Venetian Carrack or Cocha by woodrat - FINISHED - 1/64

[woodrat]

Thanks, Carl. Let me know if I am going too far astray.

Druxey, I am mainly concerned in producing realistic seam lines on the sail. Some illustrations show just longitudinal seams but many show a cross-hatched appearance. I like your idea of using dilute acrylic paint to stiffen the silk which may also be able to reproduce this appearance. I dont really want to print pictures on the sails  although this would be good for flags.

 

Dick

Edited June 4, 2016 by woodrat

[cog]

Deadeye's are more like a block and sheave, the standing rigging is missing ratlines too ... those are the things which struck me immediately ... I can't figure out how the standing rigging is attached to the masts ... there will probably be some more, so I'll search on ...

Edited June 4, 2016 by cog

[druxey]

The second illiustration is interesting. I've seen the ones like the first with the sail billowing either side of what I assumed was a stay in the crease. However, it looks like there is an actual restraining band or heavy line that goes aft and around the foot of the mast in the etching. Is that what you interpret that as, Dick?

[woodrat]

Spot on, Druxey. Many illustrations show this band from the midpoint of the foot of the sail around the mainmast. Some pictures show similar bands also from the bonnet(s). These are the reason that the centre of the billowing sail has a "cleavage". It may be that this was necessary a. to prevent the sail rubbing on the mainstay, b. splitting in the middle or c. I don't have a clew.

cheers

Dick

Edited June 5, 2016 by woodrat

[druxey]

I assumed the reasons a and b, Dick. Thanks for the response.

[cog]

Dick,

 

In that last image it seems to be attached to the forecastle ... looking at your post before that, I see discrepancies between images

a. in your first post the main stay is only visible in the first image, in the second it doesn't show, as in you last post, it's not clearly visible, however, it seems to be behind the sail, not in front as one might expect ... do these ships always have main stays is the next question popping up ...

b. I would expect an additional stiching would make the sail weaker, not stronger. Most tears in tissue start on the stiches(!)

[woodrat]

Thanks, Carl. I believe they all had mainstays and in front of the sail. Some artists occasionally omit them even Carpaccio. I cannot conceive how the mainstay could be behind the sail. This must be an error. The best illustrations show a triple or quadruple mainstay which  seems to be served or puddened to prevent abrasion on the mainsail.

Dick

[cog]

Run against this:

https://www.academia.edu/25458464/Caravels_Facts_and_Myths?auto=view&campaign=weekly_digest

 

Cheers

[woodrat]

Thanks Carl. Nice web-site. Warning! Naming mediaeval ship types from different countries can do your head in.

Dick

[druxey]

I just came across this image of the battle of Algiers (I hope the link will work):

 

https://shar.es/1JpKu0La bataille d'Alger | Sotheby's - Huile sur toile - PF1609Lot926GQen

[woodrat]

Thanks, Druxey. A very modern looking painting for the era. Reminds me of Hieronymus Bosch to a degree. The ships are rather fanciful.

Cheers

Dick

Edited June 8, 2016 by woodrat

[Louie da fly]

This picture of the Santa Caterina do Monto Sinai, though a little late, shows two sheets holding the centre of the mainsail back, plus two others starboard of it (presumably mirrored on the port side), and the sail pressed hardup against the forestay.

 

 

Steven 

Edited June 8, 2016 by Louie da fly

[cog]

That one gives a clear view, Steven. But that's a Spanish ship, and it seems that there can be huge differences between the ships from different countries, for that matter even between different regions within a country!

[Louie da fly]

Actually it's Portuguese, but you're quite right. As Woodrat has demonstrated, there could be vast differences between the ships of various regions, and the Atlantic ships (including Spanish, Portuguese and Basque) were markedly different in shape and construction from the Mediterranean ones such as the Venetian one of this build log.

 

As far as sail plans and rigging go, the differences seem to be equally marked.

 

By the way, I've realised that the Santa Caterina's mainsail is actually made up of a course that only extends down from the yard a relatively small distance, plus two bonnets, each as wide as the course itself. A sensible thing in the days before reef-points. You could get rid of a lot of canvas relatively easily when it came on to blow. And with a mainsail that big, the forces involved could be quite dramatic in a strong wind.

 

Steven 

[woodrat]

Blocks on mediaeval ships were somewhat different to those we are used to on later vessels. For example this is my concept of a double block with the pulleys set in-line instead of side-by-side

 

 

I have installed the backstays first while holding the mast with temporary forestays much as seen in the Trombetta illustration. This sketch I believe was made while the mast was being set up.

 

this shows the use of hearts for the backstays

 

 

 

 

 

Cheers

Dick

Edited July 17, 2016 by woodrat

[Louie da fly]

Brilliant as usual, Dick. Looking forward to the next chapter in the saga.

 

Steven

[woodrat]

Most kind, Steven. The next step is the mainstay which appears to have a strange looking pulley at the mainmast and presumably at the foot of the foremast with a collar going around the knee of the stem. This is why I left some of the planking off the forecastle deck. The shrouds have been made and go on after the mainstay.

 

Dick

Edited November 1, 2016 by woodrat

[mtaylor]

That is one fine looking model, Dick.  Your research and efforts are really paying off.

[druxey]

This build is quite fascinating, with all the research and interpretation that you have put into it, Dick. You should consider writing it up for an article or series of articles for the Nautical Research Journal.

Edited July 20, 2016 by druxey

[woodrat]

Thanks Mark and Druxey. This is something I have considered. I have sent an email to Paul Fontenoy, the editor NRJ, to enquire whether this is suitable. Certainly, I claim no credentials as a nautical archaeologist or historian but the topic is of interest to many ship modellers because of the popularity of vessels such as the Santa Maria. Indeed, to do the subject full justice would be equivalent to a Ph.D thesis and I certainly don't have time for that! Dick

[cog]

Dick,

 

To me it's not about writing the thesis, it's about sharing your experiences, for most modellers never encounter a build like yours, or they just don't dare to venture in the unknown ...

[woodrat]

I agree, Carl. Paul Fontenoy, the NRJ editor was enthusiastic about writing up an unusual subject like this and I will submit an article. I think it should be best published in 3 parts as a series:

1. The hull reconstruction
2. The superstructure
3. Masting and rigging

But of course, this is the prerogative of the editor

Cheers

Dick

[cog]

Good to hear that, Dick.

 

I do look forward to read your article. If your writing resembles the way you write your post, we are in for an enjoyable, and very informative series.

 

Cheers

[druxey]

Excellent news, Dick! I might suggest adding a section on the research that you've done? Most folk shy away from it and don't know how to go about it. That would be a valuable add-on.

[woodrat]

 I might suggest adding a section on the research that you've done?

Will do, Druxey. That is the crux of the whole project i.e. to educate myself and others on the way shipwrights may have constructed a stout vessel without the use of plans and how the mariners may have rigged and sailed them. I would be standing on the shoulders of many giants such as historians of Venice, nautical archaeologists and other model builders. Beside this, the actual making of the model is light relief. My meagre nautical library has greatly inflated since starting this project as books are my main research source, being a hemisphere away from the primary sources in Europe. I am also hampered by my lack of italian language. By the same token, I don't wish to clog the article too much abtruse material so as to maintain "a conversational tone" as the editor puts it.

Dick

[druxey]

I'm sure that you'll find a balance, Dick.

[mtaylor]

I'm looking forward to your article, Dick.  Looking over your build log says you'll do a great job on it.

[woodrat]

Thanks for all the encouragement, chaps. I have written a draft for the introduction.

Dick

[cog]

Looks like you are in overdrive!!! Find someone to read your drafts, I would volunteer, but unfortunately I'm not qualified for the task: My knowledge is insufficient as is my English

 

Cheers

[woodrat]

OK Carl. I have someone in mind.

Dick