Chuck Seiler

Good luck Dick.  I will drop in from time to time and take a look see.  You and Louis da Fly keep drawing me back here. 

Good luck Dick.  I will drop in from time to time and take a look see.  You and Louis da Fly keep drawing me back here. 

Dave,
 
    A lesson in and of itself.  You will find many discussions here regarding glues.  IMHO superglue has its place but wood glue is best.  Others disagree.  Not sure ANYBODY likes foaming gorilla glue.

White glue, yellow glue, epoxy, CA
They all have their place when used in the correct application.  But never Gorilla Glue.
 
At least for me.

Dave,
 
    A lesson in and of itself.  You will find many discussions here regarding glues.  IMHO superglue has its place but wood glue is best.  Others disagree.  Not sure ANYBODY likes foaming gorilla glue.

Hi Dave!  Welcome aboard. 
 
    Before getting philosophical, a suggestion.  You mentioned "Careful cutting with an exacto blade separated the three keel pieces. ".  If the parts were glued with wood glue these can easily be separated by soaking the joints in rubbing alcohol (cotton balls or Q tips work for me) for a bit, then separating with  the exacto.
 
    Drinking from a firehose, indeed.  A big newbie problem is coming aboard wanting to build a scratch built, fully framed HMS VICTORY or USS CONSTITUTION.   They are quickly overwhelmed.  It looks like you have chosen the more reasonable path of starting small and learning the 'trade'.  I have found that even experienced wood workers learn new things when dealing with bendy-curvey hulls and compound curved planking. 
 
    Read build logs of ships you are working on and ones you may work on...and ones that interest you.  I have found valuable info from logs having nothing to do with the model I am working on.  Use the archives and ask questions.  That 'stupid question' you might be afraid to ask...we probably all asked it at some point.  You don't learn if you don't ask.
 
    Don't be afraid to pull apart things that are not right.  Errors compound.  Wood is forgiving and easy to come by.
 
    Have fun!!  There will be times of frustration when things don't work out (at least for me there were) but think it through and it will work out (usually). 
 
    And remember, you can never have too many clamps.
 

Good luck Dick.  I will drop in from time to time and take a look see.  You and Louis da Fly keep drawing me back here. 

Hi Dave!  Welcome aboard. 
 
    Before getting philosophical, a suggestion.  You mentioned "Careful cutting with an exacto blade separated the three keel pieces. ".  If the parts were glued with wood glue these can easily be separated by soaking the joints in rubbing alcohol (cotton balls or Q tips work for me) for a bit, then separating with  the exacto.
 
    Drinking from a firehose, indeed.  A big newbie problem is coming aboard wanting to build a scratch built, fully framed HMS VICTORY or USS CONSTITUTION.   They are quickly overwhelmed.  It looks like you have chosen the more reasonable path of starting small and learning the 'trade'.  I have found that even experienced wood workers learn new things when dealing with bendy-curvey hulls and compound curved planking. 
 
    Read build logs of ships you are working on and ones you may work on...and ones that interest you.  I have found valuable info from logs having nothing to do with the model I am working on.  Use the archives and ask questions.  That 'stupid question' you might be afraid to ask...we probably all asked it at some point.  You don't learn if you don't ask.
 
    Don't be afraid to pull apart things that are not right.  Errors compound.  Wood is forgiving and easy to come by.
 
    Have fun!!  There will be times of frustration when things don't work out (at least for me there were) but think it through and it will work out (usually). 
 
    And remember, you can never have too many clamps.
 

Perhaps the most important event to shape the Middle Bronze Age was the demise of the so-called minoan civilization of Crete. Minoan is a term pulled from the rather creative brain of Sir Arthur Evans, the excavator and popularizer of the Palace of Knossos which he, on the basis of no evidence, called the Palace of Minos. The people he named the minoans were an expert sea people who were known to have traded extensively, especially with Egypt (who record the cretans as the keftiu). The demise of the minoan palace-based civilisation is poorly understood and probably was not sudden. The eruption of the volcanic island of Thera in about 1600 bce may have played a part in this. Certainly, the palaces of Crete were not destroyed by a monster tsunami, as is popularly depicted, but it may have destroyed the minoan war fleet and left the palace-based civilization open to opportunistic takeover by their erstwhile trading friends the mycenaeans. The Late Bronze Age (Late Helladic when applied to Greece) is regarded as that period between the fall of the minoans (1600 bce) and the catastrophic collapse of the Bronze Age civilizations in the early 12th century bce. 
 
 
The mycenaeans, also known as achaeans (and likely corresponding to the ahhiyawa of the Hittite records), traded extensively throughout the Aegean Sea and the Levant. They were also likely involved in piracy and freebooting including the famous siege of Troy which may have occurred in the Late Bronze Age and was later celebrated in oral performance by whoever Homer was (or were). In any case, the mycenaeans were based in the Peloponnese and what later became Greece during the Iron Age. By fair means or foul, they became the heirs to the palace civilization of Crete and together with the syro-canaanites of the Levant took over the minoan trade networks. The mycenaeans were known as deep-sea traders but they also were more war-like.  It is likely to the mycenaeans that the next revolution in sea-warfare is owed, namely the large, rowed war-galley which became the raiding longship of the age. This is not to say that the mycenaeans invented the concept but they certainly popularized it and brought it to a level of prominence and sophistication which led to its evolution into what became the most feared weapon of war of the Age of Bronze. These in turn were to further evolve during the Iron Age into the battleships of the Geometric and later Attic periods of Greece, the biremes and triremes.
 
 
It is my intention to build as convincing a reconstruction model of a Late Helladic war-galley as I can with the very limited and confusing contemporary evidence available from paintings on pottery, graffiti, carvings on seals and small clay or lead ship models which have survived the ages.
It is not my intention to use other reconstructions or modern artistic representations of these vessels but to sail unescorted into uncharted waters.
I will, of course, be greatly guided by the archaeologists and historians whose knowledge of the period is vast but all the while recognizing the controversies which abound in their literature.
 
Where possible I will try to use construction methods which were known to be extant at the period we are discussing. I may come up with the occasional idea of my own When I carried out my “reconstruction” of the mediaeval hulc vessel, I found that the method of construction greatly influenced the final shape of the hull and it is likely that the same will occur with this build.
I have no academic axe to grind and really it is immaterial to me whether this model meets with academic approval. I claim all my mistakes as my own but welcome them being pointed out.
 
 
No wrecks of any of these war-galleys or similar vessels from the period have survived. The only wrecks of relevance are a couple of trading vessels such as the Uluburun ship found off the coast of Turkey which give some clues to keel and plank configuration. But all the rest relies on the surviving imagery on fragments of pottery and crude models.
I hope you will bear with me as I blunder through this putative reconstruction and, of course, I would like to encourage any MSW members to contribute. There is a vast body of knowledge in MSW which I hope will protect me from the more egregious errors. So, please help me if you can.
 
 
 
Dick

Chuck, I wish that Constitution keel had been glued with simple wood glue. It was more than likely done with foaming gorilla glue, which expanded the joints and caused huge gaps. But, those gaps made it easy to slip a blade in without hitting wood. Then I took a sharp chisel and carefully pared away the remaining foamed glue. But you’re definitely right about it not being the first build. I’ll be going way more modest than that and then working up to it. 
 
thanks all for the welcome. Been spending a whole lot of time reading all the articles in the library. 

Hi Dave!  Welcome aboard. 
 
    Before getting philosophical, a suggestion.  You mentioned "Careful cutting with an exacto blade separated the three keel pieces. ".  If the parts were glued with wood glue these can easily be separated by soaking the joints in rubbing alcohol (cotton balls or Q tips work for me) for a bit, then separating with  the exacto.
 
    Drinking from a firehose, indeed.  A big newbie problem is coming aboard wanting to build a scratch built, fully framed HMS VICTORY or USS CONSTITUTION.   They are quickly overwhelmed.  It looks like you have chosen the more reasonable path of starting small and learning the 'trade'.  I have found that even experienced wood workers learn new things when dealing with bendy-curvey hulls and compound curved planking. 
 
    Read build logs of ships you are working on and ones you may work on...and ones that interest you.  I have found valuable info from logs having nothing to do with the model I am working on.  Use the archives and ask questions.  That 'stupid question' you might be afraid to ask...we probably all asked it at some point.  You don't learn if you don't ask.
 
    Don't be afraid to pull apart things that are not right.  Errors compound.  Wood is forgiving and easy to come by.
 
    Have fun!!  There will be times of frustration when things don't work out (at least for me there were) but think it through and it will work out (usually). 
 
    And remember, you can never have too many clamps.
 

Hi Dave!  Welcome aboard. 
 
    Before getting philosophical, a suggestion.  You mentioned "Careful cutting with an exacto blade separated the three keel pieces. ".  If the parts were glued with wood glue these can easily be separated by soaking the joints in rubbing alcohol (cotton balls or Q tips work for me) for a bit, then separating with  the exacto.
 
    Drinking from a firehose, indeed.  A big newbie problem is coming aboard wanting to build a scratch built, fully framed HMS VICTORY or USS CONSTITUTION.   They are quickly overwhelmed.  It looks like you have chosen the more reasonable path of starting small and learning the 'trade'.  I have found that even experienced wood workers learn new things when dealing with bendy-curvey hulls and compound curved planking. 
 
    Read build logs of ships you are working on and ones you may work on...and ones that interest you.  I have found valuable info from logs having nothing to do with the model I am working on.  Use the archives and ask questions.  That 'stupid question' you might be afraid to ask...we probably all asked it at some point.  You don't learn if you don't ask.
 
    Don't be afraid to pull apart things that are not right.  Errors compound.  Wood is forgiving and easy to come by.
 
    Have fun!!  There will be times of frustration when things don't work out (at least for me there were) but think it through and it will work out (usually). 
 
    And remember, you can never have too many clamps.
 

Hi Dave!  Welcome aboard. 
 
    Before getting philosophical, a suggestion.  You mentioned "Careful cutting with an exacto blade separated the three keel pieces. ".  If the parts were glued with wood glue these can easily be separated by soaking the joints in rubbing alcohol (cotton balls or Q tips work for me) for a bit, then separating with  the exacto.
 
    Drinking from a firehose, indeed.  A big newbie problem is coming aboard wanting to build a scratch built, fully framed HMS VICTORY or USS CONSTITUTION.   They are quickly overwhelmed.  It looks like you have chosen the more reasonable path of starting small and learning the 'trade'.  I have found that even experienced wood workers learn new things when dealing with bendy-curvey hulls and compound curved planking. 
 
    Read build logs of ships you are working on and ones you may work on...and ones that interest you.  I have found valuable info from logs having nothing to do with the model I am working on.  Use the archives and ask questions.  That 'stupid question' you might be afraid to ask...we probably all asked it at some point.  You don't learn if you don't ask.
 
    Don't be afraid to pull apart things that are not right.  Errors compound.  Wood is forgiving and easy to come by.
 
    Have fun!!  There will be times of frustration when things don't work out (at least for me there were) but think it through and it will work out (usually). 
 
    And remember, you can never have too many clamps.
 

I love the 'picnic tables' but I am not sure how useful they would be on a ship in heavy seas.  Been there.  Done that with bolted down tables.  I guess those pirates are a hardier breed than I. 

Keep up the great work.

I'll bet I'm not alone in my modeling process.  If I build something and the joints look magnificent, I'll leave it as natural wood.  If what I've built needs filler or is sub-par, it gets painted in order to hide my sins. 😊
 
Alan

I love the 'picnic tables' but I am not sure how useful they would be on a ship in heavy seas.  Been there.  Done that with bolted down tables.  I guess those pirates are a hardier breed than I. 

Keep up the great work.

I love the 'picnic tables' but I am not sure how useful they would be on a ship in heavy seas.  Been there.  Done that with bolted down tables.  I guess those pirates are a hardier breed than I. 

Keep up the great work.

second attempt. Getting closer. The center window needs redoing, and some other tweeking. It occurs to me that putting in the lights first (mica in this case) might make it easier. These won't be up to Greg Herbert's standards, but the best I can do:

Oh and I almost forgot.  Somebody asked about the length of the model.  The hull will be 32” long.  Fully rigged the model will be 54 to 55” long.  
 
its about identical to the Vanguard Indy model coming out.
 
chuck 

Chuck,
 
    What is the estimated size of this beastie?

The start of my build log...always a very exciting moment for a model builder!!
 
I am assuming most of you are somewhat familiar with the Ketch Rigged English Sloop Speedwell - 1752.   David Antscherl and Greg Herbert have produced a wonderful series of books for model builders on how to build a great model of her.   Not only can you build one as a POF model,  but as a POB and lift model as well.
 
Why would I choose this as my subject.  Those of you that know me,  I have always selected a subject that was unique at the time.  Never been done!!!  The Syren, The Winnie, The Cheerful etc.  I chose this subject for several reasons actually, knowing full well that this would become a commercial laser cut kit like my other Syren projects.
 
First- I never really wanted to build a POF model.  I prefer the look of a fully planked hull myself.  But the craftsman side of me won out as I was looking for a challenge beyond just another POB project.  I can build those and sometimes it feels like I am just going through the formulaic motions with each of them.   This would certainly be a design and engineering challenge as much as a builder challenge.
 


Second-  I am always increasingly frustrated and disappointed to regularly see pirated kits come out almost monthly as of late.  Mostly all the rage are those POF kits from China. 
 
A coincidence??  That almost all of them released are also subjects of Ancre, Seawatch, or Anatomy of the Ship Books.  I think not.
 
You may have noticed the latest pirated kit produced from one of David Antscherl's designs, the Hayling Hoy is now making its rounds.  None of the parts fit as is typical and the instructions render this kit almost unbuildable....again very typical.  Just check out the build logs of pirated Hayling kit from China on other forums.  Its a complete disaster and a waste of money.  Literally unbuildable but they are still selling them to unsuspecting builders.
 
So I reached out to David and Greg and asked them if I could develop the Speedwell before a really bad pirated version is released (and one is actually on the way-surprised?)  They agreed and are as excited as I am about it.  I just dont want to see a crappy unbuildable version of Speedwell being sold to builders.   Hopefully they will wait until this one is released.  Maybe I should do one of Hayling as well. LOL.
 
My goal...to design a kit based on the books where the parts actually do fit.   One that would encourage POF building for folks who want to give it a try.   To also write a set of English instructions that are in depth and easy to understand.  In short, to make a legitimate kit of from a Seawatch book under license and permission from the author with the authors help and guidance.  Will this stop folks from building the knock-off version when it comes out.....probably not.  But at least you will now have a choice.  The pirated version of Speedwell is currently almost ready and being done by the same company who pirated Hayling.   Coincidence again??  I think not.
 
Also and I dont mean to digress....but a pirated version of yet another Seawatch book....Ed Tosti's Naiad Frigate is also set for release very soon as well.   Again a coincidence...I think Not.    Why dont you ever see a subject from these guys that wasnt first a Seawatch Book or Ancre book?   Honest inquiring minds want to know.
 
Anyway
 
There will be differences between my Speedwell of course.  I will be modifying it for simplicity so  you dont have to be a master builder with every expensive tool in shop.   The design concept for this POF model will be unique and allow a novice and intermediate builder to tackle it.   It will also be at 3/8" scale which should also make it much easier to build.  
 
Here is the preliminary framing plan which will show just how different it will be.
 

It will be planked from the wales upward so there is no reason to over complicate the project with bent frames....If you compared this to David's plan it is completely different.  BUT make no mistake.   Yes the folks who pirate these POF projects will claim its different and therefore original. 
 
BUT make no mistake.  This is a 100% copy of Davids work.   All of this is directly lifted from his plans and only modified to make production and building a bit easier.   But it is a copy...literally traced.  But the difference here is I give full credit to David and will be paying for the privilege to use his knowledge and expertise and hard work and years of research on this subject.  
 
I do hope you will swing over a chair and watch this new Speedwell project come to life.  A huge thank you to David and to Greg who will no doubt think I am pain in biscuit by the time this is completed.
 
speedwellsheetone.pdf
 
speedwellsheettwo.pdf
 
speedwellsheetthree.pdf
 
SpeedChapOneMono.pdf

SpeedChapTwoMono.pdf
 
 
 

For the future I suggest you do a personal build log.  I have always done this so I can remember the paints and glues used and where used.  If I mix a color I record the paints used and the ratio of each so in case of needing a repair I can duplicate the color.  Woods and other materials and where they were used is also a good idea to record.  Upon completion of a model all the information is saved in a note book for later use.
 
Of course if you are doing a build log to share here you can everything recorded here.
 
 

Never Fear, Wunder Hund is here!  I'll take Charlie Weaver to block.

Oh maaaaaaaaaan!  I was hoping to paint the 1960's cartoon character on the sail....oh wait, that was Under Dog.
😛