USS Constitution by Der Alte Rentner - Model Shipways - 1/76

[JSGerson]

Just about every surface of my model is covered with something, be it copper, paint, or stain. I have not used polyurethane (Wipe-On Poly)...yet. When I use paint, it's on bare wood so it soaks into the surface. I've used basswood, boxwood, and pear wood so far. The only wood I could have used the poly was the pear wood which was already the correct color I wanted. I didn't use it on the couple of wooden columns and bitts I made with it so far which are barely visible, but I may go back and touch them up with it.

 

And yes I too get cases of "analysis paralysis."

 

Jon

[Der Alte Rentner]

Okay, I think I've solved the problem of tapering the Spar deck planks. Made a little fixture with a groove one quarter inch wide and 3/32" in deep. I put spacers in at different points to hold the planks more or less in place at the right depth at various points along the way.  I set the thickness sander to the thickness of the board with the slot side down. Flipped the fixture over, mounted the planks and ran the fixture through the sander.

 

Proof of concept photos follow.  My problem is, the boxwood material I got came in 15" lengths. What I need to do now is figure out a butt joint spacing plan, and how make it all work with these shorter planks.

 

Anyway, just sharing the concept at this point. More head scratching, stalling, analysis in store for me in the short run.

 

It's warming up in the shipyard, so I'm out of here.. 

 

Happy Independence Day tomorrow.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 3 by Der Alte Rentner

[GGibson]

Nice solution, Peter.  Except now it would appear you are no longer playing with a full deck... <shrug> 🤣

 

Enjoy your Fourth celebration with friends and family, sir! 💥🌭🎉

[woodartist]

looks like it will work, great idea.

[Geoff Matson]

Nice solution to a solve the problem.

 

[Der Alte Rentner]

I may be on the right track, but some modifications to that fixture are necessary. I learned that the quarter inch Groove isn't snug enough to firmly hold four planks in place, resulting in some movement under the drum sander.

 

I'll have to throw it back on my router table and widen that groove just enough so that five planks can ride side by side but very snugly in that space.

 

I may also have to fine-tune those little shims.

 

I did get my planking plan together so that I know where the butt joints should be. If I get ambitious and try to work with 3-in long plank segments, I'll have to put supports under a number of places between the bulkheads to accommodate the butt joints.

 

If not, I know where to scribe the marks on the planks as I work with long ones.

 

I better get home now before I suffer grief from the Mrs for missing too much Independence Day family time.

 

 

The butt joint plan.

 

Problem with plank cutting fixture. (Look closely between the 15 and 16 inch marks on the scale).

 

I'm out of here now. Once again happy Independence Day.

[Gregory]

Quick question for the Constitution guys who have researched this so well.

 

Looking at the plans you posted, are the deck planks that end in a point actual practice, now and in the past?

 

I had always been led to believe the points were to be avoided and were eliminated with nibbling(?).

[Der Alte Rentner]

Oooh,   I'll bet Jon will chime in on that.  That would be great to know.

[JSGerson]

Wow, I didn't know I was the "go to guy" on research!

Quote

Looking at the plans you posted, are the deck planks that end in a point actual practice, now and in the past?

The only pointed planks I see are where the deck planks meet the waterway at the bow. These shown exactly the way look on the real ship. However, the hull planks, do NOT come to a point. Various methods are used to avoid that scenario, like using stealers and/or tapering. This is the way the ship is today. How it looked in the 1800s, I would not know. The earliest US Navy spar deck plan I have is from 1928, and there practically no difference from the kit's plans.

[GGibson]

2 hours ago, JSGerson said:

Wow, I didn't know I was the "go to guy" on research!...

 

The only pointed planks I see are where the deck planks meet the waterway at the bow. These shown exactly the way look on the real ship. However, the hull planks, do NOT come to a point.

 

Ha! Just wait until I get to my own Constitution, Jon!! 🤣

 

Been thinking if there was a way to combine all of your build logs... Peter's, Jon's, Mustafa's... in one giant task-arranged PDF for my own procedure manual when I get to working on mine... <shrug> 

 

To the question at hand, makes sense that they could be laid that way on the deck, but definitely not for the hull planks.

[Gregory]

2 hours ago, JSGerson said:

The only pointed planks I see are where the deck planks meet the waterway at the bow. These shown exactly the way look on the real ship.

That is what I was looking for.   

[Der Alte Rentner]

17 hours ago, JSGerson said:

Wow, I didn't know I was the "go to guy" on research!

Of course you are Jon!  And what a go-to guy you are.  😁

Thanks as always for your input.

 

 

[Der Alte Rentner]

15 hours ago, GGibson said:

Been thinking if there was a way to combine all of your build logs... Peter's, Jon's, Mustafa's... in one giant task-arranged PDF for my own procedure manual when I get to working on mine... <shrug> 

Actually, there is.  I've been putting together word documents with details and photos from a number of build logs I consult for the step I'm currently working on.  It beats the heck out of trying to hunt this information down every time I forget who did what or how they did it.

 

e.g.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 5 by Der Alte Rentner

[JSGerson]

I do something similar. I've copied every Constitution log I've ever followed, some good, some not so good: 38 on going; 25 now completed; 26 dormant, logs never completed. This is how I've been able to locate information quickly from these builders. I can do word searches on their complete logs without having to go page by page on the websites. (BTW, I don't trust websites; they crash, disappear, and change location of their pages.) Should there be something interesting like an impressive jig or construction method I may want to use, I will copy and paste that portion of the log as a separate document and file it in the appropriate subject folder for easy reference. I also collect images of the real ship. A lot of the images you can't find directly with a search engine I gotten by looking for "A" and finding "B". They are all sorted into individual subject folders. I've got about 1,400 images; and the US Navy plans from various sources.  Yeah, so I guess I am the reference guy.

 

Jon

[GGibson]

3 hours ago, Der Alte Rentner said:

Actually, there is.  I've been putting together word documents with details and photos from a number of build logs I consult...

 

 

39 minutes ago, JSGerson said:

I do something similar. I've copied every Constitution log I've ever followed, some good, some not so good...

 

Awesome!  OK, so the rule now is that neither of you can leave town without providing forwarding address... 👍🏆🤣

[Der Alte Rentner]

Success!  

 

I widened the groove in the fixture to snugly hold 6 planks face to face.

 

I used  two sided tape to secure a 1/32" shim at one end of and another 1/64" shim at the center of the top of the fixture. The fixture was in turn flipped upside down and taped to a perfectly parallel backing board, and the whole shebang was run through my drum thickness sander until I removed 1/32" from bottom side of the fixture. I used some pencil marks to get me close, then checked to the dimensions with a verneer caliper. 

 

Next, I removed the fixture from the backing board and ran it, topside up, through the sander again until the fixture was perfectly parallel.  I squeezed 6 planks in beforehand to kill two birds with one stone.

 

The end result is a tapered channel in the fixture that is 1/16" deep at one end and 3/32" deep at the other.  

 

As long as I don't touch the settings on the drum sander, I can crank out tapered planks all day long. Of course, I'll stop when I have enough for the job.

 

I led off with the finished product because I forgot to take photos of the fixture before I added the shims.  The groove at the bottom of the fixture is the newly made tapered one. On top of the fixture are the 6 tapered planks. 

 

Earlier on: check width at both ends to make sure difference is 1/32".  (One hash mark is 1/64".)

 

 

Maybe not the easiest thing to see, but the 1/32" gap is on the right side.

 

Fixture removed from backing board and being made parallel.

 

Proof that the fixture is parallel, and trust me on this, the channel is spot on.

 

 

Unfortunately, as good as these strips are, that I got from modelers sawmill, they do vary in thickness a little bit. So to get a snug fit at the channel, I've got to pick and choose the strips from the batch. Ultimately no big deal.

 

These last two photo shows the fixture potentially ready to deal with the next six strips.  Again, I'll have to sift through the material to find six that will fit snugly.

 

 

Okay, I'm off to tackle some honey do chores.  Back in a few days..

Edited July 25 by Der Alte Rentner
Typos

[woodartist]

2 hours ago, JSGerson said:

I do something similar. I've copied every Constitution log I've ever followed, some good, some not so good: 38 on going; 25 now completed; 26 dormant, logs never completed. This is how I've been able to locate information quickly from these builders. I can do word searches on their complete logs without having to go page by page on the websites. (BTW, I don't trust websites; they crash, disappear, and change location of their pages.) Should there be something interesting like an impressive jig or construction method I may want to use, I will copy and paste that portion of the log as a separate document and file it in the appropriate subject folder for easy reference. I also collect images of the real ship. A lot of the images you can't find directly with a search engine I gotten by looking for "A" and finding "B". They are all sorted into individual subject folders. I've got about 1,400 images; and the US Navy plans from various sources.  Yeah, so I guess I am the reference guy.

 

Jon

Jon, Yours was the first log I copied, Then i coped Rentner and MTBediz. They are all truly gems.

[JSGerson]

Woodartist: I feel flattered. Remember, the Conny is only my second square rigged ship and third wooden model. So take everything I say/do with a grain of salt. I am an experience amateur, not an expert. It is why I explain what I do so that the reader may avoid any mistakes I may have made.

 

Jon

[Der Alte Rentner]

Blast!  Close, but no cigar.

 

24 planks from centerline to waterway, and I'm off by 15/64" (or 5.86 mm). Roughly .25 mm too narrow at the 3/32" end or too wide at the 1/16" end of the planks.

 

Turns out 25 ea. 3/32" wide planks don't quite span the distance at the widest point.

 

I'm going to have to rethink or refine the tapering fixture.  Too bad I already glued in 11 rows of planks between the main hatch and bowsprit. Can I add three or 4 more planks and re-taper the existing 24 to net a perfect fit? Without losing my mind in the bargain?

 

I suppose I could repeat the short-length-plank / tick-mark-across-the-bulkhead approach I employed in planking the hull. Working with 3 7/8" planks would be a pain, but I'm sure I could make it work.  Of course that approach necessitates adding many supports between the bulkheads to accommodate the butt joints on the shorter planks.

 

It may simply not be worth it to try to nail this tapering nonsense.  

 

Going home to pour myself a Manhattan while I pore over my options.

 

(WWMD? What would Mustafa do?)

 

Cheers.

 

 

 

Edited July 8 by Der Alte Rentner
Typos

[woodartist]

On 7/6/2024 at 6:34 AM, JSGerson said:

Woodartist: I feel flattered. Remember, the Conny is only my second square rigged ship and third wooden model. So take everything I say/do with a grain of salt. I am an experience amateur, not an expert. It is why I explain what I do so that the reader may avoid any mistakes I may have made.

 

Jon

You have earned it!!

[mtbediz]

7 hours ago, Der Alte Rentner said:

(WWMD? What would Mustafa do?)

I'm not too particular about measurements. If it were me, I would divide the deck into sectors, just like we did in the hull of the ship, and cover each sector independently of each other. Since you glued 11 rows, re-measure the remaining space as a separate sector and taper the planks according to this measurement,

[Geoff Matson]

These are the challenging parts of model building. Don't overthink the process. With all the planks, sanding, etc. No two models will be the same. You have gotten this far. Just step back and rethink the process. You will come up with right solution to your problems. 

[Der Alte Rentner]

Thank for your encouraging words Geoff, and your ideas Mustafa. I am going to do exactly as you suggest.

 

I remapped the plank plan, with the intent to use the 3 7/8" plank segments as specified by Hunt.  Today, I am adding supports between the bulkheads in anticipation of the tick-mark exercise and to accommodate the plank butt joints. 

 

To any one reading this who is planning to start the MSW kit, I would seriously suggest you take a peek at XKen's build log and consider using a carrier sheet.  If you choose that option, remember that you'll have to shave off of the top of the bulkheads, enough material to compensate for the thickness of the carrier sheet. 

 

Alternatively, I think you should probably just put support panels between the bulkheads right from the start, as I am doing after the fact now. Just fill the entire space and make your life easier going forward. I hope to remember to go back to an earlier part of my build log and throw this reminder in there as well.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 9 by Der Alte Rentner
Add content

[Der Alte Rentner]

I got most of the deck now covered with supports. I may have to add a couple more between bulkheads A and B and possibly also at bulkheads J and G.  Probably better to put them in and not need them, then need them and not have put them in. That can wait until my next session at the shipyard.

 

 

 

Can't wait to get started on the deck planking. 🙄

 

50 rows with most likely seven 3 7/8" segments per row works out to 350 operations - assuming I take no shortcuts.  (Though I may have a good idea for one..)

 

Edited July 10 by Der Alte Rentner
Typo II

[woodartist]

this looks really good, I like Mustafa's suggestion. It as the least amount of risk.

 

[Der Alte Rentner]

15 hours ago, woodartist said:

this looks really good, I like Mustafa's suggestion. It as the least amount of risk.

He is the expert!

 

By the way, I just revisited your own Conny build log.  You left off at just the right spot to contemplate dealing with these very support structures for the spar deck planking you will eventually get to in Chapter 4 and 5, once you resume construction of the Constitution.  

 

Thanks

[woodartist]

I noted that as well. I also have learned so much on the last two builds that I will likely do a total restart on Conny rather than a continuation. It is so crtical to get things correct at the beginning or it is an endless struggle to make it right.

[Der Alte Rentner]

I spent quite a number of hours adding support structure for The Spar deck. I noticed a few small areas where the bulkheads dipped substantially below the Waterway, so I did some adjusting and tweaking - basically laying down subfloor for the planking to come.

 

I started measuring distances between the waterways at the bulkheads and will develop a spreadsheet of 10 zones with 5 or 6 planks per zone, similar to the one I used to plank the hull.

 

 

 

 

And in case anyone is wondering how I got those fillers between bulkheads A and B?

 

 

Edited July 13 by Der Alte Rentner
Added content

[mtdoramike]

Absolutely beautiful work!

[Der Alte Rentner]

And, so it begins...

 

Even though my experiment with making the long planks - exactly the right width, at exactly the right places, was a bit of a failure, it actually helps to have an inventory of tapered material to choose from in doing the shorter plank by plank construction.

 

So far, I have not resorted to fabricating these 4-in or shorter segments on the mill. And once again, I'm working from a spreadsheet.