HMS Royal William by KeithW - Euromodel - 1/72

[thomaslambo]

Hi Keith,

 

Really beautiful job you're doing on this amazing ship...my hats off to you as I'm still struggling with how to plank the Bounty 

[Keith_W]

 

All the decks have been planked over, except the poop deck. I managed to salvage the deck I was planning to discard, turns out that I could remove the planks fairly easily. Wood glued to plastic isn't as secure as wood glued to wood - run a scalpel between the plank and the styrene structure, and the plank just pops off. It leaves quite a bit of CA residue, but that is easily scraped off. 

 

Other RW builders will note that the shape of the decks is quite different to that given by Pete in his Interpretive Info. The shape of the deck was arrived by placing the poop deck (which has the correct curvature) on a piece of paper, and Part 53 on either side of it until the rear edges are flush with the poop deck. From that, I traced a line. That gives me the rear line of the deck. For each deck, I placed Parts 51, 52, and 53 respectively. I drew and built the deck slightly oversized - I then placed them on a model then used a ruler to line them all up and shaved them back. Finally, the transom was dry fitted and further adjustments made. 

 

You can also see how the decking material accomodates the openings for the doors. You can just catch a glimpse of the interior with the doors slightly ajar, so I did not have to veneer over the whole inside deck. 

 

The contours of the planks follow the galleries closely. Slide a gallery over the deck, and it will fall into the planks with a satisfying pop. 

 

 

If you study the rear of the USNA model of the Royal William, you will notice a few features that Euromodel's plans do not have, and make no provision for in the kit. 

 

 

One of them is ceiling decorations and a center column. I have added the decorations. It is nowhere near as elaborate as the USNA model, but good enough in my opinion. I have also turned some columns on my lathe (not pictured). The circle in the center is to hold the columns once they are installed. 

 

 

The galleries have had most of the column decorations added. The last set of columns will be added once I determine the position and angle of the archways (depicted in the previous post). This is surprisingly complex - when I get around to doing so, I will make a post about it. 

 

Next to the galleries is a picture of my doors, yet to be cut out. You can see that the doors are assembled on a piece of transparent styrene. A diagram of the door is drawn on paper, then the styrene taped onto it. I then plank over the plastic and paint. When done, I just cut it out and install. 

 

 

 

... and lastly, a couple of pictures of the model as she is. Probably about five more things to tick off my list, and then the poop deck goes on. 

Edited April 24, 2016 by KeithW

[Keith_W]

Oh yeah, one more thing. To all those who were concerned about Tamiya masking tape. That tape, which has been protecting the painted while hull below the waterline, has been on the ship for more than a year. I removed some to have a look, and it came off cleanly. No glue residue. Hull still nice and white, as good as the day I put the tape on. So - nothing to worry about then! 

[Greg the peg leg sailor]

G'day Keith

Bloody marvellous mate. Love all of it. Your tendency to be perfect, is definitely showing off in you work!

As the saying goes in Australia "if a job is worth doing, it's worth doing right!".

Bravo mate

Greg

[BANYAN]

Great work Keith, coming along very nicely.  Doing that small scale decoration must be giving you a headache or two huh?

 

cheers

 

Pat

[Keith_W]

Thanks Boyd, Greg, and Pat. 

 

It's not the small scale decoration that bothers me, it's all these 1-2mm building errors I keep finding. That the deck is off by 1mm and needs shimming is irritating. And now something else - I found that I cut the gunports on the port side of the ship 1mm off from the starboard side. Normally this wouldn't matter, EXCEPT that I won't be able to fit the spiral staircase on the port side because of intrusion by the gun carriage. I have to do some surgery to remove the gun carriage I have already installed, re-cut the hole, move it back 1mm, then cover up the rest. Fortunately it will be painted over so any repairs won't be too obvious. Something to do tonight. 

 

I wonder if it's only me who is making all these errors - none of the other RW builders seem to be reporting any. 

[Greg the peg leg sailor]

You might be the only honest one mate.

Havagooday

Greg

[BANYAN]

It's just that you are being honest and posting your 'pick-ups' - many others don't but you can bet we all make them

 

cheers

 

Pat

[Greg.Ashwood]

Howdy Keith 

New to this site, but been reading it for a long time.

Very impressed with your solution on the transom.

All the best

Greg

[Keith_W]

Thanks Greg, Pat, Brian, and Greg (and welcome to this site!). 

 

Greg, looks as if you are considering a RW? I see that you have commented on two of the build logs this evening. Even though I am having problems with my build, I do recommend this kit as it is enjoyable, addictive, and presents different problems for you to solve! 

 

Brian, I considered making a post about what Euromodel needs to do to update this kit, but the last time I said something like this, I was accused of bashing Euromodel. So, all i'll say is this: 

 

1. Every builder of this kit, including PiratePete and Keith Julier, have replaced the kit supplied stanchions with their own. 

 

2. They need to supply a Photoetch sheet. Things that should be photoetched: gunport hinges, windows, those little decorations on the verandah of the 3rd deck and poop deck, the side entry door decorations. I am particularly annoyed at the gunport hinges - anyone who looks at them knows they are unacceptable, and it is close to impossible to fabricate so many on your own. As you recall, we got together and asked Rick Shousha to make them for us. Cost was close to 5% of the price of the kit. 

 

3. Pre-cut laser gunports would be nice. 

 

... anyway. 

 

A couple of days ago I reached another milestone. The poop deck went on. This is an event one year in the making, I took a bit of a break from posting between April last year till early this year because I was working out how to address those stern windows. Now, all the galleries have been built, glued in place, and the poop deck is on! 

 

I'll post some pictures later. 

[Greg.Ashwood]

Howdy Keith

I might do the RW after I finish my Royal Caroline build. A quite a few years off though.

All the best

Greg

[NMBROOK]

Keith,absolutely STUNNING work,the stern looks fantastic    .I have been following quietly in the background,watching your dedication coping with the trials and tribulations of this complex stern.Your patience has paid off in spades.

 

Kind Regards

 

Nigel

[Greg the peg leg sailor]

G'day Keith

Great job toon the transom. It looks great. I forgot to mention that I'm so pleased that the masking tape came off and on again with no problems.

Havagooday mate

Greg

[md1400cs]

Keith,

 

Somehow I missed discovering your build log until now. OH MY this is such excellent work. I'm joining the list of followers.

 

Going downstairs for a second Latè. And will go back to your page 1. No I won't click Like too many times I'll probably be tempted to.

 

Cheers,

 

Michael

[marktiedens]

Keith - you are right about needing a few improvements. The gun port positions are very critical - just a little bit off & it throws everything off. Did you know that Chuck at Syren is working on photoetch hinges? Knowing him they will be very nice. A template that you could tape to the side of the ship to mark gun ports would be nice. I suppose you could cut up one of the plan sheets to do that,but the plans are in 2D,& probably would not be good to put on a 3D surface. Mantua provides gun port templates for some of their larger models,which is a big help.

 

Mark

[Ponto]

Superb efforts on the stern,...  looks like you've overcome some hurdles that seem to be inherent with the kit !!

 

jp

[Keith_W]

Thanks Greg, Greg, Mark, JP, Nigel, and Michael! Your comments are very much appreciated. It's a little intimidating with you guys watching. 

 

Anyway, here is a little video I took last week of the top gallery of the stern sliding on. The "pop" when the gallery clicks into place was so satisfying, I just had to take a video to remember it: 

 

[Keith_W]

Also, I don't know if you are aware ... but toothpicks make great substitutes for paintbrushes. 

 

 

This is a comparison of a mark left by a toothpick against a 0.5mm pencil. I can leave a thinner stroke if I didn't load up so much paint on the toothpick. You can see that the mark left by the toothpick is neater and denser than both other marks. 

 

 

This is a comparison of marks left by a toothpick, a paintbrush, and the finest nib gold marker I could find. 

 

I don't need to tell you the advantages of toothpicks: 

 

- cheap and plentiful

- no need to clean

- every time you need a new colour, just shave a bit off the top and keep using it

- superior mark to paintbrush and paint markers! 

- you are not limited by the paint marker's choice of colour. Any colour you can buy, or mix, can be used

Edited April 25, 2016 by KeithW

[Keith_W]

Some progress on the RW.

 

 

All the decks seem to line up nicely. 

 

RW builders will note that I have built in a feature that I have seen in museum models but not in Euromodel's plans. 

 

 

This picture was taken from Euromodel's website. The red arrows show the galleries sitting flush on top of the railings. The plans suggest the same. 

 

 

However, the stern from the NMM's model of the RW does not agree ... 

 

 

... and neither does the model in the USNA. 

 

 

This is not the RW but the fourth HMS Victory (launched in 1737) - again showing that the galleries are not flush with the railings. 

 

I decided to extend the decks rearwards and give them a different profile to that suggested by the plans so that the railings would clear the galleries. Unfortunately, this means that the metal decorations may not fit ... so i'll have to do some surgery on those decorations later. 

[Keith_W]

 

Poop deck is finally on! 

 

I am now constructing the poop cabin. The fact that I am planning to light it is posing all sorts of problems and making me find different solutions to what would normally be a standard build. For example, the internal support structures are 3mm thick perspex instead of wood which I would normally use. I have to do this so that light gets through. 

 

After finishing the stern galleries, I should proceed to install the transom. However, because I am going to light the lanterns, I would have to install the lanterns as well. The thought of working on the rest of the ship while the fragile lanterns hang off the stern made me decide to put it off for now. I will finish all the major woodwork on the ship first, and then return to the stern. 

 

 

A bottom view of the stern, showing off the ceiling decorations and the column. 

 

 

You can catch a glimpse of the gallery in front if you look through the open door. 

 

 

The internal reinforcement for the poop cabin is made from perspex. I should note that the metal part supplied by Euromodel appears to be lopsided - the curve on one half does not appear to match the curve on the other. I initally obtained the shape by tracing out Euromodel's part, but when I realized that the shape was a bit off, I ended up drawing my own shape. 

 

 

The decorations were dry fitted for testing. 

 

The lower line for the decorations was obtained by using a compass and tracing a 10mm line above the wale below it. In fact, the lines for all the wales were obtained this way. I think it is important that all the wales are lined up, otherwise the model might look a little lopsided. 

 

 

The metal decorations are all sorted, cleaned with acetone, painted with metal primer, and ready for painting. 

 

 

Construction of a replacement front face for the poop cabin is under way. 

[BANYAN]

Some really nice detail there Keith, and a good choice in going the 'proper' route with the plans.

 

cheers

 

Pat

[Keith_W]

Another update. 

 

 

Having decided to put off the transom for the time being, I am now installing the metal side decoration pieces. The lower limit of the decoration was determined by reading the plans - 1cm above the last wale. I simply took a compass, set it to 9mm, and drew a line exactly parallel to the last wale. I subtracted 1mm because the black line will be hidden under the metal decoration and I wanted some leeway. 

 

Other RW builders will note that the plans call for the side of the hull to cut exactly at the termination of the poop deck. I did not think that this would look very nice so I made sure that I had at least 1mm to play with. 

 

Each metal piece needs to be shaped to conform to the hull, with holes cut out for gunports. Initially I used a Dremel with a cutting wheel, until I found out that a pair of Xuron nippers did a much faster and neater job. It does leave a nipping mark, but this is easily cut off with a scalpel. Oh yes, the metal is soft enough to be carved with a sharp scalpel! 

 

You will also note that the side window (Euromodel part 11260) has been replaced with a scratch built window. This is necessary to let the light from the LED's through. It also looks much better than the Euromodel supplied part. 

 

 

I have completed side decorations to the area of the fo'c'sle but decided to stop for the time being while I install the beakhead. I fabricated a replacement for the Euromodel supplied part. This is Mk. 1 of the piece - I do not like the look of the archways so I removed them. I will be fabricating another replacement soon. 

 

 

Pins were soldered to the railings and holes drilled into the hull to accomodate. As you can see, the railings happily sit on the hull without any glue whatsoever. 

 

 

A cursory examination of the railings tells you how much they need to be bent to fit the beakhead. 

 

 

... and they need to be bent in three dimensions. Not going to be an easy task. 

 

 

Having determined the position of the cathead support, I proceeded to cut out a hole for the cathead. 

 

Uh-oh. 

 

As you can see, the cathead will be much too close to the first gun, and this was despite cutting out the gun position exactly as per Euromodel's plans. Here you can see me moving the position of the gunport - glue in a filler block and recut the gunport. 

 

 

While i'm at it, I also found that I cut the starboard poop deck gunport FIVE MM short compared to port! As a result, the metal decoration does not quite fit. Here you can see the repair - remove the decoration, fill in the defect with a block, then re-install the decoration. 

 

I will have some thoughts on gunport positioning in the next post. 

Edited May 2, 2016 by KeithW

[Keith_W]

For those who have yet to cut out the gunports, you should take note that the position of some of these gunports is absolutely critical. Not all are. 

 

Ideally, Euromodel should provide pre-cut plywood gunports, like other kit manufacturers. If they don't, they could supply a paper template - but they don't do that either. Instead, they supply plans. Whilst the plans are very good, they are a 2 dimensional representation of a 3 dimensional shape. As a result, the position of any features drawn in the plans which curves away from flat in the real ship can not be trusted. 

 

Furthermore, what most RW builders have done is trace out the plans on tracing paper, then align the tracing paper on the model to cut out the gunports. This is not reliable either. I have multiple gunports which are off by as much as 10mm - in 1/72 scale terms, this is a massive error. 

 

Fortunately, the position of most of these gunports don't matter very much. But a few of these gunports definitely matter, and I would like to draw your attention to them. 

 

 

1. The position of this gunport should be located at the end of the transom support (Parts 54/55). It abuts, but does not cross Frame 7. Because this gunport does not open, I would suggest that this gunport not be cut out until the transom support is located. Otherwise your transom support might foul the gunport opening. This is not a discovery you want to make when your second planking and wales have already been installed. Fortunately, mine were correctly cut out. 

 

2. This gunport is located immediately under the termination of the poop deck. As other posts have indicated, the length of the Euromodel supplied poop deck is incorrect when compared to the plans. Most of us have shortened the poop deck. If you do this, you will now find that the gun carriage which should be installed in this position will foul the curved staircase that should be installed. 

 

If you have an eye for this kind of detail, I invite you to look at all the pictures of Euromodel RW that you can find. You will see that this is a common mistake - a mistake that I also made. I had to fix my error by re-locating the gunport (install wood blocks, re-cut). Don't do what I did - learn from my mistake! 

 

3. The position of this gunport on the second quarter deck should be exactly one length of metal part 11184/11185. You will see from my above post that I did not realize this. Fortuitiously, on one side of the ship the position of the gunport was exactly correct. On the other side, I was off by 5mm and had to make repairs. 

 

 

4. If you locate these gunports improperly, you will not be able to install the fenders. I realized this before the second planking went on, and I had to relocate a number of gunports to accomodate the fenders. 

 

The fenders are 3mm wide. I suggest you cut a strip of 3mm wood and check that the position of your intended gunport does not foul the fender before you cut it out. 

 

Take reference from the location of the side entrance. It should abut (but not cross) Frame 1. 

 

5. If you do not take care in the location of this gunport, you will foul the cathead. Do not cut out this gunport until the location of the cathead has been determined. 

 

6 and 7. Neither of these gunports have their position accurately marked in the plans. This part of the ship curves away thus the position can not be trusted. You will note that neither of these gunports can be opened, and the position is strongly influenced by the position of the beakhead railings. I suggest you do not cut out these gunports until you have dry fitted the beakhead railings. 

 

With the rest of the gunports, you can have an error of a few mm and up to 1cm but it won't prevent you from installing any features. These are the only gunports you need to worry about. 

Edited May 2, 2016 by KeithW

[marktiedens]

I totally agree with you Keith,especially regarding gun port one above.

 

Mark

[usedtosail]

Very good information Keith for future builders of this model. Isn't this what makes this sight really great?

[Kevin]

stunning work, its a pleasure to watch her come together

[Greg the peg leg sailor]

Very good information Keith for future builders of this model. Isn't this what makes this sight really great?

 

I agree 110%. Thank you Keith for a very in depth instruction. I'm sure other RW builders in the future will (should) take your advice.

After all that is what this forum intend to do best. Pass on others members errors to help their friends.

Havagooday my friend

Greg

[Keith_W]

Thanks for all your likes and comments guys! It is very much appreciated. 

 

Very good information Keith for future builders of this model. Isn't this what makes this sight really great?

 

Not as great as PiratePete's Interpretive Info. Any prospective modeller who wants to attempt this kit is well advised to take a look there. I have read and re-read it so many times that I have almost committed it to memory. Still - this is a very large and complex kit - there is plenty of info which Pete has not included. I am hoping that if you take the sum of all our build logs and Pete's I-I it will make things much easier for others. 

 

I am very open about posting my mistakes and what I have to do to correct them. If I were to re-attempt this kit, I would do a much better job of it. Hopefully, someone else who comes along will not repeat the errors that I made, and I have made plenty. 

[md1400cs]

Keith,

 

Stunning work. I may have clicked like too many times catching up (:-) Your log is a delight to follow, as well as being super informative.

 

Michael

[piratepete007]

Hello All,

 

Generally I sit in the background watching all these builds of the Royal William with a myriad of variations which are always fascinating. I admire each and every one of them and enjoy the solving of the problems that these variations create. These builds have moved away from the basic kit build - but that so easily happens ! There is an 'invitation' hidden somewhere that invites these changes.

 

In the meantime, I am making changes to my files as a result of what I see on MSW.

 

I feel moved to make a comment on one basic point - gun port positioning. The positioning of ports on the gun and main decks is already pre-determined by the supporting blocks but it is the upper ports that need careful alignment so that they fit in with the metal ornamentation. Also the port adjacent to the transom side gallery needs to be cut out after the transom is completed.

 

In simplistic terms, the gun carriages - already constructed - mounted on the deck surfaces will themselves determine the height of the port. It is the longitudinal positioning that becomes critical to match in with the metal ornamentation. 

 

The problem will always be that some builders take their measurements directly off the drawings which is TOTALLY INCORRECT. The problem comes about due to the inward curvature of the hull that creates a larger measurement than the drawing indicates. The first diagram below (from the Euromodel Resource File for the Falmouth) illustrates this point by comparing a vertically arranged drawing with the actual ship behind it.

 

The second diagram (thanks to advice from Nigel) illustrates a useful method for determining port positions. Here a vertical marker is used to determine the actual height above the keel, taking the measurements off a vertically arranged drawing. If this does not make sense, send me a PM to save room on Keith's post .

 

 

Pete

Edited May 3, 2016 by piratepete007