HMS Royal William by KeithW - Euromodel - 1/72

[Keith_W]

Sorry to disappoint Brian, but I have nothing new to show Everything has gone crazy, and I suspect I won't be able to do any work for the next couple of weeks

[Keith_W]

Just a little update to remind you that i'm still beavering away at this little boat. Not much to say except that first planking is almost finished up to the level of the second deck!

 

 

 

[Keith_W]

No it hasn't, Brian. Not even been cut yet. I had the misfortune of placing my order soon after he received a few massive orders, so the backlog was about two months Maybe it would be quicker if I asked him to deliver the blanks and I could borrow your Byrnes saw and thicknesser for an afternoon?

[Keith_W]

Planking down to the keel is now completed. I have also cut out the second row of gunports. Here she is, all sanded down and ready to go ... while I ponder what to do next.

 

 

 

 

My ambition when I started out was to use no filler. Sad to say, I had to resort to the dreadful stuff. At least I didn't have to use much of it! Yes, I know it will be hidden by the second planking, but it would have given me a lot of satisfaction if I did not have to use any of it.

[Boatsinc2000]

Keith -

 

Please contact me regarding your order.  You may want to check your spam folder as I sent you an e-mail a couple days ago that has gone unanswered.

 

Thanks,

 

Jeff Hayes

HobbyMill

[maggsl_01]

Hi Keith,

 

I really like your log - as I am so much interesed in the Euro Model-products. Your log gives me a very good impression what will wait for me when I ever decide to build one of these models. And I admit: I am very curious about it. I will do it some day... perhaps start with the Derfflinger, but of course my dream will be the Friedrich Wilhelm.

 

I will watch your log and be patient to look forward your build.

 

Best wishes

 

Cheerio

 

Max

 

[kscadman]

Hi Keith, great work on the planking so far. I know what you mean about using filler. The second planking gives you the opportunity to accomplish it.

 

Richard

[Keith_W]

Hi Jeff, sorry for not replying earlier. Somehow your email did end up in my spam folder! I have replied your email. Thanks for your patience.

 

Max, I would like to build a Friedrich Wilhelm as well, but I suspect my next ship will be Chris Watton's Victory. I am always thinking of my next ship!

 

Richard, thanks for dropping in. Yes, hopefully i'll do a better job with the second planking than I did with the first. In any case, I will probably start the second planking (below the waterline) very soon. I may as well get this done while there are no fragile elements that project out the top.

[Keith_W]

Brian, no I didn't. But thanks for the heads up, i'll go take a look!

 

Day off work today. Unfortunately, no ship building. Have to drive my in-laws around

[Keith_W]

Can I have some thoughts as to whether I should copper plate this ship? She was broken up in 1813, and copper plating was introduced in the British Navy around 1750. If I don't copper plate, I will paint the hull below the waterline white.

 

(edit) I would probably use these: http://www.amatimodel.com/en/accessories/minuterie-e-accessori/photoetched-copper-plates

Edited August 27, 2014 by KeithW

[Keith_W]

Brian, the other two boats I have at home are not copper plated. The potential size of Chris Watton's Victory means that it will not be displayed next to Royal William, so I don't need to contrast the two ships

 

I am more concerned about historic accuracy if I do embark on copper plating.

 

BTW, did you ever find a source for gunport hinges? I also found this on Amati's website. Pity it doesn't tell you what the dimensions are: http://www.amatimodel.com/en/accessories/minuterie-e-accessori/hinges-without-pins

 

I am also thinking of putting these on the inside of the gunport lids: http://www.amatimodel.com/en/accessories/minuterie-e-accessori/lions-head

 

6mm in length, each. The bottom gunports are 14mm in height, the mid-deck gunports are 13mm, and the smallest gunports with a lid are 10mm. It should be OK, but again - not sure about historic accuracy.

Edited August 27, 2014 by KeithW

[Keith_W]

Yes Brian, I agree. Those hinges supplied by Euromodel are way out of scale.

 

BTW I found another supplier of hinges: https://www.mantuamodel.co.uk/3_Model_Boat___Ship_Fittings_/Gunports_deckports__hinges/

 

Where did you get your rigols from?

[pirozzi]

Hi Keith,

I have done quite a bit of research on the RW. I also have many photos of museum quality models and for what it is worth, none of them show copper plates on the hull. About half show natural wood color and the rest painted white below the water line. I am going paint mine white.

 

Vince P.

[maggsl_01]

Hi Keith,

 

I am doing the Royal Caroline at the moment. It would be historic accurate to paint the hull white below the waterline. This is right. But I like much more the color and the structure of the timber  - so I will leave it in natural condition (only some colorless semi-gloss lacquer). But I understand that historic accuracy is a very strong motivation to build models . But anyway - I would not use copper plates on this ship.

 

Cheerio

 

Max

[Keith_W]

Thanks for your replies Vince and Max. Looks like the hull below the waterline will be painted white. BTW, I like the look of timber as much as anybody else, but I like the look of a white painted hull. It makes the boat look a little more sleek, if you know what I mean. A bit like a two toned car

[Keith_W]

Thanks Brian. I will be in Brisbane next week, so I can't bring it to the meeting We have some house guests at the moment, so I haven't been able to work on the ship. Then when I get back from Brisbane, i'll be off to London - my first trip back there in 10 years. Quite looking forward to it. Might try to persuade the wife to let me go to Portsmouth and the NMM

[DenPink]

Hi Keith

 

Loving your build.

 

Have a safe and good trip back to London.

 

Denis.

[demonborger]

Some matte finishing spray would fix that ebay ship's glossy coat.

[Wombat]

Now your build us well underway , what do you think of the kit overall. I am thinking about this as my next kit to put in stock for after the san felipe is finished. I have to say that a plastic boat in a kit of this price make you stop and think.

 

 

.

[Keith_W]

Hi Wombat, interesting name for someone who lives in the UK Are you an Aussie expatriate by any chance?

 

The kit is "all right". It is certainly not a kit in the same way that something provided with Amati is a kit. As mentioned, the instructions are so poor that they may as well not have bothered. It would have been helpful if the instructions gave you a suggested build order, but they don't even do that. If you look at the build logs on MSW, you'll see that each of us are building it in a slightly different order. VinceP has completed the first planking up to the top deck before starting second planking. I plan to start my second planking before I reach this stage to avoid having to invert the model and damaging deck features. Just one example.

 

Things that you would expect to fit (e.g. all the laser cut parts) ... don't fit. This is a critical realization to make very early in your build because (if you are like most normal people), you would be taking reference and locating features off your laser cut parts. You need to accept that the laser cut parts are approximations, as shown by some examples I have highlighted during this build (e.g. the bow bulkheads not reaching down to the keel!). Instead, you absolutely MUST take reference off the plans. This in itself can sometimes be problematic, because the plans don't always clearly show where a feature should be located. A great deal of intuition, study of other builds, and prayer is needed.

 

None of these problems are insurmountable. A much more difficult problem is what you are going to do about some of those fittings! Some (e.g. the gun carriages) can be fabricated. Some others (e.g. gunport hinges) will have to be replaced with third party parts. And some others (e.g. the windows supplied as metal plates) will have to be discarded and made anew. But yet some others are not so easy - e.g. the fine filigree work at the stern, the stanchions, etc. All this could be avoided if Euromodel replaced these parts with photo-etch.

 

They say that Euromodel is more a scratch build than a kit build. That is certainly true, because some of the supplied parts are so substandard that you will need to scratch it yourself anyway.

 

In any case, I am sure it will turn out to be a fine model. I just don't think it is such a great kit.

[Keith_W]

That's OK Brian, I know that you and others think that my assessment of this kit is overly harsh, and that I am being too critical - but I think it is important to point out where the pitfalls are for people who will follow. To me, I have always found the most helpful build logs are those which clearly point out "Beware of this! Don't make the same mistake as me!". If it wasn't for other build logs which have clearly identified problems and workarounds, my build would be even more sloppy than it already is!

[maggsl_01]

Hi Keith,

 

I personally agree with this Kind of openness. It is important to know if there are some strange things about the kit - so I can decide clearly if I want to take this challenge or better not. Of course I would like to build kits like this as the amount of scratch (up to 50 percentr as it was mentioned before) and  it is good to know about it. How dissapointing would it be to purchase a kit and find out, that one cannot walk with the difficulties.

 

For me ist good to know also the "unsatisfying" or "bad" sides as I badly want to manage a Euro Model kit someday. Ist always the thing to Balance between "What do I get" and "What do I want". And therefore every Information is good.

 

Cheerio

 

Max

[Nightquest1000]

Hi Keith,

 

nice build!

 

I have two notes, you might consider.

 

Maybe I have overlooked these in all the comments, if so, please excuse the repetition.

 

RW dates back to ca 1670, but ships wheels have not been in use before ca 1700. That means, she was operated by a tiller or whipstaff. That there is no wheel included in the kit kind of implies this also.

 

Hull coppering goes back to around 1708 to 1710. Again, RW would be too old for a coppered hull. Historically you would be safe to show an underwater hull painted with a broken white, to imitate the lead containing white stuff, that they used before copper sheathing was invented. The other option, if you hesitate covering a wonderful planking job, just leave it natural. Maybe treated with some antique wax.

 

best regards

Tom

[Kevin]

Keith Jullier did a very good review and made a lovely job in his book http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=ISBN%201-85486-081-X

[Keith_W]

Thanks for your remarks, Tom.

 

And thank you also for the link Kevin, but I already have that article

[piratepete007]

Keith Julier's book does contain a 'build log' for the Royal William. How many people have actually read his work sentence by sentence - or have they just 'seen' the article ?  He was able to cope with the kit as it was and gave minimal criticism and from that point reading his text in detail is worthwhile. Even with the restriction of virtually just using the kit, he still produced - as others have said - a fine model. However, the level of expertise being shown by KeithW is in another totally different realm. KeithW is a fine craftsmen and his work is impressive.

Pete

[piratepete007]

Likewise Brian, I bought the Keith Julier book (Vol. 1) secondhand and devoured what KeithJ said before opening up the kit box and looking at its contents. It was then that I realized I could improve on what KeithJ did (with no disrespect intended) and it was a great starting point for my build. Now we have VinceP and KeithW (and BrianC is also very active on his great RW creation) creating marvelous works of art which just go way beyond what I had time to do (or could do) . Their works show how far you can go beyond what a kit can readily provide ... and then there are the elite builds of the Royal William such as that by Nigel Brooks. Sorry guys if I missed out somebody but there are so many and these names just come to mind.

Pete

 

PS Keep these works going shipmates and see how far you can stretch the envelope. Very exciting

[Wombat]

Hello Keith,

After checking out your build log, I have taken the plunge and bought the Royal William kit direct from Italy. I will follow your build with interest but it will be sometime before I start it as I have the current build of the San felipe to complete, however I hope to gain much from your logs.

[Keith_W]

Peter, with no disrespect to Keith Julier, I found your RW resource much more helpful. For a start, your Interpretive Info contains logs from other modellers, and thus more than one interpretation of how the build should go. I am not sure I agree with you in all respects, e.g. my interpretation of the plans slightly differ to yours and Julier's. In time, my model might end up looking like some horrible cobbled together matchstick monstrosity (which would be my punishment for striking out my own way instead of listening to more experienced modellers), and everyone on MSW will be able to see it But then again, it may not!

 

Wombat, I am glad that my criticism of the kit has not dissuaded you. I would like to say again - I am not bashing Euromodel. Well, apart from my disappointment at some of the castings and parts. But those can be worked around. The subject of the kit is unique, and the model is beautiful. I had one look at Brian's, beheld the size of the thing and its sheer beauty (not to mention Brian's craftsmanship), and I was instantly smitten. You really need to see a well built model and you will be convinced.

[piratepete007]

Keith,

Thanks for your great words. The thing I like about the Euromodel RW is that there can never be a prescriptive way of building this ship. That is the beauty of the kit - do your own thing, which is exactly what you are doing. The sad thing is that much time has gone by without adding material to my interpretrive files on the RW. I have been getting many queries for more files on the Friederich Wilhelm, Derfflinger (and a few others) and now the English schooner Lyde is raising its presence. So to all, I have never stopped working on ship-building but just dabbling in a number of different ports.

Pete