Miranda 1888 by goatfarmer11 - 1:12 scale - 42 foot Steam Launch

[goatfarmer11]

I have finally started rounding up materials to start my scratch build of Miranda, the 42 foot steam launch based on the 1888 Waterlily built and owned by the Thornycraft family to be run on the Thames.

 

To start with I needed to clean out a spot in my shed and build a bench for a workspace.  I got that done yesterday so now I have no reason not to get started. I got some insulation and chipboard up first behind the bench so I don't have to disturb anything when I finish insulating later on in the summer.

 

I now have the plans for both the boat and the steam engine and boiler to power it.  I plan to make this a RC boat so I am not taking it too easy on myself for my first build.  It was my understanding that this build was featured in Model Boats back in 1983 so I spent some time begging in a few forums and a kind gent named Larry was able to help me out with the complete article.  That will prove to be valuable in this build.

 

Then i was lucky enough to find this in the trash.  It is not the best one in the world but I am sure it will be very useful and the timing could not have been better.  I ordered some blades for it and it seems to work just fine.  It is a Dremel.

 

So far I have gotten the patterns traced and ready for cutting out.  The Keel is going to be made from Poplar and the bulkheads will be baltic birch plywood.  This is as far as I have gotten so far.  I am also awaiting the delivery of a mini table saw so I can begin cutting planks.  The hull will be planked in some Beech which I have had kicking around for 30 years or so and I am planning Mahogany for the deck and superstructure.  I may take a few liberties in her construction as this is my first build and I will be learning as i go.  She will not be an exact replica of Waterlily.

 

Any tips or tricks along the way will be greatly appreciated and I would appreciate any that want to join in for this ride.  I've no idea how long it will take to complete but I will likely be jumping around from wood to metal from time to time as the budget allows.

 

Denis

[Innisfree]

That saw looks like it was made before I was.  What a beauty!  Looking forward to watching this take shape.

 

Jack

[goatfarmer11]

Todays progress was fairly good.  I got the Keel and the bulkheads cut out and sanded.  I decided not to glue it yet because the glue I have on hand is interior glue and not waterproof.  Any suggestions for the best, easy to use glue for my project.  I am thinking titebond II perhaps.  Here are some photos of my progress.

[Innisfree]

Titebond III is outdoor rated and waterproof although the label recommends against prolonged submersion.  As I am certain that your completed work will be finished with something (polyurethane, varnish, epoxy, etc.), that recommendation should not be an issue.

 

Nice start to the framing! Will there be more intermediate frames? They would be useful to more accurately define the hull lines, provide contact area for hull planking, and improve overall rigidity.

[goatfarmer11]

4 hours ago, Innisfree said:

Titebond III is outdoor rated and waterproof although the label recommends against prolonged submersion.  As I am certain that your completed work will be finished with something (polyurethane, varnish, epoxy, etc.), that recommendation should not be an issue.

 

Nice start to the framing! Will there be more intermediate frames? They would be useful to more accurately define the hull lines, provide contact area for hull planking, and improve overall rigidity.

Unfortunately the plans do not call for more frames,  instead a layer of 1/64" plywood for sheathing...then planks over that.  It seems as though it will be a little tricky.

[Innisfree]

Well, there's that. Quite curious how this will turn out.

[goatfarmer11]

9 hours ago, Innisfree said:

Well, there's that. Quite curious how this will turn out.

I'm just not sure about how to create more frames accurately to the hull shape.  I agree completely it would be easier to have more but without drawings in the plans I am not sure I can accomplish this.

[Innisfree]

I completely understand and intended no criticism.   I was just being a smart alec. You must work with the resources available. Looking into my crystal ball, I see lots of sanding and perhaps some body filler in your future. 😉

[FriedClams]

Good luck on your first build, Denis.  A nice looking and interesting launch.

 

Gary

[Keith Black]

 Denis, I've pulled up a chair to follow your journey as steam era ships are my favorite. Are you going to glass the hull? 

[wefalck]

That's going to be an interesting project!

 

I am also surprised that there aren't any more bulkheads. The hull is rather sleek, but the distances between the stations are rather wide. It almost looks, as if the drawings were for a solid hull plug from which a negative form would be taken to laminate the actual hull into. With a solid plug, one would have enough 'meat' to fair the hull.

 

Good luck!

[goatfarmer11]

8 hours ago, Keith Black said:

 Denis, I've pulled up a chair to follow your journey as steam era ships are my favorite. Are you going to glass the hull? 

Thank you Mr Black.  I have been considering fiber glassing the hull but will not make up my mind until I see how strong it feels when I finish planking.  The original model build by Basil Harley was not glassed but he admitted to having a few planks come loose due to humidity changes. 

[goatfarmer11]

7 hours ago, wefalck said:

That's going to be an interesting project!

 

I am also surprised that there aren't any more bulkheads. The hull is rather sleek, but the distances between the stations are rather wide. It almost looks, as if the drawings were for a solid hull plug from which a negative form would be taken to laminate the actual hull into. With a solid plug, one would have enough 'meat' to fair the hull.

 

Good luck!

I understand what you are saying but this is exactly how the original was built by Basil Harley.  Thank you for your interest.

[goatfarmer11]

I spent a fair amount of time on Miranda this weekend but progress seemed slow.  I realized that my scale drawings aren't necessarily scale.  I spent time trying to figure out what was right and what was wrong.  I turns out the depths of the notches in the bulkheads  were not accurate at all so I either had to remake them or add some filler pieces. I opted for the filler pieces because it was faster and will not affect the strength or appearance of the finished boat.

 

I was a bit surprised to get to the workshop and find this fella sitting there.  He didn't say much, as a matter of fact I got nothing but his name out of him.  He just sat there quietly and watched me work.  Apparently he was enjoying himself because he was still sitting there when I turned off the lights.  His name is Bart apparently.

 

 

 

I spent some time in the sawmill and got some spruce cut to make stiffeners for the narrow part of the keel and around the prop shaft.

 

 

Then the rest of my time was spent to carefully calculate the positions of the bulkheads and to get them glued in place squarely and in proper alignment.  This proved to be much more difficult than I expected but I considered it very important.

 

 

 

And I also got the hole made through the bulkhead and the keel for the tube for the propeller shaft.

 

 

I was really hoping to get to the bulwarks and begin covering the hull with plywood but I guess that will have to wait.  At least I know what I am doing next.  As always thanks for the likes and comments.

 

 

[KeithAug]

On 3/27/2023 at 5:13 PM, goatfarmer11 said:

Unfortunately the plans do not call for more frames, 

My guess is that you may struggle with curvature. My worry is that the wide spacing will cause the curvature to tighten adjacent to the frames and flatten out between the frames. If I were taking on the project I would try to use the existing frame information to generate a series of horizontal sections and then use the horizontal section to generate more vertical frames. This may sound complicated but it is very easily done and can produce remarkably smooth hull contours. For a 42" model I think I would be typically looking for about 25 to 30 frames. However feel free to ignore me as trial and error is the fun part of the process and everyone develops their own preferred approach. Good luck.

[mtaylor]

What Keith suggested would be a good thing.   Also, you could just use filler pieces between the bulkheads and "carve" to fit.  The bow and stern may be problematic depending on what you have for plans.

[goatfarmer11]

15 hours ago, KeithAug said:

My guess is that you may struggle with curvature. My worry is that the wide spacing will cause the curvature to tighten adjacent to the frames and flatten out between the frames. If I were taking on the project I would try to use the existing frame information to generate a series of horizontal sections and then use the horizontal section to generate more vertical frames. This may sound complicated but it is very easily done and can produce remarkably smooth hull contours. For a 42" model I think I would be typically looking for about 25 to 30 frames. However feel free to ignore me as trial and error is the fun part of the process and everyone develops their own preferred approach. Good luck.

At this point I have to agree with you.  I've been trying to fit the gunwales and even after heat bending them I am having a hard time maintaining an even, smooth curvature from front to back and side to side.  Perhaps its time to dig out some card stock and see if I can produce more bulkheads to maintain the curves.  Thanks for the advice.

[KeithAug]

Denis

 

This is one of the better renditions of Miranda that I have seen.

https://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=12497.0

I am guessing you have already found it, but have you thought of contacting the builder and asking him what he did about defining / constructing the hull. I find that most builders are only too willing to share their knowledge.

 

I am planning to start a steam yacht in the next few months and it too has rather few defined frames so I’m quite interested in what you are doing.

 

 

[KeithAug]

2 minutes ago, KeithAug said:

. I find that most builders are only too willing to share their knowledge.

But unfortunately not from beyond the grave. RIP 😐

[goatfarmer11]

19 hours ago, KeithAug said:

Denis

 

This is one of the better renditions of Miranda that I have seen.

https://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=12497.0

I am guessing you have already found it, but have you thought of contacting the builder and asking him what he did about defining / constructing the hull. I find that most builders are only too willing to share their knowledge.

 

I am planning to start a steam yacht in the next few months and it too has rather few defined frames so I’m quite interested in what you are doing.

 

 

Thank you for that bit of info Keith.  Yes I have searched every Miranda I could find but unfortunately no build logs.

[goatfarmer11]

Ok...so here is where I am at now.  It's been a couple of difficult weekends trying to get the gun Wales fit and maintain a smooth, even curve.  I thought about throwing in the towel but I won't give up that easy.

 

What I did discover is the plans for this boat are not well drawn at all.  I mean no disrespect to Mr Harley but after going over things carefully I found the drawings for the bulkheads are not even symmetrical.  I thought at first that I did a sloppy job cutting but after remaking patterns I used only one half of the drawing and folded the paper to find some places were off by as much as 1/4 inch.  

 

I ended up redrawing all of the bulkheads and carefully added 5 more bulkheads.  It took me a long time to draft these but I think it will help. See the attached drawing and let me know what you think. 1,3,5,8 and 10 are the originals,  the others are my best interpretation. 

 

i would appreciate feedback before I cut these out. So for now I am basically starting over.

 

As always thank you for the likes and feedback.  I appreciate all of the comments.

[wefalck]

Did you develop a full body plan, with waterlines, diagonals etc.? That might be useful to check for unfair lines before you start cutting wood. It might also help to decide which half of the assymetrical bulkheads might have been the 'correct' one.

[goatfarmer11]

58 minutes ago, wefalck said:

Did you develop a full body plan, with waterlines, diagonals etc.? That might be useful to check for unfair lines before you start cutting wood. It might also help to decide which half of the assymetrical bulkheads might have been the 'correct' one.

Thank you Wefalck, I spent a fair amount of time deciding which half of the bulkheads were the correct ones.  Hoping I got it right.  As far as a full body plan with waterlines and diagonals...that is way beyond me.  I struggled to get this far so I think I will fly with it and hope for the best.

[goatfarmer11]

I've begun acquiring materials to start on Miranda's engine.  I can't believe the price of brass is so high.  At least it will be nice and shiny for a while.

 

 

[KeithAug]

2 hours ago, goatfarmer11 said:

As far as a full body plan with waterlines and diagonals

Denis. The horizontal sections are relatively straightforward. They will tell you a lot and should be quite quick to do. Is your reluctance based on a lack of knowledge of how to do this because if it is you can get help, just ask. If it isn’t a knowledge issue and you just feel more comfortable with a suck it and see approach this is also fine. Given the fairly simple lines of Miranda you will probably come up with an acceptable solution either way.

[KeithAug]

3 hours ago, goatfarmer11 said:

I've begun acquiring materials to start on Miranda's engine.

Denis,

 

Brass is fairly expensive but you can defer some of the cost by recycling domestic plumbing fittings as well as door furniture, stair carpet rods, brass weights etc, etc.

Edited April 16, 2023 by KeithAug

[goatfarmer11]

10 hours ago, KeithAug said:

Denis. The horizontal sections are relatively straightforward. They will tell you a lot and should be quite quick to do. Is your reluctance based on a lack of knowledge of how to do this because if it is you can get help, just ask. If it isn’t a knowledge issue and you just feel more comfortable with a suck it and see approach this is also fine. Given the fairly simple lines of Miranda you will probably come up with an acceptable solution either way.

I would have to say it is definitely lack of knowledge.  Keeping in mind this is my first build I still have a lot to learn.  I do feel relatively safe with what I have come up with because I am adding bulkheads between the existing bulkheads and it would seem the lines should carry to an extent.  Of course I will reserve the right to make any modifications as I go.

 

10 hours ago, KeithAug said:

Denis,

 

Brass is fairly expensive but you can defer some of the cost by recycling domestic plumbing fittings as well as door furniture, stair carpet rods, brass weights etc, etc.

 

I do have quite a bit of scrap material saved up as we speak.  Also a backyard foundry and sand casting abilities.  I am also working on learning vacuum casting as it does render the most highly defined castings.  At this point I have problems casting brass as the results are often full of voids.  Hopefully vacuum casting can help with that.  As always, thank you for your help.

Edited April 17, 2023 by goatfarmer11

[goatfarmer11]

Todays progress was slow but unlike last time I spent more time cutting the bulkheads to get them as accurate as possible.  I cut outside the lines and sanded to the lines.  I now have 10 bulkheads instead of 5 but after fitting them I can tell that the 5 extra that I created are not going to work well.  I do think I can modify them as I go but this will be a slow process.  I have gotten a whole new respect for ship designers.  I believe I may spend some time to learn proper lofting techniques.  Life would be so much easier.  Here is where I ended today...nothing has been glued as it only got up to 43* F today and I feared the glue would not hold well.  I also want to do some more fitting of the bulkheads that I tried to create to smooth out some lines.

 

 

Thanks to those of you following along and offering advice.

 

 

[goatfarmer11]

Another update to my build log.  I got caught up to where I was before...

 

 

And after trying to fit the extra bulkheads I tried to draw I found I am no good at lofting lol.  I was not happy with their fit at all so I will not be using them.  I did practice bending some 3/8" x 3/8" cherry and I think I may try to fit some "frames" between the bulkheads.  I only got 1 minor crack and it should not be a problem. I will have to do it by trial and error but I think in this way I can adjust them to be a perfect fit.  

 

 

I began fitting the gunwales and am very happy with the curvature of them this time.  Everything flows smoothly as it should.  I have one more layer to put on those and I will lay some dummy planks to get the shapes for the frames I am going to add.

 

 

Thanks for following along.

 

 

[KeithAug]

The suck it and see approach is also valid, you will probably find that just "doing it" produces fully acceptable results.