Preussen by Chasseur - BOTTLE - barque

[Chasseur]

Thanks Dave!

 

You have given me a lot to think about and there is still more research to be done. Thanks for the knowledge about; There's also a wave that can propagate from the water that passes under the hull, rises to the surface (following the hull shape) and meets the water passing along the side. Where this occurs, it's magnitude and the angle of this small wave depends on the hull shape. Compared to a prop driven vessel, the wake will be relatively smooth with much less froth. & I suggest that you consider increasing the interval and magnitude of your swells and depict them with blown-away crests. The wind effects on the sea need to match the number and set of your sails. <<<<< This is great advice!

Jeff

[dgbot]

Fantastic job Jeff However I have read that some SIB modelers use plastene for their sea. Less headache and easier to fit in a bottle. It can also be sculpted and shaped before it cures. Seems to be easier on the nerves than wood.

David B

[DSiemens]

David, I think that depends. Plasticine does go in very easy. The stuff I've used never really cures but stays stiff enough it doesn't move either. There is some molding that can be done out side of the bottle but a lot gets squished around going in. Sculpting while in the bottle is tedious but not impossible. Jeff is looking to put in a lot of detail. Especially if he's looking at wave spacing and wave direction in regards to wind. With that level of detail I think wood its the right answer. He can get exactly what he wants and it won't change after it gets in.

[Chasseur]

Yesterday and today I had a break-through regarding painting oceans and colors. Also I have Jack Needham's book coming to me on an inter-library loan to further my study on ocean waves, direction and color. An excellent link for ocean color and painting is Water Recipe's Parts; one, two, and three on YouTube by non other than Marge Kinney.

 

Marge is a really nice lady and an excellent artist. Her style is impressionist based I. E. Vincent van Gogh etc.

 

Marge does an excellent job of explaining color pallet etc. especially for oceans and she gets it right!

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aucEi6YGc80

 

So this weekend into the Man Cave I go to practice some more carving and painting to... improve upon my technique until I get it right. Then I'll proceed with the final outcome!

 

Stay tuned ... Jeff

 

 

 

 

[Chasseur]

Today the Polar Vortex hit and we have snow, minus 21 degrees Celsius with the windchill. Good day to be inside. The first two shots shows my second attempt with deeper carving and wood primed in grey to show the fuzzes. I took my dremel and sanded the fuzzes off before continuing.

 

 

 

Next shot is middle section done with Games Workshop acrylics. Old paint but still works! This picture shows wood primed with Regal Blue.

 

 

Next shot is the right section done with enamel & oil paints. This piece is primed with Testors Dark Sea Blue.

 

 

Next two photos we finish the middle section with some Regal Blue mixed with varnish (secret sauce) then some Scaly Green and Ice Blue, followed with some Testors White enamel for the white caps. I just love mixing things up to try new techniques. These seas as my wife call them are "Happy Seas" full of life and nice swells. I dislike them! They look like moguls on a ski hill. They do however look sort of Folk Artish.

 

 

 

Next two shots we have the right section with Dark Sea Blue, secret sauce, and a rubbing technique I'll describe further on here in this post.

 

 

 

Next shot is the same seas with different lighting. The color change is quite dramatic. I like this outcome!

 

 

Next shot is the two side by side for comparison. My Eldest and youngster like the right, and the wife likes the middle acrylic section. I am still undecided at the moment. I still think I can do better!

 

 

The one example on the right which most of us liked was a freak occurrence. I was in the process of using, and laying down, a bunch of artist's oil paint and was going nowhere real quick. I basically was making mud. I got mad and took a towel to wipe it all off and was pleasantly surprised at the outcome. It was the effect I was looking for. I know I'm close I just have to tweak it a bit and I should be ready to go for it. It's really hard to paint ocean on wood at this scale however I know I can pull it off. Still waiting for Jack Needham's book to arrive for color inspiration as well.

 

 

Jeff

[Omega1234]

Hi Jeff. Gotta admire your perserverance and dedication! It can't be easy to do.

 

Well done.

[Chasseur]

Thanks Omega!

I'm getting closer with each try. It's also nice when you don't have to rush and can take your time.

Thank's for the encouragement I really appreciate it!

Jeff

[Omega1234]

Hi Jeff

 

Any one of the examples you've shown could pass. It just depends upon what type of sea-state and wind conditions you're trying to replicate.

 

Having said that, I agree with you when you say "what a difference different lighting makes".

 

Keep going and I'm looking forward to seeing what you eventually go with.

 

All the best

Edited November 17, 2014 by Omega1234

[Chasseur]

Well... I had last week off and I had a chance to do a lot of research into making seas etc. The following three pictures show all of the mistakes I made plus I learned some things of which I want to share so others will not make the same mistakes. Also I hit a website that had the answers I needed. What I found was best to just carve some basic swells "not too undulating" but just enough to show motion. I also found out the best way to feather in the acrylic paints (paint choice I made) was with my air brush to eliminate any brush strokes at this scale. The best thing after painting up to the wave crests to show the sea was the use of clear silicon dabbed on.

 

Mistake number one was; I should of painted the sprays, and any high-lite detail, before applying the silicon technique not after.

 

Mistake number two was; I should have mixed in the white acrylic paint into the clear silicon for the wave crests BEFORE applying the ice blue and clear coat. I tried dry brushing the Skull white and Ice blue afterward and it was a mess!

 

Mistake number three was; I should of used Future Floor polish sprayed on the seas with my air brush instead of the varnish! The varnish tended to pool up and I lost a lot of the detail.

 

I am getting closer with this technique. I'll do up another example to show all who visit here, and... hopefully it should be what I am looking for before proceeding to the next step.

 

 

 

 

Definitely getting closer!

Jeff

[dgbot]

You are learning from your mishaps.  To me  making a realistic sea is magic.

David B

[Chasseur]

Yes David you are correct. I am hoping to capture some of that magic at this scale. lately inspiration is coming from Mr. Rex Stewart. I am hoping to set a new standard when it comes to modelling seas in a Ship in Bottle Model. Many times I wanted to throw in the towel and go back to plasticine. I will endure and persevere!

Jeff

[Omega1234]

Hi Jeff. You know the old saying...if at first you don't succeed, then try and try again...! You're definitely on the right track.

[Chasseur]

Hi Omega...... yep still in the trying stage however getting closer ... Jeff 

[dgbot]

A couple of years back I was able to attend the Mariner's Contest in Newport News.  I went buy the miniatures area and saw a sis of a Royal Louis that took a gold.  I was able to track down the builder and ask him a few questions on his build.  He informed me that he used Plastene for the sea and acrylics to give the proper shading and color.  Then a top coat of Future Floor Wax.  This gave a sheen that highlighted the shading and added to the realism.  A fellow modeller I knew said the it was knocked down from gold because the blocks were to to scale.  That was a conceit I did not agree with.  One of the judges from Manitowoc told me he would have given it gold.  The reason was basic.  He was measuring the proportions by eye.  And he was not going to risk damage and take the case off and use a micrometer to get the exact dimensions.  

I think he did the right thing.  Some may disagree with me but I am used to illusion to get a part correct looking at the smaller scales.

David B

[Chasseur]

I would totally agree with you David. It's interesting as some modellers can pull off the illusion at small scales and it looks and feels right even though it might be out a bit in scale. Man that must have been a tough act to follow at that event you where at. What I really enjoy about MSW is everyone here is really friendly and always willing to lend a hand or share techniques. The latter really makes this forum a great place to hang out. I feel really blessed to be part of this fraternity.

Jeff

[dgbot]

That is one of the reasons I go to Manitowoc every year and help out.  The modelers know me as I act as a gofer giving everyone a hand.  I take pleasure trying to second guess the judges.  And asking questions on techniques and putting people together who can help each.  A couple of years ago John McCann from the Rocky Mountain Shipwrights brought in an exquisite model of the burial barge of Kufu.  A real work of art and skill if I can locate it I will post it,

One of the visitors so loved it and asked me to hook him up with John.  The end result was it was donated to the Oriental Institute in Chicago.  John was thrilled because of the hassle of bringing it from Colo. to Chicago.  I took one look at it and fell in love.  So did the judges.  

Found it!!

John Fox III was in town and blew mind mind when he said he had a Constitution in his pocket.  He is my go to for SIB models.

This is why the show is unique,  everyone is having a good time and learning new things at the same time.  Even those who did not place were happy and learned new things.

The perpetual student and learner.David B

Edited November 19, 2014 by dgbot

[Chasseur]

David a very interesting model indeed. I am fascinated by the stowage of the oars. I have never seen that type of concept before.

 

John Fox III has been an inspiration as a SIB modeller to myself and countless others. When I was first contemplating getting into Ships in Bottles I think I must have read everything he had posted on his site. He is truly an artisan to say the least and apparently a really good musician as well.

 

Good on you to be a gopher as it's always better to give than receive. I like to serve as well and it's a joy to help and great to meet new people. If you see John in the future say hi from a gopher in Canada ha ha ... Jeff

[dgbot]

I have always been amazed every time McCann brings a model.  It usually is something old and based on nautical archeology.  I would love to get a crack at his sources.  If I posted every model he has brought you would be amazed at what he comes up with along with the build log log with sources listed along with photos and plans.  I sat next to him at the Sat. banquet one year and it took a massive amount of self control not to quiz him for the rest of the evening.  I think maritime archeology is a hobby for him and he transfers that hobby to model building.  

David B

[DSiemens]

I can pass on your hello Jeff.  I see John in my local club all the time.  He really is an exceptional modeler and a character on top of that.  He always has some wise crack that makes us all laugh.  David your right about his sources.  He seems to know every one and it gives him an in where there otherwise wouldn't be one.  He's working on a clipper ship now and was able to obtain a copy of the original plans because he knew a professor who happened to be speaking at the library where the old records were kept on the east coast.  He had reached out to the library before but hadn't heard back.  Helps to know people.  

Edited November 21, 2014 by DSiemens

[Chasseur]

Hey Daniel that's awesome. I have never met John just have emailed him, however he seems like a really nice man from what people say about him including yourself. Also you are right it's not what you know it's who you know that can give you the winning edge in life. Yes please say hi from Canada.

Jeff

[michael mott]

David the Kufu boat is one of those that I have thought about for a long time, it is my favourite in Landstrom's "Book of the Pharaohs" also the book "The boat Beneath the Pyramid" by Nancy Jenkins and John Ross. both of which i have spent many hours reading.

 

Michael

[Chasseur]

I was back at it trying to nail down my technique plus re-learn how to use my air brush properly. The trick is all in the thinning of the paint and a liberal application. This time I used the same colors and dry-brushed the white on before the silicon was applied.    The first shot shows some random swells carved into the fir. Another thing I noticed I have to be really careful to ensure I do a close inspection of the wood before painting as... when acrylics dry they shrink and any flaws will be revealed once the paint has thoroughly dried.

 

 

The next shot shows the stage just before the silicon is applied. For some reason I ended up with darker seas.

I think this is because I never used the secret sauce before I applied the silicon. So now I know for sure the secret sauce is a must!

 

 

The next two pictures shows the silicon applied and different light when taking the pictures. Also an epic failure on my part or.... maybe not depending how you look at this is.... I went with some swells and nothing was boiling/frothing up per say. As well, to be quit frank I am not liking this effect. It's not what I am looking for. The last attempt was closer regarding the boiling effect.

 

 

 

So here is a summary of what I have learned to this stage of the build:

• Don't use cheap primer, I will by some Testors white acrylic primer and shoot it with the air brush
• Ensure the waves are cleaned up thoroughly and make sure no grain marks are left what soever
• I am probably going to dump the Dark Sea blue enamel and go to the same color in acrylic or close to it (fumes are bothersome because I can't shoot in the garage it's minus 30 degrees Celsius right now!)
• Ensure all the white dry-brushing is done before the silicon is applied
• Make sure the secret sauce goes on before the silicon
• Open up the application of the silicon to get the boiling effect I want
• Finally I think there needs to be a clear coat over the silicon with Future floor wax or this latex clear sealer I have

I was trying to purchase a flow agent to use with my acrylic paints and couldn't find any at Michaels craft store. I went with distilled water and a few drops of dish soap. Things went okay  however erything I have learned so far from the internet says to use the proper flow agent for the brand of paint. I am going to go to my favorite hobby shop and score some proper paint/flow agent and some more goodies. I want the final paint job to be bang-on. I am getting closer ....

[Chasseur]

Today just for kicks I decided to try out making a couple of wake's. I used some clear silicon and then mixed in some skull white thoroughly. I let it dry and then dry-brushed on some light blue. After drying I put a coat of (semi-gloss) clear varnish on. Looks okay except if you look closely you can see a crackle effect. I think it should pass!

 

 

 

Tuesday I'll stop on the way home from work and purchase some more supplies. I'll fine tune the colors and I should be ready to move forward with the real thing!

 

Jeff

[dgbot]

Justin F. Camarta has an excellent book titled Waterline Dioramas.  I do not have it at the moment but there are several ways to make water.

David B

[Chasseur]

Yeah I have seen that book advertised on the Internet and it looks Ike a good reference. Trouble is if I order it new it comes from the U.K. And will cost a small fortune to get it here to Canada.

Jeff

Edited December 1, 2014 by Chasseur

[dgbot]

Have you tried Seawatch?  He is here in the states.

David B

[cog]

Jeff,

 

through abebooks I found this one:

 

Waterline Dioramas: A Modelbuilder's Artform.

Camarata, Justin F.

Published by SeaWatch Books (2009)

ISBN 10: 098205792X ISBN 13: 9780982057926

Used Hardcover First Edition

Quantity Available: 1

From: Gallagher Books, ABAA, ILAB (Denver, CO, U.S.A.)

Bookseller Rating:

Price: £ 52.12

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Shipping: £ 22.42

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Item Description: SeaWatch Books, 2009. Hardcover. Book Condition: Fine. Dust Jacket Condition: Fine. 1st Edition. Quarto, about 11.25 inches (28.5 cm) tall, in gilt stamped reddish brown cloth. 228 pages illustrated by photography, most in color, and drawings. A book of instructions on how to produce dioramas for the display of ship models. It includes significant information on coloring and production of sea water. Detailed and beautifully produced. Both the book and jacket are bright, crisp and unworn. Bookseller Inventory # 20074

 

I presume you might even find one less expesive through abebooks.com, maybe even amazon ...

Edited December 1, 2014 by cog

[Chasseur]

Thanks COG I'll check it out ... Jeff

[Chasseur]

Things were going good until last Monday when I unfortunately came down with a sinus infection and sore throat. I ended up flat on my back for three days to recover from this dreaded virus going around at work and in our community. So in-between deep sleep and trying to eat a bit I managed to go onto the Internet and do some more research as advised by; David B. and Carl AKA COG.  As well, I got Camarata's book coming to me via an inter-library loan.

 

What kept coming back to me was to develop my own artistic style and use modeling past in conjunction with gloss gel medium. Greg Alvey on his website was a great inspiration to; (his alternate method) of using the aforementioned with acrylic pigments. So once I recovered I headed back to work last Friday. On the way home a pit stop to Michael's was in order to pick up the following; modeling paste, gloss gel medium, cerulean blue, green deep, ultramarine blue, and some airbrush clear coat. Please see the following pics:

 

 

 

 

Also my man cave was an absolute disaster. I have the complete interior for a 1973 Nova SS in it, car parts, tires, etc. I took 4 hours yesterday to completely clean my cave and reorganize everything. I also turfed some stuff I really don't need anymore and... some stuff I'll give away to bless others. So a little blessing in disguise to re-assess where I have come from regarding the modeling of the seas and where I eventually want to end up. I am shooting for seas that will look to scale somewhat, add a little folk art into it, and add a touch of my own artistic style!

 

It's so nice to have the cave in order and I took advice from a jeweler to have my work space elevated to save on the back while modelling. I used an old sewing machine stand with some timber screwed on top to get a better working height ergonomically. So now I'll be working on attempt number six with the hope of establishing a nice looking sea which will complement the clipper hull and give the appearance of this majestic ship cruising the ocean blue.

 

 

So there you have it. A bit of a lull however... a few lessons learned and Rome wasn't built in a day.

 

Jeff

 

[michael mott]

Hi Jeff I have that book if you need to see it sooner that the inter library loan is getting it for you let me know.

 

Michael