Dallas by RichardG - Artesania Latina - Scale 1:50 - Early 19th Century US Revenue Cutter

[radrick21]

Sir Charles, you sure have been busy!  Which one took longest to finish?  Some big ships in there.

[Sir Charles Edward]

Raddrick, I believe that the Segal took the longest to build, probably about two years, as I was still active duty in the US Navy until 1981, and could only work on the kit in CIC, when we were in port, and I wasn't on duty.  I did not keep an accurate hourly work done during that build like I did with the next kits.

 

The Dallas took maybe 550 hours to complete, followed by the Scottish Maid that took around 425 hours to complete.  These two kits I did while I was attending the University of California, Berkeley, when I wasn't studying.

 

Next kit was the Mantua Santa Maria, but life situations during that time caused that kit to take almost three years to complete, but I guess actual hours worked on it amounted to about 600 hours or so.  I did actually keep track of the hours of building somewhat until the next couple of builds.

 

Mamoli's Yacht Mary, and Golden Hind were done almost at the same time and I believe that I completed them in 700 and 750 hours respectfully.

 

The last model completed before I began six different kits, was Corel's Half Moon, with some life situations delaying that build for a bit but a total of around 800 hours were spent on construction.

 

Currently five of the six incomplete kits are on hold until I finish the OcCre Montanes, I HAVE to complete at least one kit for me and it is easier to build just one at a time.  Although I do read over the plans regularly of all those kits, just to keep my construction notes up to date.

[RichardG]

I considered leaving the old planking. There were 2 main reasons I didn't. First I wasn't sure of getting a strong bond. Second, given the almost non-existent bulwarks on this ship, I'd have had to add extra height to the existing edge and felt this would then be out of proportion.

 

So far I'm happy with my decision. I'll continue to post here and we'll all get to see if it was worth it 

[radrick21]

Hey thanks for the time-inventory of your past builds.  I had no idea how long it takes, esp the big ornate ones. 

I can't imagine getting anything done in CIC!  (I was a sonar tech myself).  Well, I went ahead & purchased the Victory kit and put it away until I've done a couple of lighter ones.  I'm retired, living alone, so I have all the time in the world.

[RichardG]

Old planking removed

 

I've removed all the old planking. Still some final cleanup of filler to do. I'm filling the holes from the old pinrails with dowel - I think I'm going pin the new ones in, so I need a good foundation.

 

 

I'm rebuilding almost all the deck fittings. I've decided to fix these to the false deck prior to planking rather than just laying them on top. 

 

The new planking is going to be 3/64 x 5/32 (8" to scale) holly. This I got from HobbyMill - very nice. This is my test using black tissue to simulate caulking (as suggested by NMBROOK)

 

 

Nigel (NMBROOK) has posted a tutorial here http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/7445-plank-caulking-using-tissue-paper-tutorial-by-nigel-brook/.

Edited July 20, 2014 by RichardG

[RichardG]

Well while it's being decided what ship I'm actually building (see http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/7309-splash-boards-on-1815-1822-revenue-cutters/), I just wanted to show some progress.

 

I've started rebuilding the deck.

 

The 1/4" x 1/16" basswood for the waterways, is half done (the port side). The curvature at the bow I tried to edge bend. I know some people have been successful with this. I just ended up with crumpled wood. I went with plan B and cut it out of wider stock. I also had to make a simple "thicknessing sander" to thin them down to 3/64" to match the planks. I have no power tools but don't at this stage really need them.

 

 

For the treenails, I'm using the fill the holes method. I plan to drill before I lay the planks, hoping to get better consistency that way. I've built a jig for the holes (I knew I find a use for those old CD cases that are gathering dust in my closet!) I printed and cut out a plank layout then stuck it to the CD plastic against a perfectly sized ridge. I then drilled the holes (the paper providing a location and it stopped the drill sliding). The paper then provides a non-slip surface when I drill from the other side. All I have to do now is build a jig for cutting the planks to length and drill a gazillion holes.

 

 

I've also decided to add stern timbers, I think this is more accurate and I like the look in the link above and Dubz's Alert build.  

 

 

Overall, I happy with my slow and steady progress. I've been doing a lot of thinking before moving forward. I am not doing the deck a third time . I have a full-time job, wife, and 2 daughters (9 and 14) - so I have plenty of other things to be doing.

 

I restarted this build to reduce my work related stress and hey it works  . Of course my wife says I'm getting obsessed .

 

All the best,

Richard

 

 

[RichardG]

I know what you mean Joe. I do think that a model can be "too perfect and regular" - it then gets a little bit soulless. I'm assuming in real life, the treenails would have be within an 1/2 inch margin of error, at this scale that's 1/4mm. So I think I'm going to be ok - even with a jig there'll be some variation and the other stuff on the deck will break things up. If I find it is getting too uniform, I can alway make a 2nd jig and then alternate between them.

 

At the moment, I'm trying not to spend too much time trying to think of everything. In my line of work that's called "Analysis Paralysis" - then you never get anything done.

 

Thanks,

Richard.

[RichardG]

Some Progress.

 

I took a few days vacation with the family and resisted the temptation to take the razor saw and holly strips to cut some planks while away  .

 

I've painted and fitted the stern timbers, along with the waterway. The scarf joints and edges look a little rough at the moment. I haven't cleaned up the black tissue yet, that'll be done when the planking is complete and will look a lot better (I hope!).

 

 

I'm still trying to work out exactly how I'm going to fix the bowsprit and knight-head in relation to the first few planks. I have squared off the deck end of the bowsprit where it fits under the knight-head. I examined a copy of Chappelle's History of American Sailing Ships at the local library but the drawings are not that detailed. 

 

I'm just about ready (finally!) to lay the first plank. It'll be short because of the forward hatch but it will be progress  .

 

My wife and daughters are asking me when it'll be finished - my answer is next year, which seems about right.

 

Richard.

 

p.s. I really need to find an avatar.

 

 

[RichardG]

It's been one of those months

 

When I removed the original planking, I removed all the hatches etc. The forward hatch was salvageable and just needed some sanding and cleanup.

 

The midships hatch needed rebuilding. The exact details for the hatch are not shown in Chappelle's book and the AL plans are for a very simple hatch (which seems reasonable). However I thought I'd make something a little more complex with some hinged covers. The sides are walnut and the tops holly to match the deck. So after some work with wood and paper for the hinges I was done. Except it really didn't look right, the very light planks and black hinges made it look like a piano! The color of the holly also didn't work with the grating on the other hatch. 

 

So, put that to one side and start again. Back to a simpler hatch and basswood instead of holly. Things are going well, it's all sanded and the first coat of polyurethane is one. Then last night, I'm looking at it and thinking something's wrong. It turns out that the hatch is not squared up correctly - there's not a single right-angle in the whole thing!  I don't understand how I managed to spend several evenings working on it and not notice.

 

So it's back to square one and on to my 4th hatch

 

This hobby definitely teaches you patience!

 

Richard.

[RichardG]

Very slow progress. Too many other things going on (including too much time reading posts here  ). I have next week off from work but have a mobile app to build for my wife's school instead of working on the Dallas. Still, nothing bad is happening so that's good.

 

I thought I'd show my deck planking even though it's only partly done. 

 

 

One minor item is that the grain of the deck plywood is not at right angles to the center line. This makes the planks look skewed all the time - very annoying.

 

I'm planning to rebuild the deck house from scratch including creating the plans using CAD. This will be practice for my next project (which I'm also spending too much time thinking about  ).

 

Happy days!

Richard

[kruginmi]

Wow, you are really re-thinking things here!  Great job on the re-work.  I was starting to get worried that the next post would see the hull stripped down to the bulkheads and you reworking the lines!  You are getting sucked into scratch in a big way.

 

Beautiful ship.  

 

Mark

[RichardG]

Thanks Mark. It's difficult to know when to stop! 

[juansystem05]

Hi folks:

 

I have this same kit and I see it is older than me (I'm 26) but my question is:

 

Do you recommend me to work in this kit as my first plank on bulkhead model? Should I start with something easier?

 

I also have the latina swift but unfortunately it is incomplete no bulkheads, no keel, everything else is there.

 

Anyway, thanks in advance for your help

 

Juan 

[RichardG]

Juan,

 

I don't remember having many problems on the hull when I first built it. This was without having the information and help available here. There are some inaccuracies with the kit but that's not unusual. I am as you can see, replanking the deck (which is just about finished). This was prompted by seeing the quality of builds here. 

 

Overall I'm pleased with the choice of kit I made all those years ago. I like the look and it's complicated enough to be a challenge.

 

If you also like the ship and already have the kit - I would go for it. You will find plenty of help and support here.

 

 

All the best,

Richard

Edited March 5, 2015 by RichardG

[RichardG]

Deck planking complete

 

Well after some diversions and much procrastination, I have finally finished the new deck planking. I spent way too much time in the last few months thinking about my next project.

 

 

Overall I'm please with the result and I'm NOT going to redo it just because I can see some imperfections  .

 

I have some deck fittings and fixtures to complete and then I can get onto rigging (scary for me).

 

Onward and upward!

 

Richard.

[RichardG]

I going to try to post a little more frequently (and there's a bit more progress to see instead of another 25 treenails).

 

I'm now constructing the coach roof. For fun and practice for my next project, I've decided to build this up with framing; even though it's all going to be hidden.

 

 

 

Richard.

[RichardG]

Some progress made. I still need to build the frames up for the skylight and hatchway before I cover it all up. I have no idea how accurate this is to reality but it was fun.

 

 

 

Before I start on my next project, I've learnt a few things:

• I need more practice.
• I'll need a few more tools - very small chisels, more clamps, a new razor saw. 
• Basswood is too soft (at least for me).

 

Richard.

[RichardG]

Continuing with carriage roof and deck fixtures.

 

 

I needed to rebuild the iron pivot gun track. In the original kit this was made from thin ply that didn't make it when I pulled up my original deck.  I found a PVC pipe fitting at my local Home Depot that was exactly the right size (only 98 cents!).

 

 

I first tried using thin basswood strips (the former is 48mm dia). I still can't seem to make tight bends in wood. I tried heat and water. Either it would break or crease.

 

I gave up after 4 or 5 attempts and move to laminating black paper. The results were much better. It's not fixed down yet).

 

 

I will need to make some wedges to support the track each side where the deck curves. These I'm assuming would also have been iron. I'm using this as a resource http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ship/sail-armament.htm

 

 

Richard.

 

 

[John Lore]

Good day all, as a newcomer to the website I found interesting this particular post. I too have completed the "Dallas" kit and have always thought this is not the correct name for this ship, as there was no "Dallas" in 1815 (meaning no Dallas Texas). Which led me to think this ship most  likely was christened something else. Perhaps this was originally the "Surprise"?

[trippwj]

Good day all, as a newcomer to the website I found interesting this particular post. I too have completed the "Dallas" kit and have always thought this is not the correct name for this ship, as there was no "Dallas" in 1815 (meaning no Dallas Texas). Which led me to think this ship most  likely was christened something else. Perhaps this was originally the "Surprise"?

 

The Dallas was actually named for Alexander Dallas (1759-1817), who served as Secretary of the Treasury under President James Madison beginning in 1814 (the Revenue Marine and latter Revenue Cutter Service were a part of the Treasury Department at the time). Dallas succeeded in his efforts to establish the Second Bank of the United States, which was chartered by Congress in 1816. He retired the year after the new bank was organized.

[RichardG]

Carriage roof completed. 

 

 

 

 

Still need to add final coats of poly and trim the stern timbers.

 

There's still plenty of deck stuff to do (cannon, pinrails, windless, etc) but I want to take a break.

 

I'll be practicing some rigging stuff which is total new to me. There also one of Chuck's Serv-o-Matics on it's way so I'll need to assemble that and try it out.

 

Richard

 

[RichardG]

Now where was I?

 

Doesn't time fly when you're having fun. I've been on vacation, painted half the house, built a ship for my daughter, got a promotion and a real office at work (with a door!),written 1 1/2 pieces of software to help me with this hobby, learnt a smidgen of 2D CAD, and totally failed on my first attempt at 3D CAD.

 

For the Dallas, other than some cleanup and a lot of (occasionally useful) thinking, I did manage to complete the stern. When I originally did this, it was completely flat. With careful work with some basswood, cardboard, knife, and sandpaper, it now looks like this:

 

 

 

I have no information about how it looked in real life. I'm assuming it wasn't ornate so I've kept it very simple.

 

I have a week off at Thanksgiving (end of November), so hopefully I be able to really get back into the swing of things  .

 

All the best,

Richard.

[riverboat]

Real nice work Richard......... love the redo work, it really paid off..

 

Frank

[RichardG]

Thank you so much Frank.

 

It is looking a lot better. Now if only I can get the rigging right! I suspect there'll be some rework there as well .

 

I've been taking a look at your Alert build - very good. The sails are excellent. I'm not going to add sails to mine (but maybe I need to rethink that!). 

 

Richard.

[RichardG]

Well it's almost June - time to get back to the Dallas.

 

I've been delayed by a mixture of work, another model (1/20th scale Tardis ), getting my garage cleaned out, planning, and of course the omnipresent procrastination.

 

I'm finishing off a few deck items prior to starting the rigging. I've also decided to redo the masts, I think they can be improved.

 

A the moment I'm doing the pivot gun, starting with the track. I had previously re-made this but was not entirely happy with the result. 

 

In the original model this was just a flat ring of plywood (this was destroyed when I removed the old deck). According to this site http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ship/sail-armament.htm, it should be

 

"The pivot gun mount typically consisted of a metal ring, or 'circle' of from 9' to 12' in diameter, on deck and brought level athwartships by a wooden foundation. This circle was usually of iron, though copper and brass could be employed. The section of the circle was a shallow "U" shape, hollow side up, about 5 1/2" wide and 1" thick. The inside and outside rims of the top were raised 1/2" and were about 1/2" wide, creating a track in which the rollers traveled."

 

I was fortunate to find a nylon bearing that made the construction a lot easier. I made rims from 1/64" plywood and the inside from 1/16" basswood. These all had thin tissue glued to the surface prior to cutting thin strips. The strips were then laid into the nylon bearing and glued. When dry, I was able to sand the ring so that is was thinner by using the bearing to hold it.

 

 

 

A couple of coats of black paint and I have the best track I could do.

 

 

According to the details in Chappelle's "The History of American Sailing Ships", a cutter this size often had a long-gun rather than the carronade supplied in the original kit. A long-gun is show on the plans in the book. So I am going to use a long-gun on the Dallas ( ).

 

So now I'm off to make a gun carriage.

 

Richard

 

 

[RichardG]

Wow nearly 2 years since I posted on my build. I am honestly ashamed. Thank goodness this is a hobby otherwise I’d have been fired .

 

I have not however been completely idle. I’ve been doing some work, some planning, a fair bit of procrastination, and lots of scope creep.

 

The gun carriage is almost complete along with deck reinforcement for the pivot. 

I've also made a base. This is a piece of walnut from my local Rockler store. It’s nicely figured to give an impression of water flowing. It has been mounted to a ceramic tile to provide a rigid and neutral colored substrate.

 

The biggest item I’ve been working on is preparation for coppering the hull. My original planking was not great and I was not going to remove it as I did with the deck. However it took me a long time and many tries to find a way to create a nail pattern on the plate that was reasonably accurate and within my abilities. At this point it’s looking good. I’ll be posting about this separately.

 

Other than that I spent a lot of time worrying! Mainly about the rigging. The plan that came with the kit is obviously simplified and I now know enough that I can’t use it. However I don’t know enough to create one for myself. So more work is needed there (mostly reading).

 

Also this is not the Dallas. I’ve known that for a while. Finally I decided to just rename my log and live with it. 
 

Richard.

[RichardG]

Making it worse so I can make it better!

She's no longer the "Dallas" 

 

The primer is preparation for coppering.

 

Richard.

[coxswain]

You're a brave man, and talented, too!!  If I had achieved the nice result you had before, I wouldn't have redone it - I would have just said it's "my" version of the Dallas, but you have principles!   Steve

[RichardG]

Thank you Steve.

 

The model will have compromises because of the lack of information and limitations in my skills. But something that I knew was wrong and was easy to fix - it would have constantly bugged me. Fortunately when she's complete (sometime in the next decade or so!), all of my mistakes and retries will be forgotten.

 

Richard.

[Dr PR]

Richard,

 

I just found your build, and we are  working on similar projects. Like you, I started my build over 30 years ago and placed the partly completed hull on a bookshelf. Recently I decided to continue the project. I am kitbashing a 1:40 scale Albatros Baltimore schooner kit into a 1:48 scale 80 ton revenue cutter from about 1815.

 

 

The 80 ton cutter had a pivot gun, and like you I searched for information - it would have helped if I had found your site first! But working from Chapelle's books I came up with a design very similar to yours.

 

One thing I am uncertain about is the circular rail or track. In Chapelle's "The History of the American Sailing Navy" page 238 he describes a pivot gun from 1801-1812 with the metal "U" ring (essentially the same as on the web site you referenced). Then on the next page he says the metal railings were later replaced by a track that was "rounded" on top. In his "History of American Sailing Ships" page 377 he has a nice drawing of the skid and rail from 1830. It shows a circular "composite" rail with a rounded top. As he says, there were a lot of variations in the pivot guns.

 

I have built a circular wooden rail that I intend to round the edges on. But seeing your post I may go for the metal "U" track. Have you found any other information about when these types of rail/track were in use?

 

****

 

One other detail I have been wondering about is the top of the companionway at the aft end of the deck house. Chapelle's drawings show the hatch, but there are no details how it works. Most companionways seem to have a top that slides back on extensions of the sides of the structure, but these slides are not shown in any drawings in Chapelle's books. I have seen this arrangement on a couple of schooner/cutter models.

 

You have created a top that hinges back, with the hinges about half way fore-aft on the top. Where did you get this idea? Do you have plans of cutters that show this arrangement?

 

Also, where was the binnacle on the revenue cutters?

 

Phil

Edited December 22, 2018 by Dr PR