trippwj

Ah, Sabine and Santee, a very cool subject. I’ve always been interested in those two frigates as they represent the last of the line of heavy frigates dating back to the original six (though Congress was the last design). They were both lengthened 15 feet from the basic Brandywine design, though interestingly they weren’t lengthened at the waist like a lot of conversions. Instead they chopped the bow off and built a new lengthened, finer one to clean up the ship’s entry. On Santee they also rebuilt the stern; her stern and stemposts were nearly vertical as opposed to the raked lines of every other ship in that design evolution. Sabine retained the rake of the bow and stern most similar to St Lawrence. Santee’s mast positions were also changed, including moving the main and foremasts forward.
 
The ships had the standard round sterns of the Brandywine class, I doubt they had raised sections on the bow and stern or raised gun platforms either. Here is a bigger version of Charlie's picture of Sabine, where you can clearly see her opened foreward pivot ports, albeit much later in her career.
http://i.imgur.com/Ml1rm9A.jpg
 
They most likely had the standard pivot arrangement shared with Constellation, Macedonian, Cumberland, the steamers, etc. Here are diagrams from the Naval Ordnance Manual of the time.
http://i.imgur.com/zzGZy0d.jpg http://i.imgur.com/pFQF1Wv.jpg
 
This is the pivot setup for a bow 8” (150-pdr) Parrott on a gunboat to give an idea of the way they were done.
http://i.imgur.com/7J9d7wm.jpg
 
That deckhouse sounds really cool. Looking forward to seeing more information there.  You can see Santee’s pretty clearly in this pic dating from her time at the Naval Academy. It extends from the mainmast forward to encompass the galley smokestack. Here’s also a picture of Constellation’s deckhouse from after 1900 when she was working the same job.
http://i.imgur.com/xW5h8zP.jpg http://i.imgur.com/n3RaPXN.jpg
 
Speaking of the flying bridge, this is the picture that was discussed earlier.
http://i.imgur.com/n3RaPXN.jpg
 
Finally, here’s a nice, random image of Sabine from 1864 deployed against the CSN.
http://i.imgur.com/tHqCNVU.jpg
 
 
I've been wanting to draw Sabine and Santee, since the plans Chapelle had just cover the Santee. I want to replicate Sabine's raked bow and stern, plus the ships lack quarter galleries in the plans. That will have to wait though, I'm fiddling with the John Adams, plus working on a profile drawing for a future post on USS Macedonian (II) in her frigate guise, a "what if" with the sloop Constellation finished as a frigate, and postulating a 36-gun frigate counterpart to the Java-class (with Macedonian the equivalent to Brandywine and Constellation to Santee).
 

Bummer, dude - but if you aren't satisfied, then a re-do is the way to go!  I thought things were already looking good, so can only imagine the next result!

Nice start on the planking - did you leave any planks for other builders in the Netherlands?????

Thank you for the support !!!!
 
I just received an E-mail that my rope server is on the way to this little country.
Quick service !!!!!
So thanks for that !!!!!!
When I also have my rope I can go further on the journey   
 
@ Wayne,
 
Between looking at a picture and seeing it in real time is a big difference !!!
But as everyone is saying.....when it is giving you bad feelings with what you have done....re-do it !!!!!!
And with this one I'll be re-doing things all the time 
 
@ Ulises,
 
I don't know if it is courage or stupidity   
(the sense of satisfaction you will get will be enormous!!!   )
I love this line !!!!!!!!!!      
 
@ Jason,
 
The mizzen mast and a part of the main mast have there ratlines.......
But not at my usual standard so now I get another change........
 
@ George,
 
Just what I was saying to Wayne.....there is a difference.
Also when I make a picture., I can play with it.
It can be looking better then how it really is......
 
 
@ Christian,
 
Thanks !!!!!!!!
 
Sjors

Bummer, dude - but if you aren't satisfied, then a re-do is the way to go!  I thought things were already looking good, so can only imagine the next result!

Bummer, dude - but if you aren't satisfied, then a re-do is the way to go!  I thought things were already looking good, so can only imagine the next result!

Bummer, dude - but if you aren't satisfied, then a re-do is the way to go!  I thought things were already looking good, so can only imagine the next result!

Bummer, dude - but if you aren't satisfied, then a re-do is the way to go!  I thought things were already looking good, so can only imagine the next result!

An update who is not a update.......
 
I have to take all the shrouds down and make them again....
Why ?
Because there are to many mistakes on them.
I served the wrong one ( only one I have served because my rope server is broken )
That's why I also not served the stay's.....
The snake is not what I want....it looks clumsy.
The rope that I used for the shrouds  get there are snap strands ( I use google translation for that snap strands....I hope it is correct )
So I removed all of it and will do it again.
Ordered rope at Morope and ordered a new rope server by the Syren company.....
When there is an update again I will show you .
For now....have a nice day and I will be working again !
 
Sjors

Finally!! finished....... I posted a small video for now, I have to get some more pvc pipe for my photo backdrop. This model is a lot bigger than my last one ,so I need to extend the backdrop ...then I'll take some still shots and post them, Excuse the shakes!! Thanks for look'n in.
 
Frank
 
            

I am a non-recovering bibliophile...according to Wikipedia,
 
The classic bibliophile is one who loves to read, admire and collect books, often amassing a large and specialized collection. Bibliophiles do not necessarily want to possess the books they love; an alternative would be to admire them in old libraries. However, the bibliophile is usually an avid book collector.
 
Yep - that's me!  Actually, it is apparently contagious.  Between my long suffering Admiral in Chief who has upwards of 200 cookbooks and our other assorted collection, we have conservatively 1,500 volumes on a wide array of topics from History to Philosophy to our specialized Terrorism collection (work related, of course) and now nautical themed.  The attached document is a listing of the print, PDF and a few on-line documents that are a part of the collection.  Feel free to offer suggestions on books I should consider adding to my collection, and Happy Modeling!
 
Wayne

Neither should a ship rely on one small anchor, nor should life rest on a single hope.
Epictetus
Waynes Nautical Resource List ver 2 rev 11Feb13 for MSW.pdf

Continuing with Topical selections, here is an Assortment of Resources on the Original American
Frigates.
 
First Frigates Resources 13Mar2016.pdf
 
 

Continuing with Topical selections, here is an Assortment of Resources on the Original American
Frigates.
 
First Frigates Resources 13Mar2016.pdf
 
 

Thought I would add a brief listing of resources on Dutch shipbuilding.  Far from comprehensive, but a start.
 
Dutch Resources 13Mar2016.pdf
 
Additional suggestions welcome - enjoy!!!

Finally got a second to try and catch up on some logs - looks nice, Denis!

As all the cool kids know, the USS Wasp (II), built in Newburyport, MA, in 1813, vanished at sea with 173 souls some time in late 1814 or early 1815, and was last seen "officially" of the Azores on September 22, 1814, when she sent in her prize schooner, the Atalanta, formerly the Privateer Baltimore Clipper Siro of Baltimore. Prior to that she enjoyed a very successful cruise in British home waters, taking a dozen merchantmen and winning battles against two English Sloops of War, HMS Reindeer and HMS Avon, becoming the only American ship of war to win two battles while out on a single cruise under the same captain, in this case Johnston Blakeley. Wasp was one of only four ships, along with Constitution, Constellation and Hornet, to defeat two enemies of comparable force. Some long-winded and tedious fellow wrote a book about the Wasp and her captain a few years back, so I'll refer any interested parties to it for further particulars ...
 
There were many accounts of the Wasp's activities after the capture of the Atalanta in the Royal Navy records, and many more in the papers of the day, which I shall try to list here in chronological order. The British vessels referred to here were all cruising the same waters in which the Wasp had last been seen. These waters were rich with valuable English merchantmen and homeward bound Indiamen, the prime hunting ground for an energetic American sloop of war to stalk.
 
Somebody was out there in a ship/corvette/small frigate scaring the heck out of the maritime community. There were also many privateers in those seas, but they were only very rarely ship rigged, they being primarily swift brigs and topsail schooners. 
 
First, some official RN logbook entries and official letters.
 
 
 
Nov. 3, 1814: Log of Sloop of War HMS Reynard:
 
Position at Noon 41.58 N., 14.48 W, Virgo NE 194 miles. 1300. Saw a sloop of War to leeward, made a private signal to her (She having English Ensign and Pennant flying), which she made a mistake in answering, made all sail from her, supposing her to be an American Sloop of war" 16:00 "Stranger out of sight."
 
Was this the Wasp? Reynard was only a 12-gun sloop, armed with 18-pounder carronades, so she probably was in the right by fleeing. USS Peacock, the only other US sloop at sea at this time, was, at this date, off Brazil, heading north to NY.
 
Nov. 4, 1814: Log of HMS Reynard:  
 
Position at noon, 43.32 N, 15.28W Cape Finisterre 230 milles. "1415 saw a strange sail ... 1600 saw a ship of war on the lee quarter and a schooner which was in distress." Oddly, no further mention.
 
January 2, 1815: Log of Elizabeth, 74 guns, flagship of the Gibraltar station, Admiral Fleming:
 
"Letter from the captain of the [32-gun 12-pounder Frigate] Aquilion, dated 16 December, that it was his intentions to put to sea from the Tagus the following day ... A Letter from the Captain of the Jasper, that on the 16th December. off Cape St. Vincent, that he was chased by an enemy's ship, that after a variety of manuveres [sic] he succeeded in getting clear of her, with a transport and merchant vessel under his protection, and that he arrived in the Tagus on the 26th of that month, that he did not conceive it to be prudent to bring her into action having with him a vessel laden with naval stores, but that he was fully resolved to go to the bottom rather than to have struck his colors. " No log entry describes this event on that date. Twice, one month apart, Reynard runs into an American sloop of war, probably the same one, and twice he runs away?
 
January 3, 1813: Log of Elizabeth:
 
"Letter received from the captain of the Reynard, that he arrived in the Tagus on the 14th of December and that he had ...  on the 2nd of Nov., in Lat 41.58, Long 14.28, he had fallen in with a corvette, which he thinks was an American, that being within 4 miles of her, he perceived that she carried 20 guns, that point, from the inferior force of the Reynard, he did not feel himself justified in bringing her into action, which she did not seek. From the bad state of her copper, I believe she must be hove down after the next cruise, that at the moment her has completed her provisions, he will resume his station."
 
(Note that Wasp had 22 guns and eleven broadside ports, but English sloops of the Hermes/Myrmidon class carried only 20 guns, even though they also had eleven ports.)
 
January 4, 1814: Log of Elizabeth:
 
"Letter to the Admiralty that the Reynard returned to Gibraltar on the 31st December, that her Captain having been chased off Cape Finisterre by a small frigate of the enemy whose attention being drawn to other objects, he was enabled to escape, [and] that this sloop has lost a great part of her copper and is otherwise in a leaky state." The captain of the Reynard was named Sinclair. It is noteworthy that the "ship of war" has grown into a frigate.
 
Another small 18-pounder, brig-rigged, sloop of war on the station, HMS Jasper, also had a run-in with this mysterious corvette. Again from the Elizabeth log on the same date:
 
"Jasper states his having been chased by a corvette on his passage to Lisbon off Cape St. Vincent, and that he appears to have evinced considerable ability in saving h is convoy." For some reason, the chase was not recorded either in the Jasper's log-book.
 
January 8, 1815: Log of the Frigate HMS Garland:
 
"20:20 hrs, 34.44 N, 15. 28 W Joined convoy and gained information that an American Frigate was a few leagues to the NE." Note France was at peace since the previous summer so the marauding frigate could not have been french. The Constitution, the only American frigate at sea, was not yet in these waters.
 
January 23, 1815, log of Frigate HMS Aquilion:
 
"08:30 38.47N 12.17 W. A strange ship of war bearing down upon us. Made the private signal, cleared for action, hauled down the private signal unanswered, the stranger having hauled to windward. Observed the stranger to be an enemy corvette." Nothing further is mentioned in the log, until the following day, they discovered a vessel on fire burned to the waterline. Her captain was Thomas Burton. Privateers rarely burned prizes, but navy ships commonly did.
 
March 1, 1815: Log of HM Ship Meander, in the Tagus: "... several other privateers  have made their appearance occasionally on this coast, but from information being received from neutral vessels, the descriptions differs, accept with respect to the American of twenty guns, ship rigged, which was chased by the Aquilion, and which I have reason to believe was the same which lately pursued the Jasper, this vessel with another ship of the same description [i.e, which twice chased the Reynard!] , has generally been taken for the Wasp.  [signed] Admiral Fleming."
 
Next I shall list some contemporary newspaper accounts.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Hi Wayne,
 
Good to know the yard is all shipshape and that your making good use of it mate.
 
E.C.B is looking sharp and the lines are forming nicely.
 
Be Good
 
mobbsie

Well, now, I guess it's time for some updating!
 
The workshop is now re-floored and operating.  The ECB is on the table and have added the garboard strake and the next strake above.  Moving along very slowly, but progress is occurring!
 
Since the weather was so nice, I took her down to the shore for some pictures in her "natural habitat".
 

 
Starboard side - this is the side that will be partly planked (the port side will be fully planked). 
 

 
Bow view
 

 

 
Stern view
 

 
View from above.
 

I am kinda dreading the fairing process as I know I have some wacked out frames. We are moving to our new house at the end of the month and I'll have to pack up the shipyard here soon. Not to worry I have grand plans for the shipyard at the new place.

Mystery unraveled. The MS13004 was a ME product manufactured entirely in the USA under license with Amati of Italy. Due to disagreements between the companies the relationship was terminated as was the production of the item.
 
The reason the Vanguard popped up on the Model Expo website not long ago is that the images and the descriptive copy were temporarily activated so that I could copy that material to move it to eBay in order to sell a Vanguard that came into my possession. 
 
Why do I have Vanguards; both ME version and even an Amati version as I write?  
 
Model Expo often times buys 2nd hand kits from ship modelers throughout the country. In fact, we sometimes buy complete collections of ship model kits. What often times happens is that aging customers, or their widows, have a closet or attic full of ship model kits they were meaning to build but ran out of time. We buy the collections and auction them on eBay one by one. The way I see it we are making sometimes rare kits available to enthusiastic modelers as well as providing needed income to sustain Model Expo. 
 
At the moment there is an original Amati Vanguard kit at auction on eBay. Click here or paste in your browser to see it http://www.ebay.com/itm/Amati-Victory-Models-HMS-Vanguard-Wood-Ship-Model-Kit-Unbuilt-em-ja-/201538434976?ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT... maybe you get it at a bargain price.  You'll find other super kits there too ... like a Sergal Sovereign and a Jotika Victory. 

Well, now, I guess it's time for some updating!
 
The workshop is now re-floored and operating.  The ECB is on the table and have added the garboard strake and the next strake above.  Moving along very slowly, but progress is occurring!
 
Since the weather was so nice, I took her down to the shore for some pictures in her "natural habitat".
 

 
Starboard side - this is the side that will be partly planked (the port side will be fully planked). 
 

 
Bow view
 

 

 
Stern view
 

 
View from above.
 

Thanks again Craig. I am thoroughly enjoying the build.
I have decided to paint and stain! I've also glued my second lodging knee. It has also occurred to me just now to make two of each. Port and starboard. Also the plans show what looks like two pieces where I think I'll just make one piece and carve a line or something to model the joint although I do plan on just planking the whole thing...
 
Dru

I've made some progress this last week or two. I've been working on the deck framing and the lodging knees. And my errors in the hull framing have become painfully obvious. I think I'll be paying for those mistakes later when I try and fair the hull before planking. The hull clearly has a bit of a twist to it. Not single lodging knee is like another, Lots of hand carving going on. Having lots of fun and been planning my eventual turn to the dark side(scratch building) or light depending on your viewpoint I suppose. Dreaming of power tools and frankly bigger pieces of wood, all these bits are hard to handle with my extra large hands.

Well, now, I guess it's time for some updating!
 
The workshop is now re-floored and operating.  The ECB is on the table and have added the garboard strake and the next strake above.  Moving along very slowly, but progress is occurring!
 
Since the weather was so nice, I took her down to the shore for some pictures in her "natural habitat".
 

 
Starboard side - this is the side that will be partly planked (the port side will be fully planked). 
 

 
Bow view
 

 

 
Stern view
 

 
View from above.
 

Just finished furbishing Mr. Rivers small cabin. You see he is leaving with a happy smile on his face :-)
 

 
XXXDAn