wire approach to the scroll work can look decent if done well. But I plan on trying my hand at making the scroll work in wood. This may be one of those items where I go back to the kit instructions in the end, but I'll give it a try.

Wow, that list got long fast! 😬 We'll see how it all goes as I progress ...I'm sure there's other things I'll think of.

 

The one thing I'll have to remember is that I've given myself permission to fall back to the kit instructions before I get frustrated with the build. Try some new stuff, push my skills a bit, but more importantly have fun with the build even if I don't achieve all the items on my improvements list!

 

Now on to the actual construction...

 

Rob

 

 

Hi Rob,

 

Wow, that's a long list!  Not wanting to make the list any longer but have you considered the rope?  I see that you now get wooden blocks, deadeyes and belaying pins so hopefully the quality of the kit parts are being improved.  If so, then maybe the quality of the supplied rope has improved.  The rope I was supplied was poor so I decided to make my own which I very much enjoyed doing.  Now I don't worry about being frugal with the rope I use  

 

You look to have made a fantastic start!  I'm following your build log with interest.

 

Chimp

[RobTBay]

@RossR  ...using the cradle is a good idea. Think I saw that in someone's build log, but I had forgotten that one. Thanks.

 

@The Gimps Chimp ...yah, I thought about trying to make my own rope. I'm just afraid of another rabbit hole to fall down! The line provided in the kit is okay. With a little treatment/prep it could well be used ...but your rope definitely looks better! And then I could have more variation is sizes if needed ...hmm. I suddenly feel the ground sliding under me ...I can see into the rabbit hole now ...ahhh! 😄

 

I'm trying to keep myself from just purchasing replacement stuff. I want to try to build up my skills. So, I may well be making rope (or at least making the attempt) ...but that's down the road a bit.

 

Rob

[RobTBay]

Picking up my build log from Post #5 which ended with "...I haven't messed up so far!" Well, I messed up! Out came the alcohol ...no, I mean to dissolve the PVA not the other! Luckily it wasn't really a big issue.

 

I was starting to add the filler pieces between the bulkheads along the keel frame, when I noticed that the last bulkhead at the stern (Frame #11) was slightly twisted. I was sure that I had checked it before I left it for the glue to set (and after I took off the clamps!), but apparently, I wasn't being as observant as I thought (lesson learned). The bulkhead frame wasn't out a lot, but given that it was the last bulkhead, where other pieces attach on the stern, I figured I had better fix it. I gave the rest of the bulkheads a real thorough check for good measure. They all seemed good ...except for one other that was out slightly. I might have been able to just go with the #5 bulkhead and correct the rest while fairing the frames, but if I'm taking off the stern bulkhead anyway, I might as well do both and save any potential addition headaches from occurring later. At the back of the photo, you can see the stern bulkhead (the twist doesn't really show up well since the twist is in the other direction) and in the foreground you clearly see the slightly wonky bulkhead #5. 

I reset the two bulkheads and made darn sure they were straight this time, and that they would stay that way!

They all look good now, and I've added in the filler blocks along the bottom of the keel frame toward the bow and stern. If you look carefully, you might also notice the last small horizontal frame to support the stern pieces is now also installed.

I had to adjust my building board a little to accept the keel frame now with the filler pieces. Which is fine, this was always meant to be temporary. Once I add the actual keel pieces, I will have to adjust it again or find a different solution. I like @RossR idea of just using the provided stand ...or I could use the stand pieces as a template to make a more robust building stand? I'll cross that bridge when I get to it.

 

Now it's on to planking the deck. I have to decide what plank lengths and offset I will be using, and whether I will try to include some of the other odd planks shown in Anatomy of the Ship. There appears to be a couple of wider binding strake planks along the edge of the deck houses and what I'm guessing is a wider king plank at the center. In section they appear to be raised slightly from the rest of the deck? Hmm?

From my reading, it would seem to make sense that they were thicker planks (raised from the rest of the deck boards), but I'll probably go a little simpler. It might cause headaches down the road fitting the deck furniture. I'm going for a little extra authenticity not necessarily strictly authentic! But making them slightly wider and changing the butt join shouldn't be a problem. I'm already going to make the deck planks slightly narrower than supplied in the kit to bring them a little closer to scale width anyway. So, leaving a few slightly wider shouldn't be a problem.

 

[Edit ...forgot to comment on plank length, etc.] I'm going with the 3-butt shift shown in Marquardt's Anatomy of the Ship. After trying to find information on deck plank lengths, I've decided to just go with what is shown in Anatomy of the Ship. That would appear to make them around 24 or 25 feet (with some variation), which translates to approximately 125mm plank lengths at 1:60. I figure if I generally do something along the lines of Marquardt's drawings, it will go a long way to looking better than the simpler OcCre instructions, even if it isn't perfect.

 

I still have to decide about treenails or not. So, first I'm off to do a little testing.

 

Rob

 

 

 

Edited January 11, 2023 by RobTBay

[RobTBay]

I've been quietly working in the background trying to figure out my approach to the deck planking. I was trying to figure out how to bring it a little closer to prototype scale and pattern.

After some playing and calculating, I figured that 3 mm plank widths (rather than 5 mm in the OcCre instructions) would give a better look and be close to prototype. That would bring the planks to around 7" wide at full scale. In my calculating, I also discovered that the OcCre kit main deck is about 6 feet shorter than what is drawn by Marquadt in his Anatomy of the Ship! Which means I had to play around with the deck plank layout a bit. I decided to put on an artistic eye and go for getting the right look, even if my plank layout has a couple of technical issues in it ...but I think it gives a prototypical feel.

I'm also going to include an 8 mm king plank (~19" at full scale), 4.5 mm binding strakes and margin planks (~10" at full scale). These may not be exactly correct, but they are doable and give a good approximate look. The king plank and binding strakes are only going to be included on the main deck ...if I understand it correctly, they would only have been installed on the main deck and not on any raised foredeck or quarter deck. 

 

The next problem is whether I had enough material to cut down the 5 mm sycamore provided in the kit to use as 3 mm width planks, or would I run out? After a little calculating, I think there probably is enough to do the decks but then there likely would not be enough for lining the interior of the bulwarks and other miscellaneous parts. Which means I would need to resaw some wood to make either the deck planking or bulwark lining. So, the question becomes ...can I resaw down to near 0.6 mm thickness to match the existing sycamore? I was pretty sure I could resaw maple or basswood (which I have on hand) down to 5 mm with some reliability, and possibly down to 2 or 3 mm. This led to some time in the shop making a lot of sawdust!

 

As it turns out, down to 2 or 3 mm is no problem. When I tried for something a little under 1 mm, all I created was sawdust, but I could manage 1 mm and by the time a had sanded the 1 mm boards, it got a fairly consistent 0.8 mm (with some small variation). I can make replacement boards, but probably can't mix and match due to the differences in thickness between the sycamore in the kit and the maple and basswood milled in my shop.

 

Also, could I actually plank at 3 mm? Time to make a test board! I think it turned out pretty good. It will certainly be more finicky and time consuming to install the 3 mm deck planks, but I think it will look a lot better.

The sycamore from the kit is not really a fair comparison in the image above, it hasn't actually been installed on the test board or varnished as the maple and basswood have (I just laid them down beside for comparison). From a distance I like the maple but close up the grain patterns shows up a bit which betrays the scale a little (at least to my eye). 

 

Now I just have to decide whether the deck planking will be the sycamore, maple or basswood? Not sure yet which I will go with ...any thoughts are more than welcome!

 

At least now I'm fairly certain that my revised planking plan is otherwise a go ...it will take a bit longer, but I think I will like the result. Now I have to go and sand the rest of the boards I milled! 

 

Rob

[RossR]

Very impressive.  Looking forward to seeing the results.

[RobTBay]

On 1/17/2023 at 8:25 AM, RossR said:

Very impressive.  Looking forward to seeing the results.

...I'm looking forward to seeing the results too ...this may take a while! 😬

 

I still haven't settled on which wood to use for the decking, but I have thickness sanded all the boards I milled last week. I set up a small drum sander on my drill press and a right-angle fence and a couple of feather boards. 

It worked pretty good! The wood for the deck planks is 0.8 mm thick (in both maple and basswood). The sycamore in the OcCre kit is nominally 0.6 mm but in reality is 0.5 mm thick. Since all the deck will be the same species and thickness, the difference doesn't look like it will make any differnce ...as long as I don't mix them together. While I was at it, I also milled and thickness sanded a little extra wood (both in maple and basswood) for replacement parts or additional items in 2.5 mm and 5 mm thicknesses. All together that should give me a good stash of extra wood!

I still have to settle on treenails or not. I think I am leaning towards not on these small 3 mm planks. I'm thinking it's going to start looking very busy and that might possibly become distracting...? I guess I will have to add some to my test board and see what happens.

 

Next I need to set up a jig to make sure I cut consistent 3 mm plank widths ...without nipping the tips of my fingers! I think I have a design in mind that is similar to the balsa stripper you see in the model aircraft forums. Back to the shop and see what I can create!

 

Rob

[allanyed]

Hi Rob

Just tuned in and congratulate you on your points in post #2.   You have spotted a lot of things that could use some improvements.

 

There are a couple build logs on building ships' boats in the scratch build forum that you may find helpful.  These center around a 23 foot launch but the methods can be applied to any type and size boat and as you have a thicknesser set up you will have an easy time of it.  

 

Treenails at your scale may be a challenge for the deck planking.  They would be about 0.015" or less in diameter.  For the hull they would be closer to 0.03" so doable but as this is POF, you will need to account for the 70 or so missing frames.  For trennals, when in doubt, leave them out.

 

Looking forward to your progress!!

 

Allan

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Whitebeard]

Looking good with the deck. I experienced the same decisions while planking the Beagle. All in all, I decided to use 5mm for the kings planks, and 3mm for the remaining ones, and tried to follow the patterns in the Anatomy of Ship as well. Looking forward to the next post.

[RobTBay]

On 1/18/2023 at 7:21 PM, allanyed said:

Treenails at your scale may be a challenge for the deck planking.  They would be about 0.015" or less in diameter.  For the hull they would be closer to 0.03" so doable but as this is POF, you will need to account for the 70 or so missing frames.  For trennals, when in doubt, leave them out.

...to treenail (trenail, trennel, trunnel??) or not to treenail... I played a little with my test board, and I'm not happy with my attempts at "faking" the treenails. And trying to put in actual treenails in these 3 mm width deck boards might be a bit tricky (at least for me! ). I'm having trouble making them look good (not overly obvious, too contrasty, or just winding up kind of messy) and at the same time to keep them to scale. So, I've decided I'm passing on that bit of detail (at least for this build ...I'll give actual treenails a go on the next one). I'm going to be putting in deck planks that are a close to scale, with appropriate joints, a king plank, binding strakes, margin planks etc., that "should" give a nice effect even without the treenail detail. 

 

My next challenge was cutting the 3 mm deck boards. I went to my local hobby store to see if they had a "balsa stripper" tool ...which they didn't currently have. I started to search the internet for one and came across the image of one made out of wood and thought "Hey, I can do that!". So, back to the shop and using some left-over pieces of maple I made a strip making tool. It's just a straight board (roughly 6" by 2") with a 1-1/4" wide dado for an adjustable crossarm and a #11 blade secured to the end of the arm. I put a couple of shoulders along the crossarm for good measure, but I don't think they were actually necessary.

I held the wood down with a metal cork-backed ruler (to keep my fingers out of the way of the blade!) and ran the tool down the edge of the board. The sharp edge of the hardwood tracked nicely, even with the wood only being 0.8 mm thick. That was a nice surprise, I thought I would have to come up with some way of guiding it at that small thickness. Generally, it worked pretty well. There was a couple of learning moments, but most of the planks worked out well. The maple strips took at least four passes to cut through (slow and easy keeps everything straight ...don't try to cut all the way through in one go). The basswood only took a couple of passes but was much easier to get carried away going quicker and then making a mess of the straight line! 

 

I've decided I'm going with the maple for the deck boards. I like working in the harder wood for detail stuff and should allow me better success at cutting nice, neat board joints (especially in the binding strakes and along the margin planks). 

I've got enough material in the various widths to start working on the main deck. First, I'm planning on laying out some guideline on the false deck. We shall see if the boards fall precisely on the lines, but at least they'll give me an indication if anything is going out of line and as a reminder as to where the board joints should be.

 

So, enough with figuring out what to do and manufacturing scale lumber, back to actually adding pieces to the ship!

 

Rob

[allanyed]

15 minutes ago, RobTBay said:

actual treenails in these 3 mm width deck boards might be a bit tricky (at least for me! ). I'm having trouble making them look good (not overly obvious, too contrasty, or just winding up kind of messy) and at the same time to keep them to scale.

In the end it is up to the model builder as to what they like.  I may be in the minority,, but I totally agree with your decision on NOT treenailing the deck planking.  I may have missed some, but so far I have not seen one build here at MSW, at this scale, with realistic treenailing on the decks.  

Allan

[ccoyle]

5 minutes ago, allanyed said:

I may be in the minority

 

I don't treenail, either, at the scales I work in. It's not because I don't like the look, which is fine when people do a good job of it. It's just that real-life treenailing is very subtle in appearance, and at scale viewing distances treenails are pretty much invisible. It's the same reason I don't do any sewing on my sails -- scale needlework is impossible to do.

[allanyed]

1 hour ago, ccoyle said:

It's the same reason I don't do any sewing on my sails -- scale needlework is impossible to do.

YES!!!!     

Not only needle work, using cloth can look pretty bad at times unless you get material with a TC at 1000 or more and the model scale is at 1:36 or larger.

 

Allan

[RobTBay]

Planking the main deck...

 

I started out by marking the false deck with the plank layout that I had devised to keep me running straight as a laid down the boards and as a reminder where I wanted plank butts to be, or the other various planks. In the picture below the king plank is already in place up the middle of the false deck.

It was about at this point that I realized that my deck plank widths were not as consistent as I would like. The cutting jig I created worked pretty well, but there was some occasional minor wandering of the blade as it occasionally caught a bit of wood grain (likely more of an issue with maple over a softer wood like basswood?). I did play with using a stiffer knife blade in the jig to retrim some of the boards but the jig really needs something like a heavy utility knife blade, which won't fit on the jig arm as it's currently designed (I'll have to make an adjustment to the jig for next time).

 

To even out the boards I stacked them with the one edge evenly together and taped the ends. I then used a cabinet scraper and a 2 inch wide piece of maple (3 mm thick) as a guide to scrape the stack of boards all to the same width. Only problem is that my guide board was closer to 3.1 mm. But I decided the boards were consistent and the width I had chosen was somewhat arbitrary anyway.

 

As it turns out my binding strakes were also a touch over the intended 4.5 mm. So, between the deck boards and binding strakes being slightly oversized, I needed one less deck board on either side ...which made my guidelines drawn on the false deck to being more of just a guide than an exact template. The image below shows the first few boards on either side installed (out to the first deck board outside the binding strake) and the margin planks installed to the outsides.

The keen eyed among you might notice the holes for the masts are slightly off center on the king plank. Sigh... . The holes are in the right place, but I managed to install the king plank ever so slightly off center. I didn't notice until I cut the holes for the masts (just before this picture was taken). There'll be enough stuff happening on the deck that I doubt this little flaw will be terribly obvious ...except to me!

 

From here things went along pretty smoothly with the regular run of deck boards. Slowly gluing on the individual planks with PVA and using a metal ruler to make sure the boards were snugged together as I set them in place. I shaded the edges of the deck boards with a "B" pencil to simulate the caulking between the boards. When I finally got to the margin planks, I had to stop and scratch my head ...how was I going to accurately cut the snipe planks? Also, my guidelines drawn on the false deck were now only a rough guide (due to the slightly oversized planks) and the snipe board locations therefore changed. I sorted it out by sliding in the next plank and then a measuring stick cut to 2 mm wide to find where the snipe would land. I'm sure I probably just re-invented a common method for doing this!  But it worked nicely.

To set the curve for the outside of the sniped plank I used a compass to rough a line from the outside of the margin plank, but cut slightly outside this line and then sanded the board to a precise fit ...lots of subtle sanding.

The sniped planks follow the general approach for the proper prototypical method, but I left myself a little artistic license to give the deck a good general look. The last boards on either side took the longest to install ...lots of fiddly little sanding. Here's the deck after the last boards were added.

And the main deck temporarily placed on the bulkhead frames and set next to the deck as adapted from Marguardt's Anatomy of the Ship. I think it's giving a pretty good impression. 

And lastly, compared to my original design drawing for the main deck.

Next, I have to sand and seal the deck before installing it on the bulkhead frames.

 

Rob

 

[Katsumoto]

This looks like a very nice bashing of a good kit. Great work on de the deckplanks and I'm looking forward towards the next building steps.
e.g. OcCre did made some alternations on their kits and upgraded some parts from stained plywood to solid "walnut". I think this is a good thing! 

[RobTBay]

Help! A Kraken has my ship! ...well, not really... 

I was actually just installing the main deck on the bulkhead frames. As I was planking the deck (off the frames) the deck took on a slight bend as the maple deck boards were added. I put some weight on the deck for a few days which pretty much returned it to being flat (or at least pretty close).

Then I tried various rubber bands and small clamps to make sure the deck would sit square on the frames, but most of what I had on hand wasn't really doing the job. Then I remembered I have a wood shop full of clamps! I put a small piece of wood across the deck to make sure the pressure was evenly distributed and gently tightened four big wood clamps around the hull ...my Kraken clamps! (see first photo)

 

After leaving it over night, I released the ship from the Kraken! It looks good and straight.

Here are a couple of photos of the deck installed...

And a close-up of the deck pattern...

All in all, I'm pretty happy with how the main deck has turned out. Now on to the forecastle and quarter decks ...or perhaps the main deck bulkheads? I'll have to decide which to do next. 

 

Rob

Edited February 10, 2023 by RobTBay

[Whitebeard]

A really nice job with the deck so far. As I've been working with this kit as well for some time now, I think you're the second person I know who's been using the AOS - Beagle book for such details. A really nice job!

[RobTBay]

Thanks Whitebeard!

 

I haven't posted much in the last couple weeks partly because I have been off researching how I will be altering the next steps! 🙂The "research" can get in the way of production time on the model, but I enjoy trying to figure out how things should look and what I could do to move in that direction with the model.

 

First, I needed to cut some more maple planks for the quarterdeck and forecastle decks. My cutting jig worked okay, but I'm not happy with the consistency. I'm planning to rebuild the jig, but since I only needed a few extra strips of wood, I thought I should focus on building the ship over making another jig! 😁I also have caught myself a couple of times trying to figure out ways to do everything at the modelling desk ...when I have a modestly equipped little woodshop downstairs! So, rather than re-inventing the wheel, it was off to the woodshop. I clamped a steel straight edge to the edge of the workbench and carefully adjusted the wood to the precise width I wanted, tightened down the clamps holding the wood firmly and cut the strips with a utility knife. Worked great, but a little slow finicky setup with each cut. But I didn't need too many pieces, so this was the easy way out.

I added some margin planks to the false decks of the forecastle and quarterdecks, and added some guidelines.

No king plank or binding strakes on these decks ...and all the deck planks will run the full length of each. Now I just need to add the newly cut planks ...with some sniped planks on the quarter deck and some joggled planks on the forecastle deck. I'll follow (with some artistic license!) Marquardt's Anatomy of the ship drawings [adapted drawings below].

I've also added the bulkhead framing under the quarterdeck and forecastle (that's just the forecastle deck and quarterdeck just laying on top of the main deck!).

That still leaves me with figuring out what I will do with those cabin bulkheads ...board widths, framing for the doors, framing at the corners, to stain or not, replace/modify the kit's brass doors and windows, etc. More research 🙂...and I think another post!

 

Rob

Edited February 23, 2023 by RobTBay

[Cathead]

Very pretty so far. Given your interest in researching and improving the kit, you might be interested in this reference I stumbled across when researching a possible Beagle build (so far on indefinite hold). It's a research paper on the boats Beagle carried, and while its online version is behind a paywall, you might be able to find a copy in a university library (or have them find you a copy) or contact the authors to ask for a copy (this often works for all sorts of research papers).

 

The Beagle’s pups: small-boat surveying expeditions in South America

 

 

 

[RobTBay]

Thanks @Cathead. I sent off a full text request to the author through ResearchGate…we’ll see what happens. 
 

Rob

[Whitebeard]

I keep looking at your work and wish I hadn't started work on my kit before you did. Great stuff. Correct me if I'm wrong, but have you made the same mistake as me, and made the second hole in the forecastle deck up in the very front, or was that intended?  

[RobTBay]

@Whitebeard …no I haven’t made that mistake …not yet! 🙂

 

In the photo in the previous post I hadn’t actually put on the planks yet …the lines are just “guidelines” I drew on. But thanks for the reminder …I could certainly see myself doing that! 😃

Rob

 

[RobTBay]

Doors and bulkhead planks have occupied most of my model thinking over the last couple of weeks. Well, I was actually working on another project, but I wasn't completely ignoring the ship! 

 

The doors in the OcCre kit are photo-etched brass parts, which the instructions just have you glue onto the bulkhead as is. 

 Well, that of course won't do ...that's too simple , and more importantly doesn't look right (since I'm not going for the varnished wood and brass look for this build). The plans from Marquardt's Anatomy of the Ship suggest something in about the same size, but with a slightly different look (modified plan image from AotS below). Also, a door would normally have some sort of a door frame (...done enough DIY home renos to know at least that much!), even on a ship!

So, my options are either to prime and paint the brass parts or build something out of wood to replace them ...and add a door frame in either case. Not being sure which way to go, I decided to test the two options by building one either way (at least a quick test build). I wanted to see if I could build a more accurate door that I would be happy with or just go with the painted brass part.

 

The wood door is a little more accurate to how a door is constructed, but even if you consider that I did a quick rough test job, it might still be difficult to match the fine lines from the photo-etched piece. I also would put a second coat of paint on the wood door if this was my final piece, to disguise the slightly out-of-scale grain pattern. Of course, any tiny part in a zoomed in photo is going to look a little rough, so the real test is with the doors installed ...so I temporarily placed the two doors in position on the bulkhead.

...and with the deck (and overhang) in place...

I could have done a more careful job on the test wood door, but I think I am still going to prefer the look of the painted brass part (even if it's not quite accurate construction). I think adding some kind of door frame really improves either option, so that is going to be a given. I'm leaning towards the painted brass part ...unless someone talks me out of it!  I think the door frames in the test are a little too dark ...I might be able to live with them as they are, but I think it will look better if I go a little bit lighter colour (give a bit of contrast, but just a bit).

 

Now, the planking on the bulkheads. The 5mm wood strips provided in the kit are just too wide. From the Anatomy of the Ship plans, it looks like something in the order of 7" to 8" would be about correct, which translates to about 3.3 mm at 1:60. Since I planked the deck with my own maple, I have lots of the sycamore strips from the kit to cut down without worrying about running out of stock. That decision is easy enough.

 

My last decision with the bulkhead planking is the colour. I wanted the deck to be a lighter colour than the surrounding wood (a holy-stoned deck and all), which means staining/painting the rest of the material (bulkheads, bulwark lining, skylights, etc.) some subtle contrasting colour, but not so much that it messes up the real contrast from the sapelli parts. Here is a composite image from the OcCre instructions to get an idea of the areas involved and the sapelli parts to consider...

...and some colour tests I was messing with laid out on the deck (that's a little piece of sapelli in the middle)...

Most of the colours I think are too dark, but I'm leaning toward a heavily thinned ochre brown or heavily thinned light brown. More of a stain to pull the wood off the bleached wood colour, but not hide the wood grain entirely. Enough to visually seperate from the maple deck, but not really appear dark.

 

If anyone want to venture an opinion, I'm always ready to listen. 

 

Now, while I make up my mind about those things, I have to get back to installing the deck planks on the forecastle and the quarterdeck.

 

Rob

Edited March 8, 2023 by RobTBay

[Whitebeard]

Hey, thanks for posting your update. Like I said before, I admire your precision and attention to detail, ans the fact that you're making your own pieces rather than relying on the kit in total. When it comes to the deck paint question, I only washed my decks with some linseed oil and airbrushed it with some satin varnish, worked nicely (here it is half-painted for comparison before adding one final plank to the front).

I totally get your idea with the doors (Not Jim Morrison's)...I've made mine as well, though at the time I still made the bits and bobs by hand. Now I'd just design them and 3d print them like I did with the canons and other smaller elements.

The kit guns and  other kit details are quite low quality in my opinion. If you'd like, I can send you the stl files  for print.  

[RobTBay]

@Whitebeard, thanks for the offer of the files ...but I don't have a 3D printer.  So for now, it's still making bits by hand! I have to admit it's cool what you've done with the 3D printing.

 

Rob