It's not going well, Lady Nelson

[LadyG]

I pretty much abandoned my first build which was the Endeavour longboat, it's OK, but have still to finish the ( single) planking on one side, lol

Moved on the the Lady Nelson, did not find the build on here until I had attached the keels, which  is a mistake as I should have made a rabbet to have a chance of planking even the first layer.

The walnut planks are pretty good compared to the walnut ply which is brittle. 

I wonder if using ca glue on the bulkheads and wood glue elsewhere to get the walnut plank seams tight would work better, but it is the bow which is the nightmare, the first layer of white planks keep springing back.

I have used balsa to assist with fixing and shaping (balsa saturated glue). 

I've tried the planking tool, I've tried hot water in a jug, I'm no further forward, should I cut off these under planks further back to a bulkhead and making that bulkead thicker to attach the new short planking.

I don't have a pin pusher,  I have a knife a side cutter, a fine saw, and a few different clamps, thats about it. 

I can get a second kit incomplete kit from Ebay, and i think this may be the way to go ..... I can use the extra wood for scratch builds.

 

 

[JGoff]

Do you have some photos so we can see the issue?

 

For planking, I use CA glue. I bevel the back lower edge of the plank with sand paper a little to try and get a tight fit between planks. I also edge bend my planks, which you can see a tutorial here. You might also look into the NRG Half Hull Project. This provides a good foundation for learning how to plank. As for tools, sounds like you have all you need. 
 

If your first layer of planking with the lime wood is springing, you may have not bent your planks sufficiently or you may have not faired enough. I would pull the plank and do it again, set it with CA glue. I’m on my first build too so maybe some of the more experienced may have better insight. 
 

As for a rabbet, I would not sweat it. I did not really do one on mine. I’m sure it would have been better/easier if I had, particularly with fitting at the bow. 
 

If you haven’t started a build log, start one. I was reticent in doing one but it is good to keep track of your progress, learn from your mistakes, receive feedback from the community, and maybe it will even be a source for future Lady Nelson builders. I think it is fair to say that everyone here looks forward to your success and enjoyment of the hobby. 

[LadyG]

47 minutes ago, JGoff said:

Do you have some photos so we can see the issue?

 

For planking, I use CA glue. I bevel the back lower edge of the plank with sand paper a little to try and get a tight fit between planks. I also edge bend my planks, which you can see a tutorial here. You might also look into the NRG Half Hull Project. This provides a good foundation for learning how to plank. As for tools, sounds like you have all you need. 
 

If your first layer of planking with the lime wood is springing, you may have not bent your planks sufficiently or you may have not faired enough. I would pull the plank and do it again, set it with CA glue. I’m on my first build too so maybe some of the more experienced may have better insight. 
 

As for a rabbet, I would not sweat it. I did not really do one on mine. I’m sure it would have been better/easier if I had, particularly with fitting at the bow. 
 

If you haven’t started a build log, start one. I was reticent in doing one but it is good to keep track of your progress, learn from your mistakes, receive feedback from the community, and maybe it will even be a source for future Lady Nelson builders. I think it is fair to say that everyone here looks forward to your success and enjoyment of the hobby. 

There is a good Lady Nelson build log, my effort is so bad I did not want to post it. 

I mightt buy the half price used kit locally (parts missing otherwise as in box,  and start again, i need some paint and some nice walnut blocks which I can get from that same shop.

When you say I don't need to rabbet, this means having both layers of planks at the bow, ie. Ie prow with nothing to hold them on.

 

 

 

Edited July 20 by LadyG

[JacquesCousteau]

I'd also recommend posting a build log as the best way to get suggestions. This forum is a very supportive environment and you will receive help from people who would like to see you succeed. Moreover, a build log can show the full process, which can be helpful in understanding what went wrong. At the moment, I'm not totally sure why the wood is coming away from the hull like that, although I have a few ideas. What type of glue are you currently using? You may not be using enough, or are using too much, and may not be properly clamping it to cure. Also, when you soaked the planks to bend them into shape, did you allow them to fully dry, or did you glue them while they were still wet? If the latter, the plank may have shrunk once the water dried.

 

There are a few things that stand out to me that could be contributing. First, you mentioned having only a few clamps. Having more clamps of different types would probably be helpful and make it easier to hold the wood in shape so that it more easily takes the bend. Second, maybe it's just the angle, but it looks like the planks may not have been spiled--that is, shaped, especially to reduce their width toward the bow. Spiling is frequently necessary to make sure the planks sit properly around the complex curves of the hull. If you click on the link in my signature to my NRG Half-Hull build log (or look at many other build logs for a variety of vessels) you can see how the planks become thinner near the bow, and are also cut into curved shapes to allow them to sit flat on the bulkheads around the curve. (Some prefer to use heat to bend planks sideways rather than cutting them into a curved shape.) Based on the amount of char on the bulkheads toward the bow, you also might need to fair more there, although you'd need to check this by using a thin batten to see if it can take a smooth curve while touching all bulkheads.

 

These are just a few ideas, hopefully they are helpful. I do highly recommend making a build log. 

[Wawona59]

Please hang in there.  We are all overly critical of our work.  I'm also in that camp as well.  Even though I was not happy with the fore bulkheads of my Flying Fish, I still received numerous positive and encouraging comments from several MSW members.  I have since taken back all of the bulkheads that I was not happy with and will restart my Flying Fish build log again.

 

If you are experiencing spring back of your planks the chances are that you either did not soak them long enough or did not keep them in the plank bending form long enough.

 

In my opinion, instead of buying another Lady Nelson kit, please consider purchasing the Model Shipways Shipwright Series kits instead.  The shipwright series is offered as a combo of three kits.  The combo consists of a basic Dory, followed by Pram followed by lobster ship jack.  Each model in the series is progressively more challenging.  You can even get the combo with a basic set of tools. I have the combo kit.  The materials are high quality, the instructions are excellent with a few steps that will make you think.

 

Model Shipways Shipwright Series (modelexpo-online.com)

 

I strongly recommend that you consider building the Shipwright Series first.  Once you've successfully completed the Shipwright Series you'll be able to finish building your Lady Nelson with confidence.

 

I wish you the best in your ship modeling journey.

 

 

[Stevinne]

Instead of a rabbet, you can bevel the inside of the underside edge of the plank. I have done that in the past and it gave a nice, tight fit. I do the same thing with the front edge of the plank, again so it lays nicely flat against the keel.

Are you starting your planking at the front of the ship, working backward? That allows you to get a good, strong attachment first, and once you achieve that then you can work backward.

My preferred method is to bend the plank to shape as much as possible and then use CA glue on the front of the plank, and the first pair of bulkheads while I paint and the bow filler blocks with wood glue. I attach it, hold it in place until the CA grabs and dries and then apply pins to hold it into place while the wood glue dries up. Once enough time has passed I then move on to attaching the rest of the plank in a similar fashion, doing a couple of bulkheads and allowing for drying time. Once all is dry, I then break out the wood glue again and use the opening in the hull from the missing planks to paint some wood glue on the bulkheads to reinforce the CA. I let that dry.

I use the same technique on subsequent planks, with the only difference being that I paint the top of the plank with wood glue and push it up tight against the upper plank to both ensure a snug fit and allow the glue to solidify the hull.

Frank Mastini's "Ship Modeling Simplified" offers great advice on planking (and just about everything else for someone starting out in the hobby).

     

[LadyG]

Ty, in theory i probably have enough clamps for the job, and have got the stern planked OK, sort of, lots of sanding.

I seem to use a lot of glue on the second planking, probably should roughen the first planking, ( ive sanded it to make it smooth) to help it adhere, it looks OK when I put it on, but after a bit it opens up, this could be that the wood is wet then shrinks, sigh.

Maybe I should bevel the plank before soaking. Pinning is not easy, the bulkheads are very soft, not real wood IMHO.

I've tried front first then back, now the rear planks are OK but the bow is as you see, I'm out of ca glue, and I think my pins are too small, will give it a rest for a few days.

Understandably I'm more interested in the British ships, though I'd like to try a whaler, but I think I need to finish this one first.

The Endeavour Longboat Amati, my first build, seemed easier, though planking has not bee9n completed, as I did not have not enough clamps  might be able to finish it, lots of planks left over, 

I'm in the UK, so not all the same kits are available.

 

Edited July 20 by LadyG

[tmj]

Take a deep breath and relax. All is actually good... despite what you currently think! You 'can' fix this! 

#1... As Stevinne mentioned, you do 'not' need a rabbet. Just bevel your plank to an angle that will hug the keel.

#2... Water does not bend wood. 'Heat' bends wood. Remember this! Steam is a mixture of water and steam, but it is 'still' the heat that is bending the steamed wood, not the water. The water, in steam, is simply a very good carrier of that heat! No need to soak your planks. Bend them with 'heat' prior to putting them on your hull. Use glass jars, metal cans, whatever as forms to bend upon. Get the bends close and then let your clamps and glue do the rest.

#3... Bevel the edges of all planks so there will be no unsightly gaps after being bent and glued in place, unless you want to simulate caulking. Even then, you'll still need to bevel your planks to reduce the size of your caulking seam.

 

You might need to purchase some new planking material to perform the repair, but you should have no trouble finding that material being readily available through wood sources listed on this forum, or maybe in hobby shops where you live.

 

Below is a Cutty Sark of mine, still under construction. The hull planks are between 1.5mm and 2mm thick. You will notice two things. #1, there are no gaps between the planks. That's because I beveled them before heat bending them around jars, cans, whatever objects around me that looked to have a usable shape. #2, take a look at the keel. There is no rabbet cut into that keel. Once again, I simply beveled the plank, with sandpaper to make it hug the keel. For 'that' plank, I did the beveling 'after' the plank was bent, due to the complex geometry involved. Sand, fit, sand some more, check fit, sand, fit, sand, fit... yadda, yadda, yadda. I used CA glue to attach these planks to the bulkheads. 

 

You can do this, just relax, think it through and remember to bend those planks, with heat, 'before' trying to attach them to the hull's bulkheads! "Don't give up the ship!"   

 

 

 

 

[SkiBee]

40 years ago I started with a solid hull model and failed to get past step one.  I've built a lot of plastic models but never went back to try a wood model, shaping a hull and the rigging intimidated me.  A couple of years ago I decided to try my hand at wood models and ordered Model Shipways Long Boat, it looked simple enough.  I was making progress but making a lot of mistakes.  Then I saw an advertisement for Model Shipways Shipwright 3 ship beginners set and they took me step by step and I learned a lot of skills and knowledge (including planking) for a fair price.  I learned so much I tried my hand at a solid hull again and it's been successful so far.

   I highly recommend the Model Shipways Shipwright 3 Kit Series. By the time you finish the 3rd boat, the Muscongus Bay Lobster Smack, you will have the skills to take on anything.  They might be small and appear to be simple, but that's what you want in the beginning and to learn the basic skills, then try the other models.  Plus, there are a lot of build logs on the 3 at this web site.

   Whatever you decide to start with, take your time and always feel free to take a break from the build.

[Thukydides]

Lots of good advice in this thread. Model ships are a huge learning curve, but just about any mistake can be fixed. As has been suggested take a deep breath and go back and read a bunch of build logs and watch some planking tutorials. As @tmj said you may need to buy a few more strips, but it definitely can be fixed. Take your time. This is not a race. I am almost three years into my first model ship build.

 

Good luck :).

[Erik A]

i also started with the endeavour longboat and yes its still in progress. mainly as i started to accumulate others and being a bit flighty when it comes to projects i have started a few which are all ongoing. i like to infill my POB hulls especially at the bow and the stern. planking im taking real slow and usually work on one ship for a couple of stages then move to another. currently doing the infill on the Dannebrog i have so taking a while to get that sorted. pretty much have the blocks in place and now to trim them down and sand them back. i find the infill seems to help me with the planking at the ends of the ship which are typically the hard parts and gives more area to fix to rather than a strip.

[LadyG]

OK, so I think I will try to buy some more wood, and ca glue. 

My later planking is better than the earlier, but it's going to be a long term build, getting materials is not easy.

The instructions come with both original and updated instructions, that does not help.

I've sort of adapted things, eeks!!

I always try to end a session on a success, no matter how small.

 

 

[GrandpaPhil]

1/16 inch basswood makes excellent planking material.  
 

If you are in the United States, it can be found pretty cheaply in the woodcraft sections of Hobby Lobby or Michael’s, along with most hobby shops.

 

I have seen it at hardware stores such as Menard’s and Lowes too.

Edited August 3 by GrandpaPhil

[tmj]

LadyG,

I always approach new things with a simple mind set. "If things go horribly wrong... that means that I am not doing things properly!" I then do research, practice, and once I think I've finally figured it out I give things another go. I know that you want to make good progress, in good time on this build. We all do with all of our individual projects, however. Sometimes we all encounter certain difficulties and also experience unsavory set backs that must first be figured out and then eventually worked through. You are not alone, It happens to all of us, trust me! Take the slow road, learn the ropes and proudly cross the finish line holding a 'wonderful' model ship! "Don't be hasty like the ol' 'Hare'!"   

 

    

[hornet]

Might I suggest you invest in some planking screws. They make a fiddly job much easier. 
 

https://www.modelerscentral.com/modeling-tools/hand-tools/holding/planking-screws-p12/

[LadyG]

On 8/4/2024 at 8:59 AM, hornet said:

Might I suggest you invest in some planking screws. They make a fiddly job much easier. 
 

https://www.modelerscentral.com/modeling-tools/hand-tools/holding/planking-screws-p12/

Yes, I think I'll get some for next project, I'm using small map pins at the moment, two planks per day, it's not terrible.

I would like some walnut wood filler for my walnut strip. Would this help to make it seamless.

I've kept some coloured sawdust too.

Might get shellac.

I have clear two pack epoxy, might try that

PS it's slowly improving.

I m in the UK and  most model shops near me are not focused on wooden  boats. I'm trying to use Amazon Locker for paints.

Edited August 7 by LadyG