18th Century Longboat by Mike Y - Model Shipways - 1:48

[MEDDO]

Love the lego idea.  Finally a use for all those things sitting unused in my kids closet

[Mike Y]

It was faster then expected

Small black levers on my lego jig are quite handy to make a fine adjustments of a frame angle and hold it in that state:

 

 

Now all frames are in place! Perfectly straight, I could not find any problems while remeasuring angles and distances. There is a weird place around frame 0 - A - B, the spacing between frames suddenly changes. Not much you can do, the false keel is cut that way. Strange, but not a big deal. The difference is just around 1mm.

 

[Nirvana]

Mike, yes I have the same odd spacing in that sequence. The distance between 0-A is greater than A-B. Whole whopping 1mm!

Edited May 25, 2014 by Nirvana

[Stuntflyer]

The area between 0-A gets a thwart as well as the windlass which might explain the difference.

[Mike Y]

Connected frames together with a kind of false deck planking. It adds stability, frames or transom will not wobble.

 

 

Scrap piece of wood on top is used to clamp the hull upside down into the table vice - it would be in that state while planking and treenailing.

 

 

Now let's wait for glue to set - and it is ready for the frame fairing!

[jburchfield1@wowway.com]

Really learning some things, Mike.

 

You are getting to the part where I have the most trouble - fairing/planking 

 

Keep going dude!

[Nirvana]

Mike, how did attach the "false deck" since it has to removed before the bulkhead inserts are to be removed.

Sent from my S5

[Mike Y]

Per, before removing the frames I cut the "false deck" into pieces using dremel disk cutter. Or I misunderstood the question?

Notice the remainings of false deck on frame centers on that Pinnace photo:

Edited May 27, 2014 by Mike Y

[Mike Y]

For Pops - frame fairing.

 

First I protected the nice shiny keel from scratches with a masking tape:

 

Then the idea is simple - sand away all corners, but do not sand too much to avoid skewing frame shape - laser cut char is a handy indicator, tiny strip of char remaining means "ok, enough".

Any tools could be used - sandpaper, sanding block, files, whatever is preferred. Just don't rush it, make light passes. It will take an hour or more for each side.

Some frames should be trimmed near the false keel:

 

Left side - not faired, right side - faired. Tested the fairing using a plank, it should lay smooth on each frame, there should be a full contact. It will make glue joint stronger.

 

After all, sanded inside part of all frames with a light grit, and applied a coat of poly:

 

it would be tricky to do it later in that part of the frames, without leaving drops of excess poly between frames and planks. So better do it now.

 

Lets have some fun - it's time for planking!

[fnkershner]

Ok Mike as usual you are doing an outstanding job. And generating questions. My first question is did you find that your bulkheads did not line up like mine did in the picture I posted? did you have to adjust the grooves to get them in alignment? Next is there a reason that you waited until the bulkheads were installed for the coat of Poly instead of doing it when they were in the laser cut sheet?

 

By the way I like the shot of the faired bulkheads. It really helps.

[Mike Y]

Hi Floyd,

 

About the bulkhead not lining up - not sure I understood the question. I had no such problem, sockets in false keel and frames should be widened a bit with a file, they are too tight. That is on purpose, and as far as I remember - described in a manual (at least, in Pinnace manual). If they are widened - then bullhead can move a bit, and then I used a jig to align them to 90 degrees.

Of course, they should not be too loose - otherwise the glue joint will be weak, and bulkhead could be shifted to one side, causing a wrong hull shape.

 

For the poly - I did it after sanding to have a consistent layer of poly closer to outer edge of the frame. It could be damaged while fairing s frame.

However, applying poly before gluing frames could be also ok. I strongly believe that there is more then one right way of doing it

[jburchfield1@wowway.com]

Mike, thank you very much for the picture of the faired hull.

 

It appears from the picture that you have "beveled/faired" the bulkhead in a single direction, that being fore to aft.  Is that correct?  Please tell me that's right?

 

The reason I ask is because that may be my "major malfunction".  I have been fairing the bulkheads in two directions - both fore/aft as well as along the bearding line and that has been causing a gap between the bulkhead and plank when I reach the 3rd/4th plank from the sheer line.

 

And I have to thank you again for all the pictures and step by step.  Answering a lot of questions.

Edited May 27, 2014 by Pops

[jburchfield1@wowway.com]

One quick question about the scarf joint.  

 

Did you cut that using just a blade (x-acto)?

[Mike Y]

Pops, yes, only in single direction. In the direction how plank is installed (hence it is one direction in front part of the hull, another - in rear part).

For the scarf - no, I used dremel cutting disk to start a joint, and then file to shape it accurately. It is hard to cut thick boxwood with just a blade accurately enough.

[jburchfield1@wowway.com]

Thanks for the info Mike. 

[Mike Y]

I'm not an expert in planking, and all that methods are created and described by other builders.

Highly recommend to read Longboat build logs from Bob F and Stuntflyer, and of course Chuck's manual.

Plus there are lots of good tutorials in downloads section on this website.

 

But maybe my photos and description would be useful for somebody, so why not posting them.

 

Decide how many plank streaks are you going to have. Manual suggests 12, Bob was using 13, some people use 11. Pretty much depends on width of your planks and desired "curvature" of a hull. Wrong number of streaks is not a big deal, but if  streak width is too small, then you will need to make plank thinner to fit into reference lines.

 

Make a card template for reference lines. Length of a template is equal to length of biggest bulkhead, and it's broken down into 12 parts using template available in downloads section of this website:

 

Mark top plank line. "Default" line is suggested on a plans, and you can adjust it to get a more/less banana-shaped hull.

Then, starting from that line, add marks on bulkheads:

 

Now you can easily see the lines of future planks. Not sure I got it right in the bow, I remember that on Pinnace I tapered planks a lot of fit them on a bow. Maybe this time I will avoid it, or my reference lines on a bow are wrong

 

I will start planking from bottom to the top, to have even plank thickness and avoid "meeting" in between. Reference lines will help to make sure that both sides of the hull will be planked symmetrically.

Plank edge is shaped to fit with next plank or keel on a proper angle. I think it's very important, otherwise it's really hard to have no gaps. It's a very obvious thing that is not mentioned anywhere, strange.

Edge not shaped:

Shaped edge:

 

Then I sand inside surface of the plank. It would be very hard to do it later. I use 1200 -> 2000 grits for boxwood, it adds a really nice shine. It makes gluing a bit harder, though. Using sanding block to avoid smoothing plank edges. 

 

Then I soak plank in a hot water for 10-20 seconds, shape it gently with hands, and clamp onto the hull. I use a very simple clamps recommended on this forum: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/611-easy-planking-clamps

For basswood, make sure you put some wood or card between them and planks. For hard wood, that could be not necessary.

Notice the bend of gardboard plank closer to stern. Better select a plank with fibers oriented on same angle, then this bend would be easier and plank will not break:

 

I will shape the front part of gardboard plank when it's dry and fit to shape.

 

So now let's leave it for a few hours and have a rest! This method of planking is slow, basically one plank streak on a day. If planks is glued too early - it will shrink and leave a tiny gap.

 

 

[fnkershner]

Mike - Great explanation, and good photos. From your pictures I don't see much tapering. Your tick marks look the same.

[jburchfield1@wowway.com]

Excellent photos and step by step.

 

Just one question - did you use the same card template for all bulkheads or did you make a new template for each bulkhead?

 

Maybe that's where I went wrong, because I made a new template for each bulkhead (but still using the same number of planks) and that made them very, very narrow on the front bulkhead.

Edited May 31, 2014 by Pops

[Mike Y]

Pops, I used same template, because planks width is the same. Not all planks will reach the top bulkhead, some will terminate earlier.

However, I have a gut feeling that my marks on the bow are wrong - everything looks clean and logical, but there would be no taper, according to the marks.

So maybe I will adjust them later...

 

Your way of planking also makes sense, but it will look differently (very thin planks at the bow). Less edge bending though.

Edited May 31, 2014 by Mike Y

[David Spindle]

Mike, I am enjoying your build very much.  You mentioned how strange it is that little is mentioned regarding edge beveling of strakes.  I agree with you.  I am struggling with this right now on my Peterboro Canoe.  The planks are so tiny, and the only way I can figure out to bevel the edge is to hold the plank in one hand and take swipes at the edge with sandpaper or a file.  It seems like such an inaccurate way of doing it though!  Would you be willing to share your technique?

Also, I think it was in Chuck's planking tutorial (I could be wrong) that I read a different tick strip should be made for each bulkhead.  I believe he also mentions subtracting one plank at the bow.  

Keep up the great work, Mike....you are doing great!

[Mike Y]

Hi David,

Yes, I simply shape it with file and sanding block. Not perfect, but works pretty well. I also glue edges of planks together, so if shaping is not perfect - glue hides it.

Also that shaping angle is variable, due to different curvature on different parts of the hull.

As for substraction - I also skip planks, if I see that it already terminated before that bulkhead. So I just cut off a piece from the template, and now it have 10 planks, then 9, then 8, etc. The calibration point is a sheer line, not the keel.

But, again, I have a feeling that reference lines on a bow are wrong, because there is no taper. Let's see how it goes, I'll probably find the mistake after planking a few strakes.

[David Spindle]

Mike, I think you aren't seeing any taper because you are using the tick strip you used for the longest bulkhead to mark plank widths for all the other bulkheads.  Bear in mind, I have never done this myself and am just giving you my impressions based on what I read.  I could be completely wrong!

[jburchfield1@wowway.com]

See, this is why I'm having so much trouble with planking.

 

Once I can do this right, I'm sure it will make perfect sense, but so far............

 

I is so confoosed!  

 

I've looked at bunches of pics on the web of longboat hulls and it "appears" that all the planks run almost straight from stem to stern, which is what would happen if planked the way that Mike shows, but most of the pics on here show the planks curving up at the stem and tapering almost to nothing.

[Mike Y]

Yep, Pops, I share your confusion. Spent some time fitting next planks and trying to find what is wrong. So far nothing is wrong, or I lack experience to spot the problem. Whats good with that build - it is just 12 strakes, so if I made a mistake indeed - not a big problem, have enough spare planks and PVA-based glue, which is easily dissolved with water.

It is a great planking training platform indeed! And much easier then pinnace - bulkheads are much wider.

 

Anyway, installed the gardboard plank. The curvature is quite smooth, it should help to reduce edge bending.

[Mike Y]

Mike, I think you aren't seeing any taper because you are using the tick strip you used for the longest bulkhead to mark plank widths for all the other bulkheads. Bear in mind, I have never done this myself and am just giving you my impressions based on what I read. I could be completely wrong!

David, you are right. I was thinking about adding taper, but how to calculate it? And why is it needed? Then traced all streaks - hm, number of streaks should reduce enough to avoid taper.

 

However, I see that lots of edge bending is required to terminate bottom streaks earlier. With tapering less edge bending is required. So it is kind of compromise.

I did Pinnace with taper and practically no edge bending, but will do Longboat with edge bending, but without taper. Let's see what is better!

 

Thanks for a feedback, please feel free to critic and comment! That is the only way for improvement

Edited May 31, 2014 by Mike Y

[gjdale]

Mike,

 

I agree with others who have said that using the tick strip method, you should be using a different strip for each bulkhead. Each strip is the total length for that bulkhead divided by the number of planks for that bulkhead. Clearly then at the bow there will be at least one fewer planks. The planking fan / grid helps you get the spacing of the tick marks for each bulkhead, and this is what will produce the taper. The general rule for tapering is to taper to no less than half the original plank width. That is when drop planks come into play, although from the logs I've seen for this kit, that shouldn't be necessary in this case.

 

Hope this helps.

[jburchfield1@wowway.com]

Thanks for a feedback, please feel free to critic and comment! That is the only way for improvement

Exactly my feeling.  If I don't know what's wrong (or that there is a better way), I can't fix it.

[jburchfield1@wowway.com]

Mike,

 

Each strip is the total length for that bulkhead divided by the number of planks for that bulkhead. 

 

Hope this helps.

This TOTALLY clears up my issue.  It acknowledges that some bulkheads will have less than the number of planks needed for the midship bulkhead.  I was trying to squeeze ALL 10 midship planks into the stem/bow which made them too small with too much curve.

 

Maybe now, I can do this.

 

Thank you Grant.

[Stuntflyer]

Let's say that at the hulls widest point 12 planks will be needed to cover that bulkhead from the keel to the shear line. Since the garboard plank does not go full length from stem to stern, the bulkheads in front of it get fewer than 12 planks. How many planks depends on how many more are necessary in order to touch the next bulkhead. On mine it was 2 more. If it takes 2 more planks to touch the next bulkhead then that bulkhead will only need 9 more planks to cover it, since 3 are already in place. A tick strip at that bulkhead divided by 10 will yield the widths needed to cover that bulkhead. The plank that first touches this bulkhead might not be the exact width of the tick marks but that will not be a problem as you move along. The top tick mark should be lined up with the shear line before the marks are transferred to the bulkheads as it is more accurate than working from the bottom up. I think that using 11 planks makes the scale too large for this boat. 12-13 seems better and 12 seems ideal.

Edited June 1, 2014 by Stuntflyer

[jburchfield1@wowway.com]

Thank you Stuntflyer.

 

Your math makes excellent sense to my left sided thought processes.

 

12 it is.