Christiania 1774 by TJM – approx. 1:67-1:64 – Danish Light Frigate based on Vanguard Models HMS Sphinx

[TJM]

Log entry 12 - thinking about colours and the second planking

 

While I am sanding the first planking layer, I am thinking about how to proceed with the second layer. I have to plan ahead as I have some ideas I want to try:

I prefer to keep as much as possible unpainted to show the wood itself. But I also want as much of the colour sheme as possible to show on the final model! With flirt, I elected to not paint below the waterline, and I am very happy with that deisicion. But it does mean that the overall look is not as 'accurate'. My solution to this for this build is going to be use of different woods for different parts of the planking.

 

Below the waterline, I intend to plank with maple - it is quite light in colour (I have only come across american holly that is whiter) and I can get thin sheets of it for laser cutting parts as well. And this is needed, as I need to make the keel and rudder parts below the waterline out of this as well! This will be a small mini project in itself. I am confident that i can do this, though it will take a bit of time, I am more worried about achieving a nice waterline between the pear and the maple. I will also use 12 cm strips to simulate planks as I did with Flirt and as @Ronald-V has done so successfully on his Sphinx. This will make it much easier to handle I hope. I intend to do the following: when a pear plank crosses the waterline, that I will mark on the inner planking, I will cut it off along the line, make a maple piece that is identical to the cutoff and the attatch both. Hopefully I can keep the waterline straight enough like this, but I do fret about this. If I manage, I think the end result could look great. Perhaps I should make a test on a small section of another model first...

 

Apart from this, I also want to emulate the yellow band around the gunports with a yellow wood, either boxwood or alaskan yellow cedar. I will make the swivel gun supports out of the same material (eventually...). 

 

Here are a a comparison between the woods:

The order is: Boxwood, Alaskan Yellow Cedar, Maple and Pear

 

I am leaning towards AYC for the yellow band but perhaps it is too light and not actually yellow enough? I will probably end up using boxwood for the quarterdeck and forecastle planking - I would be happy enough with the laser cut deck, but my forecasle deck shape is probably too changed to use that, and then I would like everything to be consistent. But I could use boxwood for both the deck and the bulwark stripe.

 

Any opinions of what would be best to use here?

 

I am also considering how far down to plank with Boxwood/AYC, and have tried to make a colour mockup of two options:

 

 

I am leaning towards the last one, so that there will only be yellow between upper wale and the decorated part, but I am not sure. Again, any opinions? 

 

BR

TJM

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 17 by TJM

[Ronald-V]

I don't think it's a bad idea to use the same wood colours in other places on the ship. Like boxwood for the forecasle and bulwark stripe. This makes it look like a whole and doesn't make it too cluttered with all the different wood tones. But that's just my humble opinion  

 

And I agree with you on your colour mock-up...the bottom one looks a bit more balanced in terms of colours.

I think it's a very interesting approach to apply the colours with different wood tones, and I'm curious to see how it will turn out in the end.  

[TJM]

4 hours ago, Ronald-V said:

I don't think it's a bad idea to use the same wood colours in other places on the ship. Like boxwood for the forecasle and bulwark stripe. This makes it look like a whole and doesn't make it too cluttered with all the different wood tones. But that's just my humble opinion  

 

And I agree with you on your colour mock-up...the bottom one looks a bit more balanced in terms of colours.

I think it's a very interesting approach to apply the colours with different wood tones, and I'm curious to see how it will turn out in the end.  

Thanks Ronald, much appreciated! It is a good point about not using too many different colours, to have some consistency. My though was that one will simulate a raw wood deck, the other a painted colour, so perhaps they should be different? But perhaps that does not really matter, and perhaps the two are too close in colour to register as different if both were on the model... Hmmm..

 

 

Edited September 18 by TJM

[Thukydides]

I like the ideas you have. I was looking at contemporary depictions of Danish frigates and I found this one from the battle of Copenhagen in 1801 at the RMG (I have copied the relevant potion):

 

https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/rmgc-object-12020

 

You can see the yellow band is actually a bit wider than you have it. It seems to me (a general observation on the many frigate paintings I have looked at) that when the switch from painted decorations to just black and yellow came they tended to make the yellow band wider. You might want to consider bringing the yellow band up to the next molding sand potentially make the molding black. Granted this is a bit later than when your ship launched.

 

The ship in the painting appears to have built up quarterdeck bulwarks hence the large black band on the top.

 

I agree with Ronald, less is more. If you are using the maple for below the waterline then I would also use it for the deck as they are both meant to be "whiteish".

Edited September 18 by Thukydides

[Ronald-V]

1 hour ago, TJM said:

Thanks Ronald, much appreciated! It is a good point about not using too many different colours, to have some consistency. My though was that one will simulate a raw wood deck, the other a painted colour, so perhaps they should be different? But perhaps that does not really matter, and perhaps the two are too close in colour to register as different if both were on the model... Hmmm..

 

 

Maybe it's a bit difficult to try to decide everything in advance. Unless you need to order all the wood in advance, then it's a different story. But seeing wood on the ship will be different then artificial colors on a screen. I do think it only can get you so far...But some people are better in visualizing then others and maybe you are one of them.

[TJM]

3 hours ago, Thukydides said:

I like the ideas you have. I was looking at contemporary depictions of Danish frigates and I found this one from the battle of Copenhagen in 1801 at the RMG (I have copied the relevant potion):

 

https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/rmgc-object-12020

 

You can see the yellow band is actually a bit wider than you have it. It seems to me (a general observation on the many frigate paintings I have looked at) that when the switch from painted decorations to just black and yellow came they tended to make the yellow band wider. You might want to consider bringing the yellow band up to the next molding sand potentially make the molding black. Granted this is a bit later than when your ship launched.

 

The ship in the painting appears to have built up quarterdeck bulwarks hence the large black band on the top.

 

I agree with Ronald, less is more. If you are using the maple for below the waterline then I would also use it for the deck as they are both meant to be "whiteish".

Thanks! I tend to agree, that the one line is a bit to thin, which is also why I was considering extending the yellow to in between the wales as well. I don't think it should be extended upwards - it seems pretty consistent that the upper part of the yellow is more or less aligned with the upper edge of the gunports or a bit below this. There seem to be a clear 'division' in the plans that match those on the Sphinx very well. 

 

When looking at the painitng of Søerideren, it seems the broad yellow line is actually because the two wales were also yellow on that ship: 

I don't know how comon this was, but if following this, the mockup would look like this: 

 

The trouble is just that I don't really care for this look! And I know for a fact that the two thin wales for each gundeck that was common on the Danish ships of all sizes were often painted black or very dark brown. So I think I will stick to that. But the dilemma is then to decide whether to keep the line think - I agree with Ronald that it looks more harmonious - or if I extend it down between the wales, as that is maybe more realistic as Thukydides points out! 

 

Here is a few more images to compare with:

 

 

 

On the first and third image, the battery lines does not look that thick. But all of these may depict slightly later periods than my ship. I don't know how much it changed in the 20-30 years in question. After 1807, white lines became common, so it can't be much more than 30 years after Christiania was built.

 

Regarding using maple for the deck, I had actually not considered that! That may be a good option, thanks for that input! 

 

2 hours ago, Ronald-V said:

Maybe it's a bit difficult to try to decide everything in advance. Unless you need to order all the wood in advance, then it's a different story. But seeing wood on the ship will be different then artificial colors on a screen. I do think it only can get you so far...But some people are better in visualizing then others and maybe you are one of them.

True! It never looks quite right in the digital images. I have all the wood in stock so I can wait a litltle with the final desicion, but I will need to make it soon-ish.

 

Thanks a lot for your inputs, lots to consider and more comments are most welcome if you have any thoughts on my considerations 🙂.

 

BR

TJM 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 18 by TJM

[TJM]

Log entry 13

 

I Have now proceeded with my plans to mix up the wood and hve made replacement parts for the outer keel patterns from 1 mm maple.

 

 

As the inner keel would show at the bow, I filed away around 0.7 mm and added a 3 mm maple strip (lying on the desk in the bottom right if this image)

 

 

I then added all the elements of both maple and pear:

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think the contrast between the woods look very good and if I can manage to get a straight waterline, I think this will be good in the end. If I can manage a helf decent planking job at least.

 

The maple is, ad expected, very hard, but that means it sands very well! I think I will take @Thukydides's suggestion and use it for the upper decks as well.

 

The bottle in the background in some of the above images are being used to form the stern piece - also slightly modified as my stern is a bit wider, so I had to cut out a new piece. I think I may plank the outer layer. I do have 0.5 mm pear sheet, but maybe it will be more consistent to plank it as all other non painted parts will be planked.

 

Thanks for following along!

 

BR

TJM

 

 

Edited September 28 by TJM

[Ronald-V]

That does look really nice! Eventually the maple would age a bit more yellow if I remember correctly, but in my opinion that would only look more beautiful.

 

Edited September 28 by Ronald-V

[TJM]

Log entry 14 - second layer planking start

 

I spent a few days fitting the upper outer bulwark patterns, clamping the pre-soaked parts, allowing to dry and then going over them with a hot iron. It is really not easy to get a reasonable fit on the modified prow shape. I don't know of it would habe bee better to cut them off at the sharp bend, but in the end, I think it became good enough.  I may have to sand it a little to get it all good, but as it gets painted, that should be fine. 

 

I also got the port side slightly lower that the starboard side, but only right at the sharp bend. I will just have to adjust the placement of the decorations slightly up on that side compared to the lase etched markings. I think it will be fine in the end.

 

I then proceeded to add the first 4 planks on the port side. I had more or less decided to go with boxwood for the yellow stripe, but when I made the comparison on the model, I had a clear preference for the alaskan yellow ceder. I'm not quite sure why. There is less difference between the AYC and the maple, but it just felt right, so I went with it.

 

Here's how it looks now:

 

 

 

The 4th plank (pear) is also the location of the first of the two thin wales. It lines up nicely with the future elements at the prow, which is good!

 

I will now do this on the other side as well ( pre-cut upper bulwark is in place) and then it is time to draw a waterline - I dont have a tool for this, so I must figure out how to do this. Anyone have a good way or an easy DIY tool? 

 

And then it is probably time to adress the small elephant that is the cut-away at the prow (in the bulwark around the bowsprit after the catheads). I have been putting off doing this until I had a way to be sure where the catheads went. I have that now and can use a paper cut out of the paneling patterns to get an exact template for the cut. It will only be more difficult to do it as I progress, so better do it now I guess....

 

BR

TJM

 

 

 

Edited September 29 by TJM

[Knocklouder]

Hi, I used my thrid hand  to draw mine, I have seen a jig made out if a toilet paper roll.  Lol. After I leveled the ship and knew were to draw the line,  clamped it in both clamps and away I went. 

MSW / NRG has a work shop video  on this very subject,  I found that really helpful.  

Great looking ship,   

Bob  M.

Edited September 29 by Knocklouder
More info

[TJM]

Thanks @Knocklouder! I think my third hand may not work as it is clamped to the table. But I will see if I can make it work somehow. 

[TJM]

Log entry 15 - catching up on planking and prow modification 

 

It has been a little while since my last update due to many things, but mainly I have been waiting to receive a waterline marker (I caved in and bought the Amati one - it is not as stable as I would have liked, but it can be made to work...) and then I have been putting off making the modification to the top of the prow - the cut-away around the bowsprit (does that have a proper name?). It was a bit scary to start taking a Dremmel to the prow! But I thought that if anythings went wrong, it would likely be salvageable - at least more so than later! So here goes:

 

Here is the starboard side planked to the same degree as the port:

 

 

I'm liking the look! Will be good to get a few more planks on to really show how it will be. Notice the prow cut-away and the waterline marked.

 

And here's a few closeups of the prow:

 

 

 

 

It looks a little rough and it will for a long time. I probably wont cover it up until I add the forecastle deck. I will just hut out suitable planks of pear and decking (likely maple) and cover the frame here. Then I can add sone details like a ladder to the forecastle and a railing on the top that fits with the forecastle bulwark. 

 

Now the planking starts in earnest and there are only 3-4 pear planks until the big challenge that will be to get a nice, even waterline between pear and maple! 

 

BR

TJM

 

[TJM]

Log entry 16 - an few more planks and the garboards

 

A few more planks have been added. The pear below the yellow cedar now shows where the wales will run.

 

 

I now soon have to measure up the hull to plan the tapering of the planks at the bow and have therefore added the garboard planks:

 

 

This went well enough and I should be able to measure up the hull now or after one or two more planks.

 

BR

TJM

 

Edited November 2 by TJM

[TJM]

Log entry 17 - two steps forward, on step back...

 

I have added another couple of plaks on both sides an am reaching the waterline. 

 

So i took the plunge and made a first attempt.

 

 

 

It seemed to work fine, but sighting down along the hull, the waterline between the pear and the maple looked a little high in the middle. So i re-drew the waterline on top and sure enough:

 

 

This looks to be 1 or 2 mm to high 😕. I only looked at this for a few minutes before deciding to rip it off and try again. 

 

I marked the planks to remove and went ahead:

 

 

 

It came off easily enough with no damage to surroundings. I re drew the waterline:

 

It still looks like I will have to add maple to the middle plank, but that was what turned out wrong the first time. Hmm. Time to think and then try again. 

 

I don't want to abandon the idea and paint the hull, as the wooden hull is one of the main appeals to me. I could also run a plank along the waterline and have a simple, non authentic run below the waterline, also using full plank lengths instead of the 12 cm lengths. I think that could look fine and be an aesthetic choice, but it would feel a bit like cheating with the planking! It would be much easier though.

 

I will at least try again with the realistic run of the planks before giving up and trying the other option.

 

BR

TJM

Edited November 5 by TJM

[TJM]

Log entry 18 - changing plans slightly 

 

Having tried a few times without achieving results I was happy with, I decided to change tactics. 

 

The waterline kept becoming too wobbly so I decided to lay a full length plank along the waterline. This was fairly easy to do. I used small nails along the waterline to register the plank and formed it in place with a hot iron, keeping it in place with pins:

 

 

 

 

I did this on both sides and this looks much better in terms of straightness. I have then been adding a few more pear planks and this is how it looks now:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now, this changes things quite a bit in terms of planking strategy below the waterline. Obviously, the planks will not follow a realistic planking pattern as originally intended. I will instead view it as an artistic representation of the white painted hull below the waterline where you would not see how the planks run anyway. But since they will be visible in this case (if I make a good enough job and don't paint over it in the end...), I need the planks to have a aesthetically nice run.

 

I think the best is to divide the hull in planks that run parallel to the waterline. I will just use the waterline marker to do this. That will result at quite thin planks at bow and stern, especially at the stern which will be a departure from a normal planked hull. I think it could work. But I have to decide whether to use full length planks or shorter sections like above the waterline. I feel it will now be better with full length planks for this aesthetic, but the planks have much more severe curves compared to a natural run and I am worried that I wont be able to get tight seams with full length planks! 

 

I will now plank down to the waterline with pear on both sides and the try to make a decision on the lower part then...

 

If someone has any inputs or other ideas I'd be happy to hear them!

 

BR

TJM

 

 

 

[TJM]

Log entry 19 - upper part of second planking done

 

Hello everyone, and thanks for the likes.

 

I have now planked down to the waterline on both sides, which is a kind of halfway milestone for the second planking.

 

Here's both sides:

 

 

So far, I am happy with by wood choices and am exited to see the final form of the hull taking shape. I have roughly sanded the starboard side and think it will turn out very nice after a good deal more sanding. 

 

Here's a few close-ups (showing all the little imperfections and scratches - many will disappear later with sanding):

 

 

 

 

 

From the end on shots, it may appear as if the waterlines on either side are not at the same level - that is just a trick of the angles! They are at exactly the same level, I did not modify the height of the waterline marker at all when I drew them on! In real life, it looks fine.

 

The seam between the pear and maple has turned out nice and sharp, which is a relief! After sanding it will look something like this:

 

 

I will now continue below the waterline and have decided to use 12 cm segments as above. It will be a long frustrating task to use whole length planks with that much curvature on each, so to not run sour of the task, I will use the shorter sections. 

 

BR

TJM

Edited November 17 by TJM

[TJM]

Log entry 20 - planking

 

I started to draw a line parallel to the waterline and immediately realised that that was not going to work. Midships, the planks are vertical, but towards the ends, especially at the stern, the shape would require very broad planks to stay parallel with the waterline all the way.

 

 

 

Instead, I took the time to map out even plank runs for the entire rest of the second planking. I measured at various places and printet out measuring templates to use to mark up the hull:

 

 

 

 

This took a few evenings.

 

I have started with the next planks, the first are the most difficult ast they require more shaping and it should then become easier as I get along.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Including the first whole maple planks, I now have 3 on one side and 2 on the other. It takes close to an hour per plank right now so this is going to take a while. I have 25 total on either side. 😅

 

I can see that it wont be totally perfect, but sanding removes most of the imperfections that are there initially and the maple is very even i colour and texture. When the seams are good, they are virtually invisible, which gives a bit of tolerance for the planking job i need to achieve. I will do my best, but it is good to have a bit of wiggle room.

 

BR

TJM

[TJM]

Log entry 21 - cannon, colours and inorganic chemistry!

 

Hi Everyone,

 

Planking is progressing, albeit quite slowly. I will show that progress after a few more have been added.

 

To break up the quite long and repetitive task of the planking, I have started to look into the cannon - also a long task that I prefer to do a little at a time and not having it as a huge chunk of work when I reach that part! 

 

During my research, I have found that Danish cannon carriages were painted in basically the same way for a very long time, and it is a bit different from the British schemes of that time. 

 

From at least the 1610's to 1830's, the carriages themselves were red, painted with what is still in Denmark called 'svensk rød' - Swedish red. That is iron oxide - I guess that is likely the same colour as the Royal Navy used? 

 

However, all wrought iron parts were painted with lead oxide pigmented paint for corrosion protection. Here are a few reference images:

 

A manuscript illustration - it seems to be earlier than Christianus, as it clearly depicts a bronze cannon, but the yellow wrought iron is clearly evident.

 

An original cannon at the now defunct Orlogsmuesseet. The carriage is probably not original and it has definitely been painted recently, but is shows how the historians believe it would have looked.

 

A commercial replica og a small Danish cannon.

 

An image depicting 'Slaget på Reden' - the First battle of Copenhagen. The toppled cannon in the lower left shows the yellow wrought iron.

 

Apart from these, there are many morder models at the War Museum in Copenhagen showing this paint sheme:

 

 

The frigate Bornholm (1770's):

 

The Gyldenløve (1670's):

 

The brig Ørnen (1830's)

 

These references all show a bright, yellow colour for the wrought iron parts, but in several sources the pigment is referred to as 'mønje', in English 'minium'. 

 

This is where the chemistry comes in: lead oxide appears in many forms with minium being just one of these. 

 

In the image below, you can see the comon forms. Black: lead(IV)oxide, PbO2. Yellow: lead(II)oxide, PbO. Orange: lead(II/IV)oxide, PbO•PbO2

 

The mixed, orange oxide is minium, but it looks way too orange compared to the reference material, even if the word minium is used to describe it.

 

Now, lead(II)oxide (yellow) had two mineral forms called 'litharge' and 'massicot'. Litharge is more orange and massicot is very bright yellow.

 

It is therefore difficult to know exactly what was used, but I will hazard a guess that it may have been a variable mixture of the different minerals minium, litharge and massicot, as chemically pure minerals were rare back then. The colour could therefore range from bright orange to light yellow. 

 

I find this kind of thing fascinating. In the end, I decided to go for a warm, but relatively light yellow, as that seems most consistent with the reference material, though for good reasons, none of those are entirely reliable. This will be used for all wrought iron parts.

 

Here is what a canon will look like:

 

 

 

It would have been period accurate to also paint the wheels red, but that looks too toy-like for my taste, so I will keep them natural.

 

On a related note, I have come to the conclusion, based on all the image and model material I have found, that the inner bulwark would definitely also have been red on the Christiania. I will therefore mask off the exterior (non-cabin) part of the internal bulwark and paint that red as well. Luckily, it is not too late for that, I just need to be careful with the deck!

 

BR

TJM

 

Edited December 10 by TJM
Spelling

[DonSangria]

Interesting research! It is refreshing to see the customs of other, lesser known navies. 

[Beckmann]

Hi TJM,

Very interesting research, indeed. I have to keep that in mind, in case I build cannons for my TRE KRONER model. Will you dress Ltn. Hornblower in a danish uniform? 

Matthias

[TJM]

7 hours ago, Beckmann said:

Will you dress Ltn. Hornblower in a danish uniform? 

 

 

Yes indeed! He will look something like this:

 

For now, I just call him Løjtnant Hornblæser - I think you can guess what that translates to 😉.

[TJM]

Log entry 22 - a bit more planking and painting the inner bulwarks

 

I have added a few more planks and I think it is starting to show how it will look when completer. 10 planks down, 40 to go...

 

And as I had decided to paint the bulwarks red, I masked off everything and did so - no mishaps or paint seeping, so that's nice.

 

Here is how it looks now, with Kaptajn Hornblæser (I guess he got promoted.. ) inspecting the paintwork and how it goes together with the cannon paint sheme:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As you may be able to tell, I am rough sanding as I go. I find it easier to control with a few planks at a time and it makes for less sanding at the end and (I hope) less likelihood of sanding through the second planking, as I only take off just what is needed initially.

 

BR

TJM

 

Edited Monday at 07:50 PM by TJM

[CiscoH]

great planking job.  dividing the hull into sections with paper tic strips is how i’ve done it as well