Maine three-masted schooner by Bedford - 1:54 - RADIO

[Bedford]

I have attached the first sail and tried raising and lowering it.

 

You can see the lazy jack, the line that hauls the gaf down and gathers the sail in the process. It passes through loops sewn into the sail at 20mm intervals.

 

 

 

 

 

 

It all looks good but the gaf won't travel evenly on the mast because there is too much friction so it goes up too steeply and binds and does the same coming down.

 

The other problem to arise is that the boom is nowhere near heavy enough to hold the sail down when it has wind in it so I will probably have to find a way to stay the boom to the mast to maintain the correct angle.

 

These pics are with the fan on.................wind in your sails! 

 

 

[fnkershner]

I know it is not historically accurate. But I find that for Sail powered R/C vessels the vang is very important. and if you are racing you want it to be adjustable.

[captainbob]

I agree you need a vang to hold the boom down.  And a clapper at the front of the gaff might reduce the friction.

 

Bob

[Bedford]

I was always concerned that these issues would arise but I decided to wait until this point to see how much of an issue they are and what may be needed to fix them.

 

If all else fails maybe the course sails will be hand set but we will see.

 

Now to google "clapper"

[JerryTodd]

It's a device for turning lights on or off by clapping your hands. 

ok, in this context it's a block on a pivot pin inside the gaff jaws that slides on the mast so the gaff's easier to raise/lower.

[fnkershner]

LOL Jerry!

[Bedford]

Ahh so that's a clapper. I was thinking of lining the rubbing edge of the yolk with a brass wire to reduce friction but my son and I put some thought into it and came to the conclusion that the best way to reduce friction is to reduce the number of items causing friction so I removed half of the hoops so now there is one every 40mm instead of every 20mm and this has helped the sail itself go up and down the mast.

 

 

Then instead of running the lazy jack through loops every 20mm on the sail I reduced it to just three loops, this dramatically reduced friction there and while the sail is not as controlled as it is hauled down it is still managable. You will see that I also moved the point of attachment on the gaff forward to a point that equalises the down pull so it happens smoothly without the outboard end of the gaff heading down first which caused the yolk to jam on the mast.

 

 

The other step was to add a lanyard from the master block on the gaff halyard to the yolk on the gaff, this ensures the gaff pulls up at the correct angle, again, preventing it from jamming on the mast.

 

 

The result is a sail that can be raised ad lowered very easily.

[captainbob]

Making RC sail boats work rigth usualy requires thinking outside the box.  Sounds like you have a winner.

 

Bob

[Jim Lad]

All very interesting practical problems of model sailing ships that actually sail.  How about a downhaul at the boom jaws as well?  Could that be worked into your rigging, or does that just make it super complex in practice?

 

John

[Bedford]

John I have thought of all of that but will always try the easiest solution first and by placing the lanyard between the master block above the gaff and the yolk and moving the down haul forward of centre I have found the centre of force required to make the gaff come down evenly. I still have a few drag issues with some of the hoops and may go for 1mm brass wire instead of 0.5mm as this would present a larger diameter rubbing point and being heavier should help too but I have even considered having a haul down line for the hoops. I think if it came to that I would give up on the idea though.

 

This is the challenge I set myself so I must cop the greif and work through it.

[qwerty2008]

I was having a problem with the mast hoops binding on my Byzantium and upon advice from other members of this forum I made them slightly larger so they would fit looser around the mast and that fixed the binding problem.

 

 

Lextin.

[JerryTodd]

Hoops on schooners are, more often than not, wood.  Typically the inside diameter is 1/4 of the mast diameter at the base larger that the mast diameter at the base.  These are made of 1/16" thick bass, shaved at the ends to taper to nothing, soaked in hot water and bent around a dowel.  When dry they are glued up and put back on the dowel.  When set they're stained, sanded, etc, and put on the mast before tabling, hounds, cross-trees, etc are added.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bedford]

Thanks qwerty, I have had that in the back of my mind but I think you just brought it to the fore. I can see myself making bigger hoops.

 

The sails are going up and down but not always 100% evenly so improvement is needed but I am happy with the progress.

 

 

 

[captainbob]

Another option on the hoops is two lines from the gaff jaws tied to each hoop to lift the front of the hoop and keep them level when raised.  I don’t remember the reference but I added it to the Spray.    SEE HERE

 

Bob

[Bedford]

4 down, 5 to go.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[fnkershner]

Jerry - Now those are very nice hoops!

[michael mott]

Wow they are coming together very nicely. Raising and lowering sails with RC is more that I would want to tackle.

 

Michael

[Shazmira]

Nice fix on the friction issue! Makes a big difference to actually make things work, like they need to for an rc model, much different than just a static one.

[Bedford]

6 down 3 to go !

 

With a static model you have to leave all your ropes long enough to tie off but with working running rigging I have cord everywhere, they all have to be long enough to run the travel of the sail plus the height of the mast plus enough to run the length of the ship.

 

Good thing I know what each of them are for.

 

 

 

 

[captainbob]

It won’t be long now.

 

Bob

[Blue Pilot]

You know an RC model is going to be cool when before she is built the modeler starts off saying I hope it will fit in the car! This should be fun to watch sail and thanks for an enjoyable log to read through.

Edited May 23, 2014 by Blue Pilot

[popeye the sailor]

sails look super!

[Bedford]

Thanks guys and welcome aboard Bluey! Sounds like you have just read the log from stem to stern, glad you enjoyed it. Stay with us as she nears completion. (He said knowing there is still a VERY long way to go yet)

[Bedford]

Hey John, just for you.

 

I stumbled across a pic of the Craig when she was on the pontoon in Darling Harbour which is when I first saw her.

 

 

Brunswick green, I knew I wasn't going senile yet.

[Jim Lad]

Crikey!  That's an old photo, mate.  The Craig hasn't been on that side of the bridge for a lot of years.

 

John

[Bedford]

It was 1988 mate!

 

I went to Sydney this weekend and took the schooner to show dad.

 

With top masts and bow sprit jib boom retracted she fits quite happily in the back seat of the falcon - the red road car shown in prior posts for those international members.

[Bedford]

Just a few pics with the woodwork in travel mode.

 

 

 

 

[Bedford]

More and more changing and modifying the way the sails/lazy jacks work.

 

Originally I laid a cord across the sail in the line of the lazy jacks and stitched over that with a zig zag stitch. This allowed me to draw the cord through to create loop points along that line, these were stitched into place by hand.

 

The problem is that pulling the lazy jack through a cord loop encountered too much friction and it didn't move freely.

 

Next I dramatically reduced the number of loops I ran the lazy jack through which freed up the sail movement but when the sail was pulled down the reduced number of loops meant the sail was all over the place but at least I now knew I was on the right track.

 

Next I added some brass rings the the course sail lazy jack line, this added the control of the downed sail without increasing friction much.

 

For the tops'ls I ran the lazy jack line from the apex of the outside corner to the first hoop on the topmast, the reasoning behind this was to stop the sail deforming under tension but it meant the lazy jack ran to a point above it's block on the mast which meant the sail didn't pull in very well, it also created a very rigid line of pull when setting the sail which meant that the sail would not billow properly as there was an ungiving line across its centre.

 

 

I decided to remove that line of thread altogether and now the tops'ls billow much more nicely and I have stitched brass rings directly to the sail in line with the lazy jack pull and the sails pull in and gather nicely with very little resistance.

 

 

The lazy jack is now inline with it's block and I am much happier with all of it.

 

 

Next, stays'ls !

 

[Bedford]

Stays'ls are finally on, now comes the long and probably tedious job of setting up the controls.

 

[JerryTodd]

I've found that whenever possible, run lines through something; a hole in the end of an arm, center of a winch drum, etc; to a cleat where you can make adjustments much easier.  Trying to deal with small fittings in tight places inside of hatches will drive you to the evening news - as one of tonight's stories.

Edited June 18, 2014 by JerryTodd