Admiral Beez Posted January 10 Share #1 Posted January 10 (edited) My kit's now complete except the rigging. Has anyone had success with Heller’s shroud loom, shown below beside my build? I’d welcome any tips. Edited January 11 by Admiral Beez Keith Black and mtaylor 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
druxey Posted January 10 Share #2 Posted January 10 I believe from previous comments on MSW that this device is a snare and a delusion! One needs to rig shrouds the conventional way - on the model itself. mtaylor, allanyed, Baker and 6 others 9 Quote Be sure to sign up for an epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series http://trafalgar.tv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaager Posted January 10 Share #3 Posted January 10 My database reports that: A background piece of paper or card with the shrouds and foot ropes lined out might help keep the progression on track. The angle (slope) of each shroud and the proper tension - remember that the deadeye and their links follow the slope of their shroud - and the horizontal of the foot ropes are neigh on to impossible to get correct anywhere but in situ. mtaylor, Keith Black, druxey and 2 others 5 Quote NRG member 45 years Current: HMS Centurion 1732 - 60-gun 4th rate - Navall Timber framing HMS Beagle 1831 refiit 10-gun brig with a small mizzen - Navall (ish) Timber framing The U.S. Ex. Ex. 1838-1842 Flying Fish 1838 pilot schooner - framed - ready for stern timbers Porpose II 1836 brigantine/brig - framed - ready for hawse and stern timbers Vincennes 1825 Sloop-of-War - timbers assembled, need shaping Peacock 1828 Sloop-of -War - timbers ready for assembly Sea Gull 1838 pilot schooner - timbers ready for assembly Relief 1835 ship - timbers ready for assembly Other Portsmouth 1843 Sloop-of-War - timbers ready for assembly Le Commerce de Marseilles 1788 118 cannons - framed La Renommee 1744 Frigate - framed - ready for hawse and stern timbers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baker Posted January 10 Share #4 Posted January 10 I came across this a long time ago in a Kit from Heller or Revell. What I remember about it from back then. Tested a few times and then it ended in the trashbin, either I'm clumsy or the thing is unusable. mtaylor, Keith Black, druxey and 4 others 7 Quote Regards, Patrick Finished : Soleil Royal Heller 1/100 Wasa Billing Boats Bounty Revell 1/110 plastic (semi scratch) Pelican / Golden Hind 1/45 scratch Current build : Mary Rose 1/50 scratch Gallery : Revell Bounty Pelican/Golden hind 1/45 scratch To do : Prins Willem Corel, Le Tonnant Corel, Yacht d'Oro Corel, Thermopylae Sergal Shore leave, non ship models build logs : ADGZ M35 funkwagen 1/72 Einhets Pkw. Kfz.2 and 4 1/72 Autoblinda AB40 1/72 122mm A-19 & 152mm ML-20 & 12.8cm Pak.44 {K8 1/2} 1/72 10.5cm Howitzer 16 on Mark. VI(e) Centurion Mk.1 conversion M29 Weasel 1/72 SAM6 1/72 T26 Finland T26 TN 1/72 Autoprotetto S37 1/72 Opel Blitz buses 1/72 Boxer and MAN trucks 1/72 Hetzer38(t) Starr 1/72 Si vis pacem, para bellum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrandpaPhil Posted January 10 Share #5 Posted January 10 (edited) If that has actual deadeyes, it would be highly recommended, and a lot less headache, to just run the shrouds and tie the ratlines yourself. Edited January 10 by GrandpaPhil mtaylor 1 Quote Building: 1:64 HMS Revenge (Victory Models plans) 1:64 Cat Esther (17th Century Dutch Merchant Ships) On the building slip: 1:72 French Ironclad Magenta (original shipyard plans) On hold: 1:98 Mantua HMS Victory (kit bash), 1:96 Shipyard HMS Mercury Favorite finished builds: 1:60 Sampang Good Fortune (Amati plans), 1:200 Orel Ironclad Solferino, 1:72 Schooner Hannah (Hahn plans), 1:72 Privateer Prince de Neufchatel (Chapelle plans), Model Shipways Sultana, Heller La Reale, Encore USS Olympia Goal: Become better than I was yesterday "The hardest part is deciding to try." - me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferrus Manus Posted January 10 Share #6 Posted January 10 The shroud loom that Heller gives you is worthless, and the deadeyes are absolutely unusable. Buy aftermarket deadeyes and rig the shrouds and ratlines using techniques on MSW. allanyed, Ian_Grant, mtaylor and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Beez Posted January 11 Author Share #7 Posted January 11 23 hours ago, Baker said: I came across this a long time ago in a Kit from Heller or Revell. What I remember about it from back then. Tested a few times and then it ended in the trashbin, either I'm clumsy or the thing is unusable. I'll likely have a similar experience, but I think I'll give it a go. Many builders of the Heller kits toss the yards and masts and replace them with wood, which is easy enough, but I took the stubborn view and used everything, but reinforced both with carbon fibre rods on either the inside or affixed to the outside. Here's a video of the rig in use. Baker and mtaylor 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allanyed Posted January 12 Share #8 Posted January 12 Thanks for posting the video Beez. Seeing the end results confirms all the bad reviews have been correct, or possibly understated. Allan Admiral Beez and mtaylor 2 Quote PLEASE take 30 SECONDS and sign up for the epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series. Click on http://trafalgar.tv There is no cost other than the 30 seconds of your time. THANK YOU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferrus Manus Posted January 12 Share #9 Posted January 12 On 1/11/2024 at 7:14 AM, Admiral Beez said: I'll likely have a similar experience, but I think I'll give it a go. Just save yourself some time and sanity like I did, and junk the shroud loom. However, you could very well make it work and prove us all wrong. Admiral Beez, mtaylor and allanyed 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Beez Posted January 12 Author Share #10 Posted January 12 2 hours ago, Ferrus Manus said: Just save yourself some time and sanity like I did, and junk the shroud loom. However, you could very well make it work and prove us all wrong. You're probably right, but I'll try to make one shroud and see how it looks. At this small 1/150 scale it might look fine. Ferrus Manus and mtaylor 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snug Harbor Johnny Posted January 12 Share #11 Posted January 12 'Saw the shroud loom video and have a couple observations ... 1.) The demonstrator used the same thin cotton thread for both the shrouds and the ratlines. I suppose a better effect might be had by using thicker line for the shrouds - preferably spun line using a Syren Rope Rocket or the equivalent (or just purchased). 2.) A white card with horizontal lines (on both sides) corresponding to the ratline notches on the loom being used could be affixed as convenient in the middle of the loom. Then, 3.) Instead of wrapping thinner ratlines around the perimeter, one would use the "sewing" technique to run the ratlines (one at a time) horizontally with a long, thin needle through the thicker shrouds - using the lined card underneath as a guide. This technique has been used on a few MSW builds, so one has to look for them. The ratlines don't have to be 'tensioned' but can have a little 'sag' between shrouds as is commonly seen in photos of old sailing ships. 4.) After sewing all the ratlines on a side (leaving plenty of loose line on either side), adjust the shrouds as needed. 5.) A very small amount of CA or thinned PVC (as many prefer) can be applied to the joints (except at the first and last shrouds) with a tooth pick to 'lock' those places. 6.) The ratlines for the first and last shroud are tied with a Cow Hitch. This makes the end of the line run INWARD toward the run of the ratline, instead of outward if a Clove Hitch is used. Then bit of line left over when trimmed will not 'stick out' from the end shrouds, but be concealed by the run of the ratline. The bottom ends of the shrouds can be tied either to the 'fake' deadeye pairs (appearing to be laced already) provided by the kits - which is not that bad for the 1:144 or smaller scale plastic models, as to try and used actual deadeyes at that scale can be very difficult and frustrating for most modelers. (Of course, some have done it regardless.) The narrow upper end gets glued as innocuously as practical. For the larger 1:72 kits, one could strop the lower end of each shroud to a deadeye, fix the position of the narrow top end of the shroud set, then lace the deadeyes at the bottom of the shrouds to the pre-mounted lower deadeyes (tensioning as needed). This could still look OK and be a lot easier than truing to do all the ratlines on the model. Admiral Beez, mtaylor and allanyed 3 Quote Completed builds: Khufu Solar Barge - 1:72 Woody Joe Current project(s): Gorch Fock restoration 1:100, Billing Wasa (bust) - 1:100 Billings, Great Harry (bust) 1:88 ex. Sergal 1:65 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Beez Posted February 9 Author Share #12 Posted February 9 (edited) I received a helpful email reply from Heller France today, directing me to the much improved instructions https://www.heller.fr/downloads/1000808950_MA_Building_Instructions.pdf. I'm going to try to use the tool. Edited February 14 by Admiral Beez mtaylor 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solution Admiral Beez Posted February 29 Author Solution Share #13 Posted February 29 (edited) On 1/12/2024 at 1:34 PM, Ferrus Manus said: Just save yourself some time and sanity like I did, and junk the shroud loom. However, you could very well make it work and prove us all wrong. We've given it a go, and I think I'm satisfied, especially at this small 1/150 scale. I still need to trim the outer edges. On my first attempt I used water-dilluted Gorilla glue, but it turned into a pasty mess. So, I tried again using my standard CA glue and once generously applied with a throwaway paint brush the entire structure became solid, like plastic overnight. I like how it should remain taut without me having to tension the dead-eyes, etc. Edited February 29 by Admiral Beez mtaylor, Baker, GrandpaPhil and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian_Grant Posted March 2 Share #14 Posted March 2 (edited) Well done! But to me the biggest problem with these shroud jigs is the absence of all the served shroud pair centres stacked up the masthead. I suppose one could CA the shroud ends at the base of the masthead (at about the bolster) then "serve" part of the masthead to make it look more like the shrouds are properly constructed. Having said that, in the "Victory" kit the lower mastheads above the bolster are separate parts from the remainder of the masts. If memory serves, the shroud jig for this kit has a spot for the masthead to attach and then you really can wrap and serve the shroud pairs around the masthead, although Heller still shows the wrong way of seizing them together. Edited March 3 by Ian_Grant mtaylor 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Beez Posted April 17 Author Share #15 Posted April 17 (edited) On 3/2/2024 at 12:07 AM, Ian_Grant said: Well done! But to me the biggest problem with these shroud jigs is the absence of all the served shroud pair centres stacked up the masthead. I suppose one could CA the shroud ends at the base of the masthead (at about the bolster) then "serve" part of the masthead to make it look more like the shrouds are properly constructed. Good point. I’ve redone them with more thread left at the top so I can CA them to the mast head. Edited April 17 by Admiral Beez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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