tkay11

I had no idea I was touching on actuality! Don't worry -- I realise the terrible potential of blast. At a much smaller scale, I remember the kick-back and the deafening noise just of a .303 rifle when I was in the army cadet force as a teenager at school. It put me off going near guns for the rest of my life -- let alone tamper with one of these 3 pounder beasties. Tony

I can't answer your question about the colour of the margin planks, I might suggest that if that is all the wood you have, then, as long as the difference is consistent, it might even look quite nice. As to whether they should be there, it is probably more accurate to have them. It looks as though you are on the path to shaping the margins nicely so it would be a shame to do away with the idea altogether. You then have to decide whether you joggle (indent) the planks into the margin, or nib the planks so that they do not indent the margin. There are rules to follow for both nibbing and joggling so that the ends of the planks do not come to a point. It looks as though you have not yet glued the planks to the deck, so you have plenty of flexibility left. Tony

OK, just to throw in a couple of spurious questions: 1. When the lids are closed, the guns have to be rolled back and held tight by their ropes since the muzzles could not be raised and held fast against the rail. Would there be enough room for this on a cutter of this width without interfering with the day-to-day sailing? 2. Re muzzles clearing the half-lids, I am tempted to suggest that side-hinged lids are an ingenious method of preparing for firing very rapidly, without the bother of locking the lids open. When the guns are rolled out for firing, wouldn't the muzzle length would keep the doors open if they are side opening? (The side lids would be shorter than a top lid), Though this might mean the noise of their flapping against the muzzle would irritate the crew. I suppose if the worst came to the worst and they started firing a bit too rapidly, the cannon ball leaving the gun would ensure the lids would part, albeit with a little bit of damage here and there as well as a few injuries with splinters. OK, the second question was not truly serious. I am loathe to use smileys to indicate a poor joke. But I'm interested in answers to the first question. Tony

Thanks, Druxey. I understood that and the convention. I think Franklin said something like that as well in his book. I was just musing in case there was another way of looking at it. Sorry not to have made that clear. Tony

I really appreciate Jay's excellent critical analysis, and druxey's equally thoughtful direction to the detail of the plans, along with Dirk's initial prompting to look at the lids and Kester's stimulation to look at this in more detail. Many of us come from academic, nautical, professional or analytic backgrounds, and it's great to be reminded of the care needed should we aim at historical accuracy. In addition it's great fun to have something like this for the analytic mind to chew on. However, this made me think a bit. Why was it that I went to the AOTS Alert book in order to inform the build of the Sherbourne kit? Well, the simple answer is that I was desperate for information of any kind over and above what the kit offered. Not having had any sailing experience, modelling experience, or any knowledge whatsoever of the construction of ships, it was certainly attractive to have a source that was relatively easily available which gave measurements and drawings of the construction of a vessel of the same type and roughly the same period. I had read remarks by a number of commentators that Goodwin wasn't to be relied on for everything, but I didn't mind that too much as long as I could get a hang of what it might mean to build a cutter of that period. I also went to the National Maritime Museum (a short tube ride from my house) to see how the models there would look, and I bought Franklin's 'Navy Board Ship Models' to see how the modellers at that time would approach their work. It does seem that there is and was a huge variety of approaches and the set of reasons for building a contemporary model were as wide then as they are now -- with the resulting wide set of levels of detail or accuracy that were and are provided. That said, I am left unclear as to how to approach this question of the lids. The sweep ports seem to be there in the NMM model I pictured earlier, so I am happy with leaving them as is. But should I aim to fit the Sherbourne with gun port lids? The evidence so far is mixed, with one lid being shown on one port in three sets of plans. Jay and Druxey are clear here. Kester makes the suggestion that the gun ports at the bow may have had gun port lids for the reason that this is where the waves mostly would come in. Could it be that the single port lid should have been at the bow? Kester also says that none of the paintings or photographs he has seen show lids. Similarly, the model I have shown from the NMM does not have lids, and the other cutters and brigs that are modelled nowadays (e.g. Lady Nelson) do not have gun port lids. The modellers of all these clearly did their own research. It was Chris Watton who designed the Sherbourne kit, and as we know he is a thorough researcher, it might be a good idea to ask him about this question. I would feel confident that he had reasons for leaving off the lids -- even though the answer might be that they would have been too much for a beginner's model. The final aspect that I noticed from the plans provided by Dirk was that the gun ports were cut right up to the rail. I don't know if that makes it any the easier to lean over and open any lids to lock them on to some outside ringbolt, but given that the sweep ports were open, and there is almost no difference in height over the Alert's sides where there is no rail and there are no lids shown, is there any real function for the ports, other than at the bow? As I was writing this Kester's most recent post came in. I am with him for the moment. I'll leave the lids off. Besides, I am so inexperienced it is hard enough for me to make the rest of the kit properly! Thanks for tolerating this rather rambling reply and it in no way detracts from a more thorough understanding that may or may not throw up more evidence either way! Tony

It was a great ride while it lasted. I'm sure the next will be even better. Thanks very much for an excellent log and a logical termination, or final point. Tony

Yes, it was from an original draught, but it appears to be for only one of the ports. The discussion hinged (sorry, we're talking about lids after all) on whether it was easy enough to open them and whether this was just something fanciful on the part of the draughtsman. Are there other examples of side-opening gun port lids? Thanks, Dirk, for the detailed plan. It is terrific to see that much detail. In particular it is interesting to note the gun ports are cut right up to the rail. Tony

Thanks, Druxey. Valuable info. In relation to the side-opening gun port lids, we had a discussion a while back about the feasibility of this. The easily-available plans show one of the ports with lids only, and these were indeed side-opening. The questions were how they would be held to the side and whether they would interfere with the channels. So it's interesting that the more detailed plans do indeed show side-opening lids. By the way, did you build a Sherbourne? Tony

Are you thinking of the AOTS book on the Alert, Kester? The Alarm I don't know. Anyway, your points are interesting. Without sweep ports it would be much easire to fit longer shot racks in my build! The following shot is of the model of the cutter 'Trial' of 1790 at the NMM in Greenwich. It shows sweep ports. Tony

Very satisfying when it starts taking shape like this. Looks nice and smooth. Tony

Thanks, Jurgen! Even cheaper at SAT. I clearly didn't do my homework! Tony

They've been great for me. Excellent documentation and communication, excellent packaging, cheapest prices in Europe for Proxxon, fast & secure delivery by DHL, very reasonable postage rates. What more could you ask? But that's me in the UK -- not Germany, where the delivery prices are of course lower and, I note, sometimes included in the price. Interestingly TBS Aachen also sell through Amazon and their prices on Amazon UK are considerably higher than if bought direct through their website. Tony

Here is the illustration from the AOTS Cutter Alert: Tony

If there's anything I don't understand, it forces me to look it up. I have done this several times with all sorts of jargon that exists on this forum, and each search leads to a new micro-world of understanding. I really appreciate your hands-on experience which makes the whole thing more real. But thanks for asking, Kester. Tony

Thanks, Kester. I think I should start putting smileys after light-hearted comments. I was only ribbing you about us poor learners, so don't take it to heart -- I think I understood your focus on Dirk! He's truly a great modeller, as you are, and we love learning from you both. Tony

I forgot to say, Kester, that I really appreciate your saying that you keep every scrap of the kit. I do the same. And I too will copy that backstay once I get that far. Great idea! I'm with Gregor on the method of asking questions. In my own work I have often told people that it's the art of finding the right question that will set them on the path to finding answers. For some reason (or lack of reason) there are many who don't have that kind of exploratory mind. One of the nice things about this forum is that there are several like you who have exactly the right kind of exploratory mind that makes this hobby so interesting. Thanks a lot! Tony

Thanks, Jan, but please note that I only make suggestions based on my highly limited experience. Others have more knowledge about the Sherbourne and model ship building than I could hope to achieve in a long time. You'll probably see in other posts I make about other builds that sometimes I give an inadequate suggestion, or even (in one case) where I have misunderstood the request entirely due to the fact that I hadn't read the request thoroughly! So never be surprised if you find others providing even better explanations or suggestions! And yes, my package arrived today, but unfortunately they sent some drill bits in error, so I have to send them back and wait for a replacement. Tony

There are others who can learn, Kester! Tony

In the Sherbourne kit Gregor is right in that the wire is there just to keep the sides upright. It is a kind of bracing bar. However, it is not in the correct position in terms of a real carriage as the photo below from the AOTS book on the Cutter Alert shows. In Chuck's version, it is also performing the function that was originally for the real gun -- there was a transverse rod on which the bed rested and this bed rested on the rear axle tree and held the quoin at the same time. In the Sherbourne kit, as far as I remember, it didn't hold any bed and the quoin just rested on the axle tree -- hence leaving the copper bar just to hold the sides at the right distance apart. Since it is hard to see the details of the bed of the carriage in the assembled carriage with the cannon, not many people would really notice. The problem for me was that the sides of the carriage in the kit just looked elongated and out of proportion. I hope that's right, and that it's correct! Tony

This is a really interesting build for me, so if, as you offer in a previous post, you can provide as much detail as possible about each step, I (for one) would be extremely grateful. Thanks Tony

I don't know if this helps, but these are the gun dimensions from the Cutter Alert, as in the AOTS book: Tony

I love seeing people's ideas for jigs. They are always so interesting, and stimulate new ways of thinking. Yours is no exception -- nice idea, Jan! Hubert Sicard also has some nice jigs for cannon at his site 'Wooden Ship Modeling for Dummies'. His hands are some of the shakiest I have seen, yet he manages very well -- so take heart! Tony

Thanks for the birthday wishes, you guys! I don't normally leave personal details on fora, but I just wanted to prove I'm as much Neanderthal as the next guy. Yes, self image changes with age. I used to be Tarzan. As for the rigging, Dirk, you've unfortunately let on that you can do it beautifully with your Swift and Krick Alert (for those who haven't seen, have a look at https://plus.google.com/+DirkKarsten/photos?banner=pwa. So you can't call 'chicken' on this one! Tony

Yes, we are both Neanderthal, except yesterdayI finished with 66 and today started with 67. I'm still working, but gradually trying to phase out -- it's just that people keep asking me to do some more. Looking forward to your jig! They're very satisfying once you get them working. I'm doing mine as a block which I will then mill. I'm still waiting for a particular mill bit, so last night I started trying to work out how to do the wheels. Tony

Thanks very much, Jan. I think we must both be in the same age group, then. I'm certainly no better than you when it comes to workmanship. You are lucky in that I haven't taken pictures of all the failed attempts at getting things right. After failing with the milling idea, I made two complete captain's companionway windows before I could find the skills to finalise one -- the perspex was particularly difficult to get the hang of as it melts so easily with the heat of cutting, and if CA glue comes into contact it ruins the surface (the trick here was to leave on the plastic covering that comes with the perspex sheet and remove it just before the final cut of the horizontal grooves). So you see it really is just a matter of determination, thinking, learning about the materials and tools, and, of course, practice to see what happens when you try something out. The pictures I made of the final version make the whole process seem more straightforward than it was -- although in reality, once I had the hang of things, it really was straightforward (discounting the unexpected episode with the vacuum cleaner!). As to the cannon, well, I'm just about to try my hand at milling the sides today -- having spent a while yesterday making sure I have the measurements right and practising on a bit of oak floorboard that my neighbours threw out. It's going to be very interesting, and I'm waiting to see how it all turns out myself! Tony