HMS Fly by Martin W - Amati/Victory Models - 1/64

[Martin W]

Well, maybe.  You'd have to bend the strips in order to wrap them around the bow.  What would be easier, I think, is just to set the forecastle & the quarterdeck on to check for how they sit.  If they are in full contact with each the bulkheads, and if the bulkheads are square to the keel, then everything should be copacetic.  The strips are such a ROYAL pain that there's no use agonizing until necessary.

[Martin W]

Spy -- that's more than a pennyworth, it's plenty of valuable information.  i definitely agree about the soaking and resoaking -- in fact, my concern with my jigsaw joint began by my thinking that I'd soaked the strips too much and inadvertantly opened one side of the joint.  But I now see that multiple soakings don't hurt, they help.  And those vertical curves are truly sweet.

 

Still, it's baffling to me why the joint would not meet on the bulkhead -- why design a weak joint into the build, if that was Chris Watton's plan.

 

And like you, I'm going to have to recut the bowsprit hole, both to open it up and to raise it -- that's the fault of getting bulkhead #1 in too high.  I've also cut down the cross piece of 1 & 12 so that the forecastle & quarter deck will sit properly.

 

Thanks for detailed info!

 

Cheers,

 

Martin

[JPett]

Ahoy Martin  

 

Thx for the link, Beautiful Kit. It seems i may have found you in a small squall. I am sure you will weather this with your skill.  

 

If you recall i had some issues with the bulkheads on my Ratt. My suggestion is that you build a jig and mount the hull. One like I did for my Vic build.  If you have top and side views in the plans you will be able to make,take, and transfer accurate measurements and confirm that you are on the right heading. I found this simple "tool" very helpful and have just recently used it to correct the gunports on my Ratt.  A square and one of those pencil holder things is also very useful. If you need pics let me know. I will post some links. 

 

Well I am here now and have a seat, a drink, and my snacks. I am very much looking forward to following you on your journey

. 

[mog]

Martin,

You just can’t get away from the Ratt crowd, the new build looks great,  will be following along

MOG

[Martin W]

Hi JPett & Mog -- thanks for checking in, guys, it's always good to know the Ratt Pack is still around and active.

 

JPett, thanks for the advice.  I do have a cradle for the hull that I made from scrap whille working on the Ratt.  It's bascically fashioned out of the plywood forms that held the bulkheads; I widened them a bit to accommodate the broader beam of The Fly, reinforced the padding for greater softness, and bingo.  Right now, I'm pinnig battens along the hull, then unpinning them and moving them, then moving them again -- all in hopes of outlining a kind of "plan" for the first planking.  The challenge right now still comes from those accursed gunport strips, that set the top edge in a way that makes an upward curve inevitable for the strakes at the bow, and makes the distance from imaginary wales to keel quite odd, so that both stealers and lots of trimming will be unavoidable.

 

A longer update, with photos will be forthcoming soon (probably after the NRG conference next week -- see you guys there?)

 

Cheers,

 

Martin

[mog]

Martin,

Don't know much about the NRG, except of course this site is conected, is it a good group to belong to ?

also you know you  love the world of planking gunports

all the best

MOG

 

also while I have you here going back a little on yourt Ratt main/fore plattforms did most of the blocks go under know about the bunt line blocks fore and aft, but what about the reef line ect...

[Martin W]

Hi Mog -- If you're in the UK, the NRG meeting would be a bit of a long haul for you, but, yes, it is a good organization.

 

My recollection of the Ratt's blocks is that a few went on top of the platform (without the plans right in front of me, I don't know that I could name them), but most went under.  They really followed Petersen's drawings pretty closely.  If you're building the Model Shipways Ratt, then you have the best rigging plans -- they are nicely detailed.  If you study them closely, you won't go wrong.

 

Cheers,

 

Martin

[Martin W]

Friends -- It's been a long while since I've posted an update -- so long in fact that I had to go back through my own log to see where I left off.  My First Mate and Confidante, Bounce, had surgery to remove bladder stones yesterday, so I'm hanging out with her today and administering some serious pain killers, which seem to have made her lose interest in modelling concerns:

 

                                                 

                                   Right now, I don't even think a rough sea would wake her.

 

What I've been up to is the first planking.  Now, on my other builds I was less than satisfied with the planking, since I got myself into several jams that resulted in impossible strakes appearing in various parts of the hull.  So this time I am determined to move will all the care necessary to end up with both an eye-appealing final planking and one that holds some relation to reality and accuracy.

 

I read through the planking tutorials that are posted here on MSW, and the one that was published in Model Shipwright 2011 (sorry, I can't recall any of the authors at the moment, except David Antscherl).  Even though these were for the most part (not entirely) redundant in describing the method of setting down battens, then measuring the distance between them at each bulkhead, I found the slight differences to be clarifying, and the additional illustrations among all the tutorials to help me see how to proceed.

 

Here are the battens:

 

                                                    

This preliminary step took a surprisingly long time, as I found that whenever I sighted along the hull from a slightly different angle I would decide they had to be moved in one way or another.  My aim was to get them spaced evenly, and for them to delineate straight, parallel bands that would accommodate more or less the same number of planks.

 

                                                 

 

So, first I laid the Garboard planks:

 

                                                     

 

I bevelled the edge to get a clean fit in the rabbet, and did a little tapering at the bow, but didn't really see that much else needed doing.

 

After working out the number of planks in each band (I'm using the kit's walnut, which is 5/32"), I could then calculate the amount of tapering needed for each plank by measuring the distance along the bulkheads.  I recorded the calculation in the chart visible above.  Upholding the absolute rule that no plank can be tapered under half its original width, I found that most of them needed a good bit of tapering at the bow, from bulkhead #4 forward.  Doing this kept them from curving upward.

 

Here are the first four on each side:

 

                                                        

 

Once I got the first band filled in from the keel, I started downward from the gunport strips (or upward, since the hull is upside down), following the same procedure, but without much tapering at the bow.

 

                                                        

 

Here you can see one of the nagging problems I ran into, namely getting the planks to set into the rabbet at the stem:  I would think I had it, clamp it, check, tighten the clamp, waiting for the glue to dry, and upon removing the clamp relying on my sailor's vocabulary to find synonyms for "oh, drat, the blessed clamp let the dang plank slip."  (I've never understood why, but I find that the fouler the language the more effective the catharsis.)  I expect, however, that I can bevel those wayward planks with an exacto so that the top layer will fit in smoothly.  That's the plan, anyway.   -- I subsequently replaced the clamps I was using with planking screws, which were a bit tricky, but definitly held the planks down tighter.

                                                           

 

Here's the view from port, with the first two bands complete:

 

                                                          

 

And here's the starboard bow:

                                                        

 

So far, by tapering each of the planks (and sometimes recalculating the taper) I haven't had to use any stealers or drop planks. But I suspect that will change in the middle band, where the curve of the bow seems to have most effect on the lateral bend of the planks.  At the stern, this middle band also covers the broadest area of the three bands, as you can see here:

                                                        

 

Yes, you're right, that is one ugly hiney, definitely in need of a trim.       That hump in the planking right about bulkhead #10 actually disappears when the ship is set upright -- it simply traces the curvature of the hull.

 

As always, I've peered for long stretches at the build logs of my betters, in hopes of approximating their skills.  At one point in his log, Blue Ensign asks himself, "has it really been twelve days since I started this?"  That has tickled me almost every evening, since with the measuring, tapering, soaking, forming, gluing, clamping, re-clamping, I have managed maybe 2 planks per night.  I started this phase sometime back in early October, so I guess I might say, paraphrasing BE, "Six weeks!?! Criminey.  And if, IF, IF I get this first layer right, I'll be doing this all over again, and with boxwood --Woohoo!"

 

As always, comments, criticism, advice, warnings are all welcome. 

 

Cheers,

 

Martin

Edited November 13, 2014 by Martin W

[Blue Ensign]

Take heart Martin, you're taking the right approach and rough as the first planking may appear to your eye at the moment, it did with mine, a little sanding and maybe a little light filling, will work wonders and the second planking is easier. Of course it's been a fair old time since I did mine, so things have faded somewhat into a rosy glow

 

You're getting a nice even run of planks each side so should end up with a spiler somewhere beneath the lower curve of the hull, which is the best place for it.

 

That tricky business of getting the planks to stick at the bow; the rabbet should help a lot but I recall I used CA for the first couple of bulkheads and into the rabbet assisted by spring clamps and/or bulldog clips pushed on the stem hard against the plank end. You could also try fixing the required curve in them using the damp plank/high heat Hairdryer technique which would reduce the tendency to spring back.

 

It is also a good idea to cut a second rabbet down the stem to take the top planking if only down to the coppering line if indeed you intend to copper her.

 

Wishing Bounce a quick recovery

 

 

Commiserations from William who has had two ops this year and he 'bounced' back very quickly.

 

Cheers,

 

B.E.

[Landlubber Mike]

First, just wanted to wish your pup a speedy recovery.  It breaks my heart to see a furry companion in discomfort like that, but hopefully she is on the mend

 

Looks great Martin.  Taking the time in the beginning really helps.  I think I spend 90% thinking, planning, more thinking, second and third guessing, and planning, and only 10% actually building 

 

Like SpyGlass, i was wondering about your use of the walnut.  The lime is probably easier?  I figured by using the walnut you were just going with one planking layer.

 

Also, just wondering if you decided to paint the hull white or copper it?  In either case, you probably don't need to be as precise lower on the hull.  Though, I'll probably try to do my Pegasus as precise as possible just for practice for future builds.

Edited November 13, 2014 by Landlubber Mike

[Martin W]

Thanks for checking in, guys, and thanks as well to the likes.  It's nice to have folks to talk to about this, since Bounce is doing little more than sleeping and the missus just doesn't want to know.

 

I'm using the walnut because, uh, mmm, well, there was a reason for my decision that I made back in the spring sometime, but I can't recall what it was.  The second planking is going to be boxwood, which I ordered to be the same width as the walnut so that the solutions I came up with on the first planking would (theoretically) translate directly to the second.  I have, in fact, soaked the walnut planks for a minimum of 30 minutes each, then clamped them in place and left them over night.  When I've actually glued them, they're usually pretty well formed.  The problem at the stem, I think, was due to not being able to get the clamp close enough and tight enough up against the plank itself.

 

Spy, your solution of the piece of scrap wood looks good.  I tried something like that, but the wood was much smaller and kept dropping out of place.

 

Mike, like you, I'm somewhat averse to painting where I don't have to.  I like the looks of the painted builds here, but think that using unpainted would might make my own build somewhat distinct (unless my blunders attract all the attention).  I also like the look of all-boxwood.  So that's my plan (read:  hope, foolish hope?).

 

And, BE, thanks for the nice comments.  Truth be told, I chose the most flattering pictures.  And thanks to William for the canine commiseration.  Sorry to hear about his own experiences under the knife.  Bounce is getting close to the big one-four, and has a few age issues that lead to other problems. 

 

Cheers to all,

 

Martin & Bounce (snore)

[aliluke]

All looks fine to me Martin. My experience was that all the planking over the bearding line at the stern had be pretty much sanded off to allow the second layer to fit to the stern post. But you'll get to that need or otherwise in due course.

 

As you'll probably know I had a whole boxwood hull at one point and it sure does look good. Then I painted and coppered - sacrilege.

[Martin W]

Thanks for that, Alistair.  I do indeed remember your boxwood hull, and thought it looked great.  I also like your coppered hull, however, and have always asserted that covering up fine details that took hours and weeks and months to perfect constitutes one of the strokes of mastery.  I would like to copper a hull someday.  (For that matter, I would also like to build something at 1:48, where I might actually be able to see what I'm doing.)

 

Of my previous two builds, one is walnut, the other has holly below the waterline.  Since I love the look of boxwood, that's what I've decided on for The Fly.  Since I also consider this very much an educational process, my hope is to develop my skill set in calculating, measuring, and shaping.

 

While I'm online, I thought I might show what I've done while waiting for the planks to dry:

 

                                                

 

Here's my stove, fashioned after FFM, BE, and Alistair's versions.  It still needs the brass rails along the top edge, and the pan at the bottom, but that's as much as I can think of doing.  Like you guys, I covered a block of basswood with styrene (which I didn't get a whole heap of joy working with).  The bolts are pieces of wire that I glued into pre-drilled holes. 

 

Now as I wait, I'm planning on putting together the gun carriages.  It's not bad work, but after about the third one it loses its novelty.

 

Cheers,

 

Martin

[Landlubber Mike]

Martin,

 

I love the look of an all boxwood hull.  There are a bunch of builds on here that took that approach (including Alistair at one point), and I believe that many of the famous old models primarily used boxwood.  I think it will look great on your Fly - go for it!  I painted the lower hull of my Badger "dull white" using Admiralty Paints, and I thought it looked a little too garish for my tastes.  I also primed the hull before painting, which made the painted area look thicker/heavier, which was also one thing that I didn't particularly care for.  The again, someone on here used a different white for their hull, and I thought it looked really good.  

 

After seeing Toni's Atalanta build, however, I'm thinking of using holly to represent the white stuff on my Lyme build - otherwise, I'm just planning to plank it all in pear.  For my Pegasus, I'm planning to copper the hull.  I plan to use pear above the waterline (still thinking of dying it a bit darker), but the kit's walnut below the waterline to save money (since it will be covered up anyway).  

 

Wow, very nice stove!  Great job!  Can I ask what color/brand of paint you used?

Edited November 13, 2014 by Landlubber Mike

[aliluke]

A very fine stove there indeed. You'll be surprised how little of it can be seen when the forecastle deck goes on .

[rafine]

Really nice work on the stove Martin.

 

Bob

[Martin W]

Thanks Guys, I appreciate you checking in.

 

Mike, I think I used Testors -- whatever is sold at Hobby Lobby, my only source for such supplies out here on the prairie.  I first had to prime it, though, and I think I also used something from the same label.  It was pretty thick, and had the result of blurring some of the distinct lines.

 

Alistair, you're no doubt right.  And when I was griping to myself that styrene is no fun, my Un-enjoyment was exacerbated by that fact.  Nonetheless, I liked the touch it gives your build & BE's.  And then there's the point that one can only learn by trying to do what othes do (and make look SO easy!)

 

Thanks for looking, Bob.  Your work on Essex makes my jaw drop day after day.  Always very skilled.

 

I might mention that BE's reference to spiling made me go through the planking guides I have and re-read the sections on that technique.  Well, as it happens, the very next plank I need to lay has been giving me fits, since it wants to bulge out in a clinker effect.  Well, there's the solution.  The only problem is that I don't have any walnut that's wide enough and 3/64" thick.  This will take some thinking. 

 

Suggestions?

 

Martin

Edited November 14, 2014 by Martin W

[Landlubber Mike]

Since you're planning on planking over it with boxwood anyway, can't just just lay the plank flat, and fill any gaps with stealers?  

 

It's interesting - you read that you shouldn't bend planks laterally against their width, not have planks less than half of their width, etc., but when dealing with kit wood with equal strips I think it's very hard to plank fully by all those rules.  Even on my Badger, I found I needed custom planks for a clean look.  But of course for custom planks you usually need wider pieces of wood than your standard planks (I ended up buying some wider walnut strips for my Badger).  Big reason for why I decided to buy sheets and cut my own planks.

Edited December 1, 2014 by Landlubber Mike

[aliluke]

Hi Martin

I've not yet tried to spile. Definitely next on my learning list but with Fly I only needed a couple of stealers at the stern and very little fill to get the shape. I'm hard on my planks and use CA to make them conform. I also follow the advice to get every plank into the stem without turning pointed planks up to an upper line of horizontal planks. The trick is to taper early and taper way further back along the hull than you'd expect. At the stern the only option on Fly is to spile or use stealers. My next build will see me spile. So for that first layer - I'd suggest stealers and, if you get over width stock for the second layer, try spiling. If you do that you'll have beat me to it!

[Martin W]

Hi Mike and Alistair -- you guys both make good points.  I spent the weekend attempting to do some spiling.  JPett -- one of the Ratt Crew -- suggested I edge-glue a few pieces of walnut planking together to form a wider sheet.  Great idea!  the only problem was that I found out Titebond II is not waterproof (but it says "Water Resistant" on the label, eh?), and everything fell apart in the soaking. 

 

My next effort (since I was too lazy to go out and look for something actually water PROOF, and it was 7.30, and the snow was starting to fall, and, and . . .) was to cut up a piece of scrap left from the frames holding the ply gunport strips (which happens to be 3/63" thick, the same as the planking).  That went well enough for me to make another realization:  the aim is not to get a parallel piece, but an un-paralleled piece.  The bottom edge should fit the previous planks, and the top edge should make for an easier line for the subsequent plank to follow.  Aha!  And now it's the start of a work week, so I might just be able to squeeze in some time during the evenings.

 

 

If I do figure this out, it'll definitely be sheet stock from here on!

 

But then, again, stealers & drop planks are always sound options.

 

Watch this space,

 

Martin

[Martin W]

Well, at 14.52 CST, today, I laid the final plank of the first layer.  Whew!

 

Here's the port side view:

 

                                            

 

Those 2 light colored planks are the spiled pieces for which I had to use some scrap of another wood than walnut.  Because they're scap, and because they won't be seen, I ended them on the same bulkhead.

 

Overall, I was surprised by how many more challenges this middle band of planking posed than either of the other two.  I had to correct my calculations with almost every strake, and especially toward the stern.  What this leads me to think is that I'll need to reconsider the calculations for the 2nd planking from the very beginning in order to anticipate that middle band.

 

As I was planking along the bow, I wish I had Spy Glass's forsight to have kept the stem off in order to bend the planks.  Aaargh!

 

And by way of updating a previous update, I recalled why I chose to use the walnut for the first planking when I picked up a piece of the lime:  it's quite a bit thicker than the walnut, so I thought it might make for too bulky a hull. 

 

Now, I need to trim up the stern, cut around the rabbets to ensure a smooth and even rabbet for the boxwood, and then plenty of sanding and filling in low spots (this last came as a bit of a shock:  I think one of the bulkheads should have been fared more than I did, since it has an indentation on either side).  And I need to figure out how to make the margin between the planking and the ply gunport strip smooth.

 

And I need to figure out where to have the butt joints.

 

Finally, I'd like to say that I've always thought one of the great benefits of living in the States is Thanksgiving!!  I hope my friends in other lands have a reason to feast as well, because it is only pleasure to sit around a table with good folks for several hours.  An over-full belly makes me feel nothing but but cheer toward all --

 

Martin

[Landlubber Mike]

Hi Martin, hope you and your family had a wonderful Thanksgiving

 

Really nice work on the first planking - you're really flying along!  I forget, what are you going to use for the second planking?

 

By the way, I was near Woodcraft over the weekend and picked up a can of the General Finishes "Whitewash."  With Jeff closing HobbyMill, I have been thinking about wood for future builds, which for me includes the Charles Morgan.  The Morgan has a lot of white, which would be expensive to replicate with holly (or difficult to source straight enough stock for), so I have been thinking about alternative.  The Whitewash looked perfect (to me at least) on Jeff's maple, where it gave it a nice white that wasn't garish at all and let the character of the wood come through (where paint covers it up).  It even looked pretty good on pear and walnut.  I think it combines the best of paint and stains - easy to apply and keeps wood character like stains, and colors well like paint.  Just thought I'd pass that along in case you are thinking about white on your build.

[Martin W]

Thanks for checking in, guys, and thanks for the likes.

 

Mike, that's intersting about the white stain -- if it even covers walnut then it sounds really good.  Jeff's closing puts a giant question mark on future builds for all of us.  And it has also made me anxious about the 2nd planking and beyond for this build, since I keep wondering, what if I blow too many planks? what if I have an inspiration for the rails, or something I haven't even begun thinking about yet?  A sad day in Model Town.

 

Spy, the indentation lies just aft of #6.  So did you win?  

 

Cheers,

 

Martin

[Martin W]

Spy -- I agree, those middle bulkheads looked to be right in line, and like you I used them to check all the others.  But that blasted dip is sure enough there.

 

But you know what happens when you bet with yourself, eh?

 

Martin

[Martin W]

Hello Everybody -- This is just a short and swift update before I lock myself in the kitchen to make high caloric dishes for the holidays.

 

Starting on the second planking (in boxwood), I have laid the first two rows, which will be the main wales.  Part way through laying the row below that, I realized that if I wanted to use planking screws to help glue in the second layer for the wales (and I do), I'd better stop the regular planking and lay down the rest of the wales.  So here you see that I've begun sanding the two rows in preparation for the next layer:

 

                                                                        

 

I have already eaten so much that I've begun feeling unsure about my whereabouts, however, so I might not get much done till Boxing Day at the soonest.

 

Till then, my First and Best Mate, Bounce would like to wish all modellers throughout the known modelling universe a happy holiday season, with hopes that your moustache never gets this dirty:

 

                                                   

 

Cheers to all,

 

Martin & Bounce

[JPett]

Ahoy Martin  

 

Happy Holidays to you and yours 

 

The ship looks great BTW 

[Blue Ensign]

Best Christmas wishes to you, Mrs W, and Bounce, Martin, I look forward to following your modelling exploits in 2015.

 

Thank you Bounce, you canine assistants provide us modellers with so much support and companionship throughout the year.

 

Happy Christmas

 

from me and William.

[Landlubber Mike]

Happy holidays to you and Bounce!  My furry companion is a stubborn cat - i hesitate to call him an assistant as he thinks he is a plank nibbler, and don't get me started on how helpful he is when I bring out the rigging line 

 

The boxwood is going to look great on the hull.  It's already looking fantastic.  Love how the stem came out.

[Martin W]

Mike -- In regard to the conversation we've had (largely on your log) about dying the wood vs bulkheads, I wanted to post the picture I promised comparing the dyed bulkhead with the dyed gun carriage bracket.  Voila:

 

                                                                    

 

Well, as you can see, I have proven myself a liar, as the two tones shown here aren't so far apart after all.  Really, though,  without the light shining directly on them, the bulkheads seemed to look much darker.  (And without the light, and without the macro setting on the camera, the dye jobs looked much better -- YIKES, I'd better do some touch up.  )

 

Cheers,  and Happy New Year to Modellers everywhere!       

 

Martin

[aliluke]

Happy new year to you to Martin. Looking forward to your Fly updates next year. I'm kind of stalled on my build right now but chipping away at wee bits...