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dafi
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Carriage Gun Rigging
dafi replied to Dr PR's topic in Discussion for a Ship's Deck Furniture, Guns, boats and other Fittings
Here are the results of some of my research. Even though the preventer breeching line - as propagated by Goodwin - is still quite doubtful to me, I tried some different ways for the tackles as shown already in the contemporary sources mentioned above. First was to determine the length the tackle has that is really needed for the full compliment of gun crew pulling on it. In my opinion very important: Give the tackles stopper knots at the backwards blocks, the carriage or the cascabel if none of the crew holds it! Otherwise the gun will run loose ... Also all trials of arranging the tackles will be useless in a minute or after the first wave. Also do look that the rope has a realistic slack in it. Often seen are tackles coming out of the unsecured block and running in a straight line into a flemish eye, no way of reproducing that in real life 😉 Here are my favorites. V1 or V2 are for "prepared for action", V3 and V4 much more for run out but secured guns. V1 tackles laid in flakes beside the gun, keeps clear the passage behind the gun V2 tackles laid in flakes behind the gun, keeps them clear the breeching line and in position for the crew to grab it. V3 tackles laid in flakes over the barrel, gun run out but secured, as seen today on Constitution V4 tackles laid in flakes over the barrel as V3, but with a seizure to keep it arranged That is the version I opted for in my display as these guns are secured but run out and it keeps clear the floor. Also already discussed how much the sponge and rammer point out the port, just see here: And action 🙂 XXXDAn
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Breech(ing) line 😉 XXXDan
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Here is a different approach 🙂
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Longridge and Heller describe an anachronistic version, also this was shown in P. untill some years ago. There the line with the block is kept clear the hull with an iron bracket and this is only post Trafalgar if I remember well. I think the bishop version is closer to Trafalgar but it should be researched again. Perhaps Lees tells something It could be, that the block was quite near the hull, but the hanger on the yard was much longer. XXXDAn
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Message for John Walker: Can you please try to contact me here in a PM? All the best, Daniel
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Great work, Bill, love it! As Kevin asked for the copper color scheme: Blank as Bill´s copper it only is if polished 🙂 As for my resaerch, the greenish color just appears if copper is on the air, like in the drydock. Usually in the harbor the copper gets a brownish color. Usually with all kind of weed on top. If sailing the abrasion of the water molecules give a pinkish (!) appearance to the "delight" of the most model makers 😉 So basically on can show on the model, what happened last to the ship. Was it in harbor or was it sailing. In some test pieces I opted for a mixture of brown and pink for underneath the water, for a bright pink on the waterline and a very thin greenish erea where wind and weather meet. All the best, Daniel PS: Some more infos about copper and aging here in German, but one can use the automatic translator on the left bottom.: https://www.segelschiffsmodellbau.com/t588f643-Kupferung-im-Original.html https://www.segelschiffsmodellbau.com/t3568f804-Patina-von-Kupferteilen.html https://www.segelschiffsmodellbau.com/t3567f804-Kupferung-Darstellung-von-Naegeln-im-kleineren-Massstab.html
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Not all problems with the Heller instructions are mistakes but anachronisms due to advanced research today. M24 is shown here with a kind of three-legged rope, as it was some years ago still attached to a three-legged iron structure to keep it clear the hull. It was later realised that this was introduced only much later and today shows a single Rope fixed on the hull. Same goes to the 2 eyebolts near the cutwater on the bow. Those ropes are omitted today but the bolts were still visible until the last restoration. Are they still there? Great work on the plates, looks like I was right to tempt you 🙂 XXXDAn
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Hllo Bill, sorry to be absent that much, had some sad family business to take care of. The batten that finishes the copper was done in mid february 2011. Have a look, I have only restricted internet here in the Austria´s mounains. XXXDAn
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Hello Pete , sorry for the late reply. Yes the family is safe and sound even thogh my brother in law just lives 1,2 km from this infamous earth slide that went throug the international media. He was very lucky, even being that near, hiss house did not even suffer a water stain. But the area was build upon sand - quite biblical - and one one of the facilities that were hurt was a castle, standing there for centuries ... XXXDAn
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Now to be serious. I do not want to interfere into your build, but as you ask questions and when I see some realistic potential, I then will tempt you, but I will never disrespect your way of building. Just tell me to stop in a PM, be assured I will respect 🙂 XXXDAn
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I am on the go since 12 years and funnily you most possibly will overtake me at your month 3 ... Thats why I am trying to distract you 😉 XXXDAn
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If I remember well, it was about 1 roll. But as usual, no pressure 🙂 XXXDAn
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Still tempting you: As you like the blanc rigols, did you already consider to plank the bottom with real copper? With the tiffany self adhesive copper tape it is not a too big task. Stuff is quite cheap and the effect great. Measure if you need the 4,0 mm or 4,4 mm tape and try out on a piece of plastic. That you painted already is a good base, so you do not have black flashing through eventual gaps 🙂 All the best, Daniel
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Wonderful place! XXXDAn
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Great Job!!! XXXDAn
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Just discovered now, wonderful and pleasant project and a great result! All the best, Daniel PS: AND NO! I am not cutting down my one 😉
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Oh great, they are adding weathering effects to look more realistic 😉 Hy Bill, basically the lines look good. If I remember well, the Heller lines are different from one side to the other. Also the old rule said to follow the gun ports as you did, probably as for the Nelson checkers. Newer resarch also indicates, that the checker could have not been there at Trafalgar and the lines followed the wales. So the choice is yours 🙂 Just have a look that the lines look harmonically, running smooth and also that the widths correspond to each other. And I think it a good idea to fix the side galleries temporarily to better judge the situation. Great job on removing the old balusters. As for the small scars in the surface, do not forget to fill up with some putty. All the best, Daniel
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As to be indicated on Lifesay´s drawing of the stern and as also mentioned by David Steel***, the outer windows of the stern could have been be mock windows. That is what I have done. ***The Shipwright´s vade-mecum, p.180
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First rigols, then paint 🙂 🙂 🙂 Great Job you do! XXXDAn
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I like the "Art Brute" Plenty of 1 mm holes in safe distance to the edge, all around the frame, then the scalpel and then the files 🙂 For this, even I use a motordrill 😉 XXXDAn
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Do not think so 🙂 I think there is a misinterpretation that got its own life. As the culprits had a red and blue scarf there was the interpretation them to represent the marines and sailors. It appeared that the damages the culprits took - one left an arm, one a leg - were coincidenting with the major wounds of the 2 groups at the battle. And this took a life on its own ending up in the believe that were a marine and a sailor standing beside the coat of arms. But that is imho. The article publishing this picture originates from 1891, so it is not contemporary. Also the Independent revealed that since approx. 1815 both of the Culprits were on board 🙂 https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/hms-victory-royal-navy-battle-trafalgar-b1799397.html?fbclid=IwAR1tZj6hC8OtZAaXlQtRrkZbT_ohxLmznkYIvSj1t82CGkgjvAPcVjbcOUo XXXDAn
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And an easy but effective one still: open the lower door to the side galleries*** 🙂 XXXDAn ***if you dot plan to put someone there seeking privacy 😉
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Forgot to say: Rest is looking great 🙂 Do not forget the enlarging of the wales in between the fenders. XXXDAn
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To be honest, the holes for the gunport lid lanyards appear quite messy on the pictures. Did you drill them with a motor drill? Looks like the molten material enlarged some holes quite a bit. Would you perhaps consider to close them with original Heller sprue, heated up and pulled into right thickness and then stuck in and with plastic glue sealing the old holes? This would give a great base for the new holes as it is then a homogenous replacement with the hull. For the new holes use a pointed scribing iron to mark the exact place first and then drill a hole by hand using a 0,5 mm drill 🙂 If ever later a bigger hole is needed, it is not a problem to enlarge the holes with another drill - also done by hand. If it sound good, just try out on one port first, before takling all the other ones. All the best, DAniel
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