Jolly Roger by Brenticus - FINISHED - Lindberg - PLASTIC - As a Royal Navy Frigate

[Brenticus]

Ahh, that makes more sense.  I'll search around for some images of how the anchors are stowed.  The model of the Vestale will serve, I imagine. 

 

Pudding...I had to look that one up!  And now I have learned something else!

 

I might be too lazy to pudding the anchor ring...I'm not sure yet lol.  But I just might give it a try (as I tried to make the deadeyes/ropes- but abandoned that one pretty quickly).

 

Lol hopefully it won't come to "starting" !

[popeye the sailor]

most ship of this era stowed them in much the same way.    you could look at Dr. Dafi's diorama.......you can even see how the puddening looks 

Edited September 10, 2014 by popeye the sailor

[Blue Ensign]

It is surprising that a kit is produced without hawse holes, very strange.

 

I don't think the hawse holes should be at the level of the wale, rather slightly above the the gun deck level. The cables run into the gun deck, are secured around the riding bitts and are led below to the cable tier thro' the fore hatch.

 

An alternative is not to rig the cables at all, when at sea the cables we're unrove and the hawse holes were stopped up to reduce water ingress.

 

Ps: the rope covering of the anchor ring is called puddening .

 

B.E.

Edited September 10, 2014 by Blue Ensign

[popeye the sailor]

my bad..........I corrected the spelling.  just figured to help the gent out of a tight spot   

[Brenticus]

Oh sweet!  There's a way for me to not rig it at all!  Let's do that one! 

 

Actually, I'm not sure what I want to do just yet, but thanks for all of the options/ info.

[Brenticus]

After some delays in waiting for things like waiting for silkspan (which has now been replaced with Modelspan, though not on the website...was in a note from Bluejacket), etc. I have returned to my model.

 

Last night, I was able to paint all of the yards (troublesome things at this scale, if one intends to paint the studdingsail yards a different color, which I believe was the norm), and make my first sail. 

 

I used Blue Ensign's method for the most part, though to a lower standard of accuracy (no clues, reef points, etc.), with one change- while I was letting the sail dry over the cut-out area of the cardboard, I added some small weights (jelly beans) to stop it from returning to shape.  This seems to have worked well, and the sail has just a little concave to it, but is still very tight, as I have seen it in many videos of square-riggers- not quite as billowy as the vacuum-formed sails, but probably a little more accurate (correct me if I'm wrong).

 

I probably won't be able to work on the ship again until next week, but I'm glad I kept progressing with it...I don't want to (and can't) let it sit.  I'll hopefully have most of the sail/yardwork (ha!  yardwork!) done soon and will post pics.

[Brenticus]

Also, I have done some research regarding the frigate La Flore/ Vestale and the hawseholes, anchor cable, etc.  In most pictures I have seen of the more intricate/famous models (like the one in the JFK Library), the anchor chain just sort of seems to disappear into the ornamentation of the bow.  In none of the models I've seen are the hawseholes readily visible, as you can see on the example below.

 

And from another model (Amati) here:

 

This is good news for me, since I am too scared of messing something up to drill hawseholes (had a lot of trouble getting the bow ornamentation to sit right...and it still doesn't quite sit where it should).  Given this, I think I'm going to just kind of cheat and hide the anchor cable by having it feed up into the bow and maybe disappear at the appropriate place- as it seems to do in the pictures above.

[Brenticus]

I have finally finished making the sails, simple though they are with no clues or reef points, etc.  I figure that's probably ok at this scale, but I'm not sure.  I certainly like how it looks, especially the color.  I sewed the sails to the yards as per the instructions, a method I would give mixed reviews but is easy if nothing else.  Anyhow, here is what I've got :

 

What do you all think of the sails- honestly?  I'm a little afraid they might be a tad plain.  I had made one with vertical lines, etc.but the lines were too bold I though, so I erred on the other side of things.  But y'all's (I'm from KY I can say that lol) honest feedback would be appreciated.

 

Cheers!

[Rick01]

Looks as if no one else is game to comment here. This is a personal preference and nothing against the work you've put in but I prefer not to display sails as I feel that getting them to look/hang correctly just doesn't work as scaling down canvas seems to be a major problem (it also cuts back on the amount of rigging required!) You may like to check this book out for hints on rigging http://books.google.com.au/books?id=IAKSAwAAQBAJ&pg=PP6&lpg=PP6&dq=spritsail+%26+spritsail+topsail+braces&source=bl&ots=A25dB9igIc&sig=ITx35oaC6ePaAkhostEMQ7gQXAw&hl=en&sa=X&ei=QZvyU4_gJMeIuATFyoLQBg&ved=0CEQQ6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=spritsail%20%26%20spritsail%20topsail%20braces&f=false I used it a fair amount when converting Jolly Roger to a french frigate. 

 

Rick

[Brenticus]

While I love a ship under sails (though I think it really works best if one goes all out and adds crew, and perhaps a sea base), I think this particular model- and a lot of square riggers in particular- look better with bare sticks.  It's just so much easier to see all of the intricate rigging, etc.  But since this is a gift, I'm going to go with the wishes of the recipient (my mom).  I sort of quizzed the my mom about which models look best (under the guise of how I should build my own), and she and dad both thought the ships looked better with sails.  I was a little disappointed, since I thought they looked better without, but here she is- sails fitted for their sake.

 

I actually, just got that book recently!  Though it may be a little detailed for me.  My deadline is drawing near, and at this scale I don't want to deal (or pay for) all of the blocks and deadeyes, etc. that would be required for a truly accurate rigging.  However, I appreciate the recommendation.  It's a great book. I particularly find its layout logical and handy- and it allows me to understand which lines do what, even if I can't do its detailed explanation justice this time.

 

I imagine that book will be very handy when I put together my Sultana, as well.

[popeye the sailor]

you didn't use the sails that came with it.....I know that might not have been what you wanted to achieve,  but they would have had a little better detail for you.   the thing about sails at this scale,   is that it's too small even for the use of a sewing machine.   lines could have been drawn on them to imitate the pleats,  would have added a little.....but them there's the edgings to take into account too.   I see where your going with it.......for what the kit is,  you have done a great job of her.  I intend to use the supplied sails for mine.....I'll just paint them to look like canvas.  my admiral wanted it.......now I have to build it.  my reason for doing it.......I say I may not want to put my heart in it,  but my creedo as a model builder,  will override.....and I will do the best I can on it      you've done a really good log on her......left me some damn good breadcrumbs to follow.   I just wished the admiral liked battle ships 

[Brenticus]

Yes, I was afraid I might have fallen a little short there (not that I am unhappy with it).  The sails that come with it aren't bad, so I was a bit torn.  But I had also read that that are supplied with kit will sag, and I had never tried making sails so I figured that might be a good way to address both points.  It's a mixed bag I suppose, but I'm sure the recipient will be just as pleased.

 

Thanks for the feedback and kind words.  I've certainly learned a lot with this build, and hopefully some of the issues this log has recorded will be of help in keeping the higher-ups of your life content

[Brenticus]

As a small update, 2 things are new.

1. I forgot when my mother's birthday was, and it turns out it's 2 days away...not 2 weeks.     I have my work cut out for me to get all of that running rigging done

 

2. I finished the rigging for the spars last night (the lines that raise/lower the spars, that is...don't remember the name).  That is some tedious work!  Also, it's practically impossible to tie them to the places indicated in the instructions.  I'll post a couple of pictures about that a little later.

 

Anyway, I've got my work cut out for me!  Hopefully I will have all of it done VERY soon!

[popeye the sailor]

oh......oh......guess you'll have to hurry      I'm positive your MUM will love it!

[Rick01]

Popeye a word of warning - the moulds for this kit are 40 + years old and with mine the decks did not line up causing a lot of trouble when installing masts and later the shrouds. They actually sat 2~3mm forward of where they should have been!!!

 

Rick

[popeye the sailor]

yes,  I'm well aware Rick.......from what I've read here and what I've gathered from different articles,  this is one of those kits that should have come with a contingency manual     actually,  I'm glad now that I held off on building it....I will know better when I do 

 

 

How did it go Brenticus?..........did your MUM like it? 

[Rick01]

I will say that other than the deck alignment the rest of the kit went together well. However the rigging plans should probably be forgotten completely

 

Rick

[Brenticus]

It's finished!

I missed my deadline, but only by a few days.  The finished product- not without its flaws- is below. Some of the lines sag, and I did my best to fix this, but sometimes I just couldn't get it to stay tight- particularly when it's fixed to something as flimsy as that modelspan.  I applied superglue to keep it rigid, but it just wasn't straight enough.  Next time, I'll know to use wire.

I took a few liberties with the anchor and with the lines from the corners of the sails running aft

 

 

 

Here is another place where I changed the configuration from that of the instructions, which insisted on fixing the lines coming from the sails be attached to the side of the ship at the lower part of the gundeck.  That seemed an awfully long way down and a huge trouble in the case of changing sail, so I looked at some more pictures.  Most of these showed the same lines being fixed to the ship much higher, so I tried to emulate that.

 

I was short on time, but I had to find time to at least add the lines going from the main yard to the stern.  But, believe it or not, this wasn't in the instructions.  So I looked at some pictures of other models and of the Surprise/Rose and made my own approximation with one of the extra pieces from the kit.

The kit also didn't specify that the corners of the topsails should be fixed to the main yards, though this was evident in pretty much every picture I saw.  So I fixed that too- it took little enough time. 

 

This is probably the weakest part of my model, and close examination will show that one side is slightly different than the other in the way the foremost anchor is lashed to the ship.  I was having trouble finding a definitive source on how this should look, and again I was out of time.  So I took an illustration from A Young Officer's Sheet Anchor, which seemed minimalistic, and added a couple more lashings as I had seen in many other pictures of models.  The result is probably somewhat dubious, but I doubt the recipient will notice or care, thankfully.  Next time, I will definitely have to do more research, though.  Oh, I did add puddening though!  Something I had not been familiar with.

All in all, I am thrilled with my model, flawed (very flawed, though that is mostly due to the instructions) rigging and all.  I thank everyone here for their advice and encouragement, and I can't wait to push myself a little further and try something more in-depth (and maybe on a larger scale lol) that will have more detail and be more accurate.  Can't wait to start the Sultana! 

 

And any critiques are welcome.  As we in training (my current profession) say, "feedback is a gift."

[Brenticus]

Oh, and I made the stand myself, sort of.  I had a trophy shop make me the base, ordered the brass parts from Bluejacket, and put it all together- including the terrifying experience of drilling holes in the bottom of the ship in order for it to be secure (the keel was too small for the stands).

 

I think it looks pretty good!

[mtaylor]

"Looks pretty good" says he.   "Ha!!  Looks great!!!" says I.   You used good info on the fixes and I hope that your mum loves it.

[popeye the sailor]

I think it looks great!   you did a fantastic job on her     thanks for showing us how to persevere  through a difficult kit!     glad your MUM was pleased!

[Brenticus]

Thanks! I'm glad the elaborations I added look good.

 

It's nice to have my first build under my belt. Now onto the Sultana, as soon as I have the scratch!

[itsme74]

Hi, Brenticus.

 

Your ship looks great. I am currently working on the same model and I'm actually glad to see that I am not the only one who had trouble putting this ship together. It seems like almost every piece does not fit and I've had to do a lot of sanding and carving to make things work.

 

Job well done!

 

Cheers,

Karen

[Lucius Molchany]

Looks good!I made mine to resemble The Surprise!           

[Brenticus]

Looks good!I made mine to resemble The Surprise!           

 

Nice!  I do love the Surprise.  I named my sailboat after her .  I kind of wish I'd put white on the bottom of mine.

[Lucius Molchany]

Yes it does really make the ship look classy!