Armed Virginia Sloop by GuntherMT - FINISHED - Model Shipways - scale 1:48

[BareHook]

Looks great, yes beware the magnified photo, but 99% of people enjoying your creation will be using the naked eye, I had to force myself to "move-on" at times when the fine details were killing me.

[themadchemist]

Hey Brian
I tend to think the treenails are perfect. Treenails in the deck were not end grain exposed, dowels, but plugged with a cross-grain cut plug with the grain of the plug lined up with the decking grain, so that the treenail plugs nearly disappear on an actual ships deck.
 
Check out this thread
http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/740-methods-for-making-treenails/page-2

and a real treenail plugged deck


Geoff Matson also shows this side view of the plugs from the USS Conny, nice piece of history

 
Your fitting of the waterways is beautifully done. And your deck sample looks excellent. it looks to have a pretty nice 4 plank shift and lines up pretty good for eyeballing it.
 
I love those quiet moments while wet wood or glue is drying and I have the time to think about everything I've done.
I believe it was Mark Taylor that once said he slowly bent the curvature by slowly adding water a few drips at a time, then waited for the wood to relax. He'd then wet the next section. Small clamping stress, water and time achieved and almost impossible bend. He said it took HOURS over days IIRC. It made me change my whole philosophy in building and slow WAY down. Wood and its ability to be shaped is a mystifying thing and every wood has it's own personally.
 
So what do you think of Holly. Its a great planking and carving wood. It's so velvety and the grain is so much harder then basswood and doesn't round or fuzz like basswood or breakout during carving. It also makes a quite striking deck. The tissue paper looks good. Myself I've only used pencil on the long boat, but would like to use paper and thread at some point to simulate caulking.
 
Brian your AVS is slowly becoming a beauty. Nice symmetry on the wales at the stem BTW. I knew this would be a fun watch. WAY better then TV, I guess as I no longer have it, as life is just more interesting.

[GuntherMT]

Thanks for the feedback gents.  I hope to not need anything like 'filler' for gaps in the deck, I was only using filler to plug the tree nail holes to simulate them.

 

Treenails are one of those things that I think are something everyone will have a different opinion on as far as visibility goes.  While the photos from Keith show treenails that are all but invisible, there are photos from the Endeavor in Australia that show the exact opposite:

 

While I don't want glaring black treenails, I think I want somewhere in the middle.  I may use this exact same method, but simply use larger holes, as I think that would come close to the visibility seen on Dubz Syren, which I find visually quite appealing.  While they aren't high contrast with the deck, they do add a detail that I think really makes the overall effect striking.

 

As for the Holly, both Holly and Boxwood are incredibly nice woods that I really like.  Since the spirketing planks are going to be painted, I almost made them out of Boxwood, but I ended up using the Walnut out of laziness, as the correct size was already cut for me. 

 

Jeff was kind enough to send a few extra pieces that he probably ended up with after cutting my planks that are less than full length with a rough end, so I chopped up a couple of those for my fake deck sample.  The lengths of the individual planks are obviously cut way too short to get the butt-shift pattern visible on such a small sample to play with the look.

 

Depending on what sort of look I'm going for, I may use Boxwood for deck planking in future builds, if I want a more muted tone.

 

Off to work, thanks again for the feedback gentlemen, I value your opinions and ideas as I progress further into this hobby.  Have a great day!

 

Edit: Forgot to include - the photo above is from this post by hornet - http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/8317-to-treenail-or-not-to-treenail/?p=246825

Edited October 30, 2014 by GuntherMT

[themadchemist]

Thanks for the picture and link Brian, I've added it to my decking collection. I hoard reference photos and links, they come in handy.

 

Looking at the picture blown up, the treenail plug holes appear to be filed with the same sealer as the deck lines. I wonder if this was a historic practice or something done on only the replica. Always another question....

 

I do agree with you on "do what pleases you". There are as many ideas on tree-nailing, at least as many as there are builds and builders. It really only matters what pleases you. Dirk's work is beautiful and I haven't looked in on his build recently, one I need to fix the email glitch on. Anyway, that's the best part of exploring others builds, the ideas that you pick up are tremendous. I can't imagine building pre-MSW, especially as a beginner.

[Redbeard]

I've always liked her looks...carry on and do her well

 

Looks like a keeper so far

 

 

John

[Mahuna]

Nice work, Brian.  I had trouble with my first draw plate - from a jewelers supply house, I think.  I purchased the Byrnes draw plate and it made a world of difference.  If you plan to do a lot of treenails I highly recommend it.

 

Frank

[GuntherMT]

Thanks for the kind words.

 

So last night I clamped the piece for the port spirketing plank in place and kept is soaked for a couple hours, and then this morning before leaving for work I wet it again.  This evening I worked late, but wanted to finish this plank, so I marked the scupper locations and unclamped it, and it held shape beautifully, so I went ahead and clamped it in the vice and cut all the scuppers in and shaped them.  I then added the beveling and rounded the upper inside edge and sanded everything and it looked really good.  I test fit and it dropped into place perfectly, so much so that only one spot even needed a clamp to hold it against the waterway.  Woo!

 

So I pulled it out, and being the nit-picky person I am got out the 320 grit sandpaper for one final sanding to get the finish perfect before gluing in place.  Just as I was about done, the sandpaper 'caught' on one of the scuppers, and....

 

Welp.. 

 

Oh well, I'll cut a new piece tomorrow and start over on this one.

[aliluke]

That's just the way it is and just way it's going to be. Welcome to our nightmare! Doing it all over again is part of the game and, strangely, part of the fun. Happy Halloween!

Edited October 31, 2014 by aliluke

[lamarvalley]

Welp.. 

 

 

Sorry but it made me laugh because it conveyed your emotions so accurately.

 

She's looking good Brian and the next spirketing plank (I didn't even know the term until this build) will be an even better improved version. Sanded to 320 of course.

[Mahuna]

Hi Brian

 

Sometimes lessons learned are painful, but they help improve technique and process.  You're doing very nice work.

 

Frank

[themadchemist]

Is it not glueable? I've found many times if the break is clean and with the grain, gluing will fix it and most times its unnoticeable, unless the grain twisted in the break.

 

That is the heartbreak of building... anything that can go wrong ... will usually happen right before gluing, after you've expended the maximum time in preparing it. Randy is right though, the repeat always seems better as experience is a hard teacher.

 

I once did a copper electroplating analysis lab for determination of Cu % in a metal sample... 7 times.

The teacher even stated the lab did not work and asked why I continued. My reply was "this is a classic electrochem lab and it should work." I found in a 1923 quant text that the solution wasn't acidic enough, and was the 1st 100% in years. I also rewrote that lab and they added my name to the manual. There is no substitute for perseverance.... except maybe determination...

[dgbot]

Brian I am surprised that you did not take a belt of scotch.  That problem would have driven me to the nearest bar.

David B

[GuntherMT]

Keith - I did glue and clamp it.  I won't know until after work this evening if it's useable.  One of the breaks was quite clean and I think will be fine, but the other did something really strange, not even sure how to describe it, but the pieces didn't fit together at all, so I'm not sure how it will come out.

 

David - I guess it's times like this that I pay for not drinking!

[GuntherMT]

So I got home and unclamped it, and as I feared the 'odd' break didn't glue very well.  I went ahead and sanded it down smooth at both breaks, but the odd break ended up with a slight kink, and as soon as I tried to test fit the plank it snapped at that break again, so I'll have to fashion a new piece.  This isn't a huge deal, except that the kit doesn't actually supply the walnut I'm using for this purpose, the plans show a different size of walnut, so I'm afraid that I'm going to now be short three pieces of this walnut I'm using for something else.  It might actually be the poop deck planking walnut, in which case it's probably not a huge deal, as I'm seriously considering planking that deck (more of a roof really) with cherry.

 

Oh well, I'll deal with that hurdle when I come to it.

[themadchemist]

Hey Brian

Its a MS kit, contact ME, they are well known for replacing wood at no cost, even for opps.

 

Its worth a try. I've know a few that have gotten replacement wood for MS kits.

[GuntherMT]

Yes Keith, they did a great job replacing the mis-cut bulkhead.  If I figure out that I need this wood later I'll drop them a note.

[Grimber]

Hey Brian

Its a MS kit, contact ME, they are well known for replacing wood at no cost, even for opps.

 

Its worth a try. I've know a few that have gotten replacement wood for MS kits.

 

 

that's cool of them.  wish AL would replace the ply pieces for these old kits.  stuff just falls apart in your hands.

[GuntherMT]

that's cool of them.  wish AL would replace the ply pieces for these old kits.  stuff just falls apart in your hands.

 

If you look back near the beginning of this log, I had a mis-cut bulkhead.  I submitted an inquiry through the MS customer service form/link thing on a Sunday night.  The following day (Monday) they responded and said they would replace it.  The following Monday I received a brand new bulkhead sheet (not just the bad bulkhead). 

 

---------

 

So I figured out why the spirketing plank break looked weird/wrong where my glue repair failed.  When I was measuring a new one, by laying the old broken parts on it, I came up way short, so I started looking around, and realized that the first plank didn't break into 3 parts, it broke into 4 parts and the last piece was shot across the room.  In any case, I cut out a new piece and it's soaking now.  I probably should have cut the scuppers before the wetting bending, but I sort of forgot, so I'll do it tomorrow night.

[Mahuna]

Hi Brian:

 

If I can help you by milling some wood let me know.  See you tomorrow.

 

Frank

[GuntherMT]

Thanks Frank - I'll chat with you tomorrow, I may come by after you get back from vacation and take you up on that for getting the cherry planks to size for the aft deck. 

[themadchemist]

I envy those of you that have local clubs. Such a great resource. For both help and friendship.

 

I would have attempted gluing the small piece, but then I'm a hammer head like that. Pieces like that seem to get found by the vacuum around here though and I think OH NO that was my _____, clinking up the vacuums tube.

Oh, the joys of lost parts  

Sometimes it takes longer to find them then to just build another. When I was making mini-shackles and pins I lost more then I ended up with, but that was more to poor hole drilling. There's more then one way of losing a part.

 

Sometimes I think its natures way of saying practice some more.

[GuntherMT]

I envy those of you that have local clubs. Such a great resource. For both help and friendship.

 

 

The club just started and at the moment it's 6 of us.  I'm the young whippersnapper of the group and the only one with a real job, the rest are all slackers without any visible means of support. 

 

If I had found all four pieces of the plank when I first tried to glue it then it might have come out ok, but after I had already glued the wrong pieces together and broke them again, I didn't try to fit in that 'lost' piece when I found it since I'd sanded the bad glue section to make it smooth and in the process had made it quite a bit thinner than it started out.  Another round of gluing and sanding would have just been too much I think, so I tossed it at that point and made a new piece.  I fitted it last night actually, and it came out very good, possibly even better than the first one, and I managed to do it without breaking it, so that's a plus!

 

I'm heading to a model show today (which is where I expect to see Frank).  This will be the first model show I've ever been to, and I think I'm going to stop by the office and grab the Carmen and enter the show just to see how that entire process works (it only costs $4 to enter a model, so hey, why not), and what sort of things the judges look for and comment on, etc.  I figure it will be a learning experience.  As a bonus the show is held inside the CAF museum hanger, so I'll get to see some cool warbirds at the same time!

[GuntherMT]

So today was a pretty good day.  The model show was fantastic.  So much amazing skill on display, and the venue was just as good, with some awesome warbirds on display.  I took 470+ photo's.

 

I got a very nice surprise at the end of the day.

 

 

To be fair, there wasn't much competition for out of the box, but it made me happy anyway.

[Mahuna]

This was the first time I had seen the Carmen and was very impressed, especially considering this was Brian's first wooden ship and was built in such a short time.  Bravo!

 

Frank

[aliluke]

Congratulations Brian. That'll be good fuel for your enthusiasm!

[Grimber]

Cool Congrats!  With plastic kits I thought it was more of a challenge with out 'of the box' entries because you couldn't rely on heavy modifications and extras to win the day but overall basic modeling skill.

[GuntherMT]

Thanks everyone.  I created a Flickr album of all the ships that were entered into the contest, and you can look at them if you are interested here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/128316399@N05/sets/72157649024073426/

 

All of these are plastic (except for the Carmen).  The other sailing ship was made by someone who actually reads this forum, although I don't remember his handle here as I'm terrible with names.  His ship took 2nd place in the non-out of box ships.  The little tiny ship took first place, which befuddles me.

[lamarvalley]

That's a fine looking ship Brian. Congrats!

[GuntherMT]

Thanks all.  Was a pretty good weekend, even though I had to work about 9 hours today on a Sunday.

 

I finished the replacement spirketing plank, and it came out pretty good, and I think I got the scupper shaping even better on this one, so all's well that ends well.

 

I got sidetracked (shocking, I know) and played with the holly planking sample again.  I drilled out one of the lines of tree nail locations to .031" and made some bamboo tree nails and placed them.

 

I'm glad I tried this, but they stand out way too much, so I won't be using them on this deck.  For a darker deck, like boxwood, these might work ok, but I'm not sure I like the dark 'spots' they seem to have, so I'll try using some regular wood of some kind next.

 

Next up was gun port sills.  When I got to the point of doing this, I realized that at some point in the build I've managed to screw up, probably way back at the deck fairing, as the spirketing plank is not at an even height along all the gunports.  In one case it's very far off and I'm not really sure what I'm going to do about it.  The starboard side wasn't nearly as bad as the port, so I started on the sills there.  I decided that I could use the sills themselves to 'fix' the problem with the spirketing plank not matching up to the gunports correctly, by installing the sills to the outside of the outer planking instead of just installing them between the outer planks and the spirketing plank like you are supposed to.

I began by taking a 1/8" x 3/32" piece of basswood and cutting it to the proper width for each gunport, and then using small files, shaping the piece into an "L" shape to fit into the gap between the two layers of planking while also extending outside of the outer layer of planking.

 

Once placed, the sill is both too high, extending above the spirketing plank, and too wide, extending outside of the outer plank layer.

 

I then filed/sanded the outside down to match the outside planking layer, so that it's the right width, but still too high.

 

Then, I filed the sill down to match the top of the spirketing plank, leaving it fit to the port, and making the top of the spirketing plank even with the outside planking.

 

Did this for all 4 ports on the starboard side.

 

As none of the ports on the starboard side are terribly out of alignment with the top of the spirketing plank, this worked out quite well, but the port side is worse, so I'm going to have to think about what is going to happen on that side to even things out.  One port in particular is low (or the plank is high) by 1/2 the height of the spirketing plank (so about 1/16").  I may be able to lower the spirketing plank a little bit by sanding it down to take up part of this discrepancy, and sort of blend it in well enough that it won't be noticed later.

 

[aliluke]

Good stuff Brian. It brings back memories. I wouldn't die in a ditch over the issues you describe. They can be fixed later if they still exist at all. My advice is to carry on and see whether it becomes an issue  - sounds like bad advice but sometimes you get trapped in a circle of fixing things that aren't a problem after all.

 

Your AVS is looking really good!