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Anyway nothing can be worse than Vasa´s top, with an inclination that makes it really difficult to stand ...

Yes Kevin, those are the battens. Those are needed while the top is lifted upwards as there is no other stabilization in between the planks and also after the rest on testle and cross trees to keep the package together. The radial layout is also makes sense as the planking underneath is overlapping so this angle is good to keep both direction of planking together. XXXDAn

Hello Kevin Do you mean the battens or the 2 stringers? The single planks were needed as for the size of the top. To hold this planking together those circular battens of the traditional pre 1802 tops were needed. In 1802 came the order to build the tops out of fir - instead of oak as previously used - and in two halves as for more easy replacement. That changed the layout of the battens and also needed the introduction of the 2 big stringers on the topside, that acted as counterpart to the crosstrees. Her in the Ulffers Seamanship of 1872 shows nicely the advantage of the new design: right side and middle the traditional top, left the new halves. Also Nares 1862 shows this feature. All the best, DAniel

If you heat up the cured resin it happens the same thing as with the classical cast resin: it gets soft. Good to bend them if they got warped by time or wrong storage, just put a minute or two into warm water - or earl grey hot as Jean Luc used to say - and put them back in shape before cooling down or use the heat to do funny tricks. That was possible after warming up my balusters 🙂 XXXDAn

Thank you all 🙂 I think it makes the difference that I am a model maker transferring my knowledge into the printing opposed to many programmers transferring their knowledge into model making. It really helps that I produced all the parts by hand first, as it gives a feeling about the needed details and also on how things have to be altered, like what detail has to be emphasized in what way to appear "real" on the model. If I do the programming strictly by the plans, it only looks half as good 🙂 The mast are not an option, even though they would need it badly, but the resin is much too brittle for that. I think the art of model making is also to know, which is the most appropriate material for a job, in this case it is by my experience a rework of the steel reinforced kit masts with redone iron hoops or a complete replacement with wooden masts. All the best, Daniel

Since I haven't had time to do any real tinkering lately, I've done some more research into the details. My usual subject is the Victory of 1803. On the left, the kit´s cathead. With all the joints and sink marks at the bottom of the cassettes, it was very difficult to get it ship shape and I also had to build in the slots for the pulley for my model. Why not do it right then? The first draft in the middle still had the dimensions of the kit part and also the cassettes were flat leveled inside, but it had the slots and a compass rose instead of the anchor symbol. It was noticeable that the beam was too narrow, which weakened the remaining material between the slots, as the large anchor had to be able to hang on it. Probably the thickness of the kit part was due to the maximum thickness of the casting, you can tell by the sink marks that even that is more than borderline ... At this point of discussion I was pointed by a german forum comrade that what I was believed to be a compass rose was most probably the Order of Garter. Having a closer look I even found some catheads showing exactly those colors, white background, red cross and blue circle, possibly in original with the lettering on it. Therefore a new version, with a square diameter to widen the slots and also the cassettes´ bottoms got a cambered surface, as it is often seen in contemporary sources. The axle of the rollers is now also recessed so that nothing can rub. Also the order was shown more prominent. Still the edges of the slots have to be rounded and the cleat to be positioned more downwards for that its bolts do not foul the slot. But now the next question to the esteemed public: Was the cleat used on english ships around 1800? I sawn them displayed in Chapman´s work and on the model of HMS Vanguard (1835) - but all of them in the frontside and not in the back of the cathead. Also how was the fixed end cat tackle attached to the cathead in 1800? By a hole and a stopper knot on the up side of the cathead? By a sling around the cathead? Or by an eyebolt on the side of the cathead? All these versions I already found displayed in the literature. XXXDAn

Since I can't physically get to my tinkering place at the moment (moving box stacking place), here are at least some further developments on some detailed topics 🙂 The cathead in Portsmouth displays a crown. So far no historical evidence of this use was to be tracked down by my knowledge. One favorite of those days, als displayed on the contemporary 1765 model of the vic was a what I believed to be a compass rose. A german forum comrade pointed it out to be the Order of the Garter, and if one looks carefully some models really show those colors on the star. So here is the new cathead with the Order of the Garter as decorative plate instead of the well known but possibly incorrect crown. The first picture shows the kit part, then the first draft and after that the optimised version: The proportions were adjusted, the star of the order was emphasized and the cassette compartments got the cambered base typical for the time. However, there are still a few small things to be done. The two-part fighting top, the masthead and the cap have also been reworked again. But as usual, every corner solved draws two new ones behind it 🙂 It remains exciting. Greetings, Daniel

"Would it it be easier to just add the evergreen pieces to the back side of the channel where it will be attached to the hull so I would not need tomake new holes for the irons? Or did you try this and found it not to be satisfactory?" Of course you can 🙂 I felt more confident to use the original pins of the boards to fix them on the hull and also as the curve towards the hull is just right. But it works both ways. "It looks in the plate 3 pictures that you added evergreen to all the channels, not just the fore channels. Is this correct? If so, how much wider did you make the main and mizzen channels, or did you make all 6 channels the same width?" Tricky question, omg, what did I do that days ... i had a look at the instructions and I do strongly believe that only the fore chains need to be enlarged. You possibly refer to page 12. This is an attempt to build the chains a bit more correct by giving them more thickness and also to place the slots more on the edge and to cover them then in the correct way with a batten. "Last question. You show adding a sheet of thin evergreen to the top and bottom of each channel. What thickness of evergreen sheet did you use for this. It appears to be pretty thin. " Its described in the assembly instruction of plate 2, one line of 1 mm x 0,4 mm Evergreen on top and three of that kind underneath.

Both the plans as build and from 1788 shoe no difference in height from the deck to the platform of the beakhead bulkhead 🙂 So Heller is good there. This platform was a later introduction in the 3rd rate+. The step in P. was introduced in 1920 when the bow was complöetely reconstructed, eliminating the round bow of 1816. Even though Heller orientated the model on the appearance of 1920-1960 they got this detail and the missing side entrance right! Oh my God they got bashed for that when I started building this kit 😉 XXXDAn

On top of it all writing are computer based letters 😉 Oh, I love the look of the low rider scene, my friend has a car like this ... 😆😆😆 XXXDAn

Thank you Morgan, one can nicely see the pair of two holes in the front that could have been used for fixing the horn/breast. What you believe to recognize as horn is in my opinion another wrecked cheek in the background, see the pictures above with the guns on the Euro-pallet. But what was the side cleat for? Keeping the breeching line clear? Keeping clear of hanging knees? XXXDan

And here a picture I was looking for: HMS Superbe 1842 with possibly double breeching line.

Completely agree 🙂 Just looked at my archive and found two pictures with marks that could come from cleats and checks: Two holes in the front of each carriage´s cheek and some change of color where a cleat could have been on the side. Make up your on mind upon this 🙂

I think something alike can be found behind the whipstaff of the Batavia.

Thank you Alan and Gary. Comparing the drawing of Rivers and the artifact of St. George the position of the bolts is quite the same. Have to look my other pictures for the traces of the cleats. Even though Rivers does not show these, any thoughts about that? Also funny that the St. George carriage appears to have shades of red and ochre. Were they overpainted once? Was there already any research about the color? And another question: What was the iron pin for? What else served the eyebolt that it is stuck in? XXXDAn

Dear Alan, also thank you for the hint for the 2 eye bolts. It is a reminiscence upon the carriages displayed in Portsmouth 😉 I had a look into my sources. First of all William Rivers Gunner of the Victory does not display these ones 🙂 Also the best hint are always the artifacts, one of the best is Thorsminde St. George, nothing to be seen too 🙂 All other contemporary plans or drawings of 1800 +/- do not show them either. Drawing of the HMS Venerable from NMM. The confusion starts after 1820+, where these eyebolts start appearing in paintings and photographs. Also the french heavy guns had these eyebolts. As seen for the sources approx. 1800 I will omit these bolts confidently on my Victory 🙂 All the best, Daniel

Hello Alan, thank you for the feedback. The preventer breech line was installed on my model at the times as Goodwin has reported on this very convincingly and that all 24 and 32 pounders should have one. Also it was installed on the ship in Portsmouth. But as quite often he lacked the sources. At least me and many others did not find a final conclusion. Here are the few hints for that topic: David Steel in 1796 "Art of rigging" states this: Sea-Gunners Vademecum von Robert Simmons, Verlag Steel and Company, 1812 But with these sources I did not find out if this was for action or bad weather. Saumarez on the Orion ordered "extra breech ropes" to be fitted before a storm in 1798. Harland also describes this use. In 1826 Johann Wilhelm David Korth shows how to link multiple guns in his book "Schiffbaukunst" John Masefields mentions the preventer ropes for action in "Sea life in Nelsons time" but this was only in 1905 ... https://archive.org/details/sealifeinnelsons00maserich/page/n61/mode/2up?view=theater page 39 Also the captain of the Little Belt reports of double breeching lines in 1811 but this was for the double shotted carronades. https://ia600404.us.archive.org/8/items/cihm_20959/cihm_20959.pdf Also in 1855 Sir Howard Douglas "A treatise of Naval Gunnery" mentions on page 415 the preventer breeching rope on the carronades of the Shannon. Also have a look at the lay of the breeching rope in the first picture, it is layed the other way possibly for more flexibility. I think this was changed ever since I took the picture - as was the messenger 🙂 My believe is that this is based upon Nares in 1862, otherwise I did find no mention of this fact yet. Does anybody has further sources upon these topics? Especially for the preventer breeching lines for the big 24 and 32 pounders in 1805. XXXDAn PS: One picture still giving me some confusion is the quarterdeck of the Venurable. Look at the double (?) breeching line on the larboard guns. These are omitted on the starboard side ...

Here are the results of some of my research. Even though the preventer breeching line - as propagated by Goodwin - is still quite doubtful to me, I tried some different ways for the tackles as shown already in the contemporary sources mentioned above. First was to determine the length the tackle has that is really needed for the full compliment of gun crew pulling on it. In my opinion very important: Give the tackles stopper knots at the backwards blocks, the carriage or the cascabel if none of the crew holds it! Otherwise the gun will run loose ... Also all trials of arranging the tackles will be useless in a minute or after the first wave. Also do look that the rope has a realistic slack in it. Often seen are tackles coming out of the unsecured block and running in a straight line into a flemish eye, no way of reproducing that in real life 😉 Here are my favorites. V1 or V2 are for "prepared for action", V3 and V4 much more for run out but secured guns. V1 tackles laid in flakes beside the gun, keeps clear the passage behind the gun V2 tackles laid in flakes behind the gun, keeps them clear the breeching line and in position for the crew to grab it. V3 tackles laid in flakes over the barrel, gun run out but secured, as seen today on Constitution V4 tackles laid in flakes over the barrel as V3, but with a seizure to keep it arranged That is the version I opted for in my display as these guns are secured but run out and it keeps clear the floor. Also already discussed how much the sponge and rammer point out the port, just see here: And action 🙂 XXXDAn

Breech(ing) line 😉 XXXDan

Here is a different approach 🙂

Longridge and Heller describe an anachronistic version, also this was shown in P. untill some years ago. There the line with the block is kept clear the hull with an iron bracket and this is only post Trafalgar if I remember well. I think the bishop version is closer to Trafalgar but it should be researched again. Perhaps Lees tells something It could be, that the block was quite near the hull, but the hanger on the yard was much longer. XXXDAn

Message for John Walker: Can you please try to contact me here in a PM? All the best, Daniel

Sorry wrong thread ...

Great work, Bill, love it! As Kevin asked for the copper color scheme: Blank as Bill´s copper it only is if polished 🙂 As for my resaerch, the greenish color just appears if copper is on the air, like in the drydock. Usually in the harbor the copper gets a brownish color. Usually with all kind of weed on top. If sailing the abrasion of the water molecules give a pinkish (!) appearance to the "delight" of the most model makers 😉 So basically on can show on the model, what happened last to the ship. Was it in harbor or was it sailing. In some test pieces I opted for a mixture of brown and pink for underneath the water, for a bright pink on the waterline and a very thin greenish erea where wind and weather meet. All the best, Daniel PS: Some more infos about copper and aging here in German, but one can use the automatic translator on the left bottom.: https://www.segelschiffsmodellbau.com/t588f643-Kupferung-im-Original.html https://www.segelschiffsmodellbau.com/t3568f804-Patina-von-Kupferteilen.html https://www.segelschiffsmodellbau.com/t3567f804-Kupferung-Darstellung-von-Naegeln-im-kleineren-Massstab.html

Not all problems with the Heller instructions are mistakes but anachronisms due to advanced research today. M24 is shown here with a kind of three-legged rope, as it was some years ago still attached to a three-legged iron structure to keep it clear the hull. It was later realised that this was introduced only much later and today shows a single Rope fixed on the hull. Same goes to the 2 eyebolts near the cutwater on the bow. Those ropes are omitted today but the bolts were still visible until the last restoration. Are they still there? Great work on the plates, looks like I was right to tempt you 🙂 XXXDAn