tkay11

I certainly found the bow and stern filler blocks useful for the planking in those areas. I don't think I could have done without them. Tony

Many thanks, David and Dirk. You can see how much I've been picking up from you and the others who have been so helpful in getting me started. I'm waiting for your rigging to begin on the Sherbourne, Dirk, so I can pick up hints on that as well before I have to start on mine -- so you'd better get cracking! Tony

Ha! A scroll saw! Now that has to be next on my list -- when I get to scratch building, though, may be in 5 years' time. Tony

Thanks, Kester. Certainly no need to be envious when your builds are so beautiful. It may well be that your focus on a simple modelling space gives you a similar focus on the perfection of your builds. You're quite right about keeping tools simple. Underhill was a great champion of the card table and basic tools. I too had hoped I would avoid buying the nice new electrical aids (saw, sander, wood lathe) but I succumbed to the temptation as I kept being frustrated by my inability to use simple tools. I am also very aware of the fact that other modellers have been doing this for much longer than I have (or are people who've worked with tools and wood throughout their lives), and so have had time to build up their skills. In my case, now that I am about to be 67, and I haven't had such a lifetime of experience, I reckon the time available to build up those skills is limited -- even though I would like to develop those same skills. So it's all a bit of a balance. Two examples of my failure: (1) keeping the depth of the hollows in the shot racks constant (with my modified drill stand the depths are now constant). I can envisage being able to do it otherwise, but it was so much simpler to use a drill stand. (2) sanding exactly parallel to a surface. I know I could build jigs to achieve flat sanding, but again it was in the end more convenient to buy a sander. All the same, I'm glad you liked the biscuit tin -- even my wife approved! These simple solutions are definitely the ones that are the most enjoyable. The machinery is just luxury -- although it is also fun learning the skills involved in operating it properly. Tony

It was lovely to start up my computer this morning and find these nice comments and likes -- so thanks Gregor, Eamonn and Jay! As I keep saying, the continued exploration of others' work and the thinking I have to do to guess how to achieve the results are possibly the main factors for me in this hobby. Great fun and continued stimulation to keep the old brain ticking over. Tony

I had started on the channels and deadeyes last month, but was distracted by the continuing discussions about mills. I was sure that there must be some way of modifying my drill stand to act as a mill, and sure enough, after a lot of web searching, I found a railway hobbyist who had done exactly that with his Proxxon drill stand. He was kind enough to share the details and provide a sketch. So with the sketch in hand, I adapted my drill stand as you can see if you look at my positng on the forum about this (see ‘How to modify Proxxon MB 140 drill stand to act as mill’ at http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/4539-how-to-modify-proxxon-mb-140-drill-stand-to-act-as-mill/?p=130660). This in turn led me to buy an x-y table for the drill stand as well. With all this thinking about better precision, a glance at the deck and looking at all the wonderful work on this forum showed me I could do a lot better with the guns, the shot racks, and the hatches. So why leave learning the skills to do better until later? Answer: do them again, but better if possible. Replacing the shot racks So the first thing to do was to remove all the shot racks. Unfortunately I had used epoxy adhesive to stick them to the walls. Despite much soaking in Isopropanol, they refused to give way, so I had to attack them with chisel blades. They came off, but it was clear I’d have to replace them as small patches of wood were also torn off the walls at the same time. That done, I cut some new strips of wood from some pear pen blanks using my Proxxon FET saw (with which I am at last really comfortable and pleased with the precision it can offer) and loaded them on to a jig that would hold them on the x-y table. That allowed me to mill a nice series of three hollows at a time spaced by 0.5mm, leaving gaps between each three hollows to file out as individual shot racks. I finished them off with a face plate, and painted them. I again used the x-y table to drill holes for the gun bolts that would go into them, and then with some of the salvaged bolts and rings from the previous racks, installed the bolts. The racks were then set aside until I had finished more of the other deck furnishings. Replacing the hatches – (1) the Gratings I had for some time been thinking about learning how to do gratings for myself – I had read a lot about the standard technique of using a circular saw, but had been somewhat mystified as to how to get a groove exactly at the right spacing from the saw blade. Of course, the answer was obvious the moment I decided to put blade to plywood panel. The way to achieve a perfect spacing was simply to start by cutting the slot in the panel by clamping the panel to the table top and having one edge of the panel firmly against the fence. Then, once the slot was cut, the panel was turned over and a spacer of the correct width was inserted between the panel and the fence. I had decided that I’d go for 0.8mm strips for the gratings with a corresponding hole size of 0.8mm in order to achieve a scale size of 2” for the gratings (it’s a 1:64 model). The kit gratings are about 1mm and they just looked a bit too big to my eye. Luckily I have a 0.8mm saw blade with no kerf, and after several attempts using a 0.8mm gauge from an old set of feeler gauges I had, I managed to cut 0.8mm strips that I could use in the slot. One little hint that others might find useful is to set the depth of the cut using feeler gauges until you can just feel the edge of the saw over the edge of the gauge as you raise it through the slot. I had especially enjoyed Dafi’s account of his trials making gratings (at http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/1449-making-gratings/?p=29923), and I went through similar set-backs. My main problem was making sure the grooves for the gratings were parallel. Given the grooves were 0.8mm, and that I was pushing the block of wood by hand over the blade, minute variations in the pressure I was using resulted in (1) increasing deviation from parallel as I went further into the block, and (2) a very small variation in the spacing between cuts. I found that a deviation of 0.01mm would translate into blocks that would have slightly different spacing, and that this would result in gratings that would only interlock for about 7 or 8 bars. To overcome the problem of variance from parallel cuts, I used a block of wood that covered both sides of the spacing bar as well as the blade. This was then pushed through by the cross-slide/ angle stop. I never quite managed to make grooves that were perfectly spaced for more than a couple of centimetres, but I found that that did not matter – the only grating that was large was the main grating and I found all I had to do was make up the central section as a cross hatch and then simply add ordinary strips of the right depth to the remaining outer grating grooves. Another recent purchase was a Proxxon sander. This I really find valuable. It allowed me to finish off the coamings around the gratings with ease. Curving the gratings I have seen that others bend their gratings using heat. I wasn’t quite sure how I’d do that and then put coamings round them. So I used an old biscuit tin first to shape the underside of the gratings, and then to shape a mirror mould so that I could curve the top of the gratings. Replacing the hatches – (2) Main companionway It has been said that the Alert’s deck plan would not work for the Sherbourne because the Sherbourne is smaller and using the hatches from the Alert would make the deck far too cluttered. That’s probably true, but I liked the look of my old companionway, so I just re-did it using pear wood from the pen blanks I had bought off eBay. It’s a bit better now, but not enormously so. Replacing the hatches – (3) The Captain’s companionway Much more interesting was the aftmost companionway. Others have preferred a tall structure, but I thought I’d stick with the Alert’s glass-covered one – mostly because I wanted to try my hand at using Perspex and embedding mullions in it. I didn’t like the rather tatty look of the one I first made, especially as I had CA glue marks on the plastic sheet I had used for the window panes. At first I tried using my modified drill stand to mill the grooves for the mullions in the Perspex. However, it soon became clear that with my drill at its very high speed the melting Perspex on the mill bit made the process unworkable. Even worse, I snapped my 0.8mm mill bit when trying to remove it from a solidified ball of Perspex. However, it struck me that I could use the skills I had learnt for the gratings. After a bit of experimentation, using a 0.6mm blade and making the necessary 0.6mm strip for the jig, it was relatively easy to slice grooves to a depth of 1mm in a 2mm Perspex block. With another bit of luck, I remembered that some 0.5mm strips of cherry wood that I had previously ordered were in fact 0.6mm thickness – so they made perfect mullions for the grooves in the Perspex. I first cut longitudinal grooves in the Perspex, then fitted the strips of cherry wood into those grooves (using small amounts of CA glue along the bases). These were sanded down to 1mm from the surface of the Perspex. The block was then rotated and the horizontal cuts were made with the saw using the same jig – though this time the depth of the cut was adjusted to allow for the extra depth made by the inserted longitudinal strips of cherry. With this done, the horizontal strips of cherry could then be inserted into the horizontal grooves, and the whole was then sanded down with the sander. The final touch was to mill a couple of slots for the hinges and to insert two 2.5mm lengths of 0.5mm brass wire into the slots. Watch out with the vacuum cleaner! I had rigged up a vacuum cleaner nozzle over the sanding machine as I found that was more successful at removing wood dust than the outlet provided for the sander. Unfortunately, the double sided tape I had been using to fix the companionway cover to a block of wood (to make the sanding more accurate and less dangerous) became worn and, as I was nearing the last bit of sanding on this rather precious piece, the vacuum cleaner simply sucked up the piece! So I spent a dusty 15 minutes taking the bag out of the vacuum cleaner and sifting through the dust until I found my precious tiny piece again. Still to come: Cannon Channels and deadeyes Tony

The keel clamp by Amati is nice but it is a bit expensive and a lot of modellers seem to get by quite well without one. I don't have one and can't say I miss having one. So maybe nice to have but not essential. Others may well disagree. Tony [edit] Advice that others often give on the forum is to start with what you have and then gradually add tools when you feel you really need them. That cuts down the drawers of tools that you may use only once.

If you post some pictures, then maybe someboldy would be able get a full understanding of the situation so that they could work it out. Tony

Lady Nelson is a great kit. I would have bought it instead of the Sherbourne, but it was out of stock at the time. Your dad will also get lots of help from this forum whatever he builds. Tony

Cornwall Model Boats also stock a very good range of tools as well as some tool packages (that may not be so useful) at competitive prices. Once you have looked at the links to the tools lists already posted by Mark, you'll find you can buy them from CMB. If your dad has already expressed the interest and he knows you are doing this for him, you might like to ask him what tools he would like. Another approach would be to buy the kit and then ask him what tools he would like to go with it after he has had a poke around the wood that is supplied with the kit, the instructions, etc. You might be into buying glue of two types (cyano-acrylate and PVA), tweezers, lots of cheap clamps, knives with spare blades, pin vice with micro drill bits, and razor saw with mitre box as well as paint set and brushes if he decides to paint. You'll find that many of the kits come with a recommended paint set. You may also find that if you buy a tool set that some of the included tools are never used as they are not really useful. Tony

Thanks, Gregor, for the info. I put holes into the cross piece exactly because of George Bandurek's build. I have no idea at all at this time of the belaying plan, and that's a problem for me because I don't yet understand the rigging -- having left that until I complete the deck. So the belaying pins are merely guess work on my part. As for the ship's boat, I was reading the discussion in the build of the cutter Alert on this forum at http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/4993-naval-cutter-alert-by-anobiumpuncatum-scale-148-pof/?p=147403, and followed the link to Roger Cole's build of the Alert. I had already downloaded his notes on the Alert, but I had entirely forgotten about them. In these notes he makes the point that the ship's boat could not have been stowed on deck, but would have been towed because (a) the boat would have been too heavy for the spars to lift it out of the water, and ( it would have been much too much in the way of the rope handling. Roger Cole also seems not to have any belaying pins on the cross-piece of his jeer bitts, and the design is interesting in that he includes supports for the jeer bitts that extend around the mast. It's interesting that Roger Cole has left the coamings squared off. He clearly did a lot of research on the Alert, which is a slightly later vessel than the Sherbourne. However, I much prefer the look of yours! By the way, I hadn't noticed the lovely pawls you have on your jeer bitts. Very nice work! I'll have to practise more! Tony

I love the idea of the pawls made with the pliers. Great work, Gregor. and interesting thoughts from Kester, as usual. Unfortunately I have no sailing experience whatsoever, apart from a couple of hours in a fishing boat off Mocambique which used just one sail. Oh, and a felucca for an hour. I don't even know what the terms 'bending' a rope or 'veering' an anchor mean. Time to use the search engine! [edit] Also I forgot to mention your coamings. They look great, although the Alert plans show them just as squared off. I would have expected them to be rounded at the edges to reduce injuries, and I have seen them shaped like that in other models. Do you have particular reasons for the shaping of the coamings round the gratings? I might just reshape mine to follow your path. Tony

For all your self-criticism, it looks good, and you have to start looking at it closely to see the difficulties. It's also highly probable that friends or relatives will look at it and admire the work -- precisely because they don't see it with the same precise attention to detail that you have given it for such a long time.. You'll find it a common theme amongst the ship modellers here that they are their own severest critics -- it's part of the deal when you are into something that demands, as you say, a lot of patience. It is deeply satisfying when technique improves with experience. I am constantly learning more patience. Looking forward to the continuation Tony

Well done for getting this far so quickly! Clinker planking is more difficult to do than the carvel type. I am sure you enjoyed working out the solution to your problem. If you want to see the effect on another Sherbourne, have a look at Stockholm Tar's at http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/2918-sherbourne-by-stockholm-tar-moved-by-moderator/?p=83995. You'll see the concentric effect there as well. Good luck on the other side! Tony

Thanks, Jan. It's catching, this model ship building thing, isn't it! You're doing a great job on that clinker planking. Reading how people do things is exactly what I am doing all the time. With regard to the hull planking, I am not clear from your log whether you are already doing this, but one piece of advice that people give is that it is a good idea to work on both sides of the hull -- lay a few strakes of planking on one side, then do the same number on the other. The reason they give is, firstly, that it is then easier to establish symmetry of planking on both sides, and secondly that it avoids creation of strain on one side. I don't think it will make much difference in terms of the strain on the small boats we are doing, especially if we have filled between the bulkheads, but it is a good idea in terms of symmetry. Don't worry about your English -- you're communicating well and that's what matters. Tony

Shamrock, it's only as demanding as you make it. If you've already done the Amati Shamrock (did you choose the model because of your name or are you just using your model's name for yourself?), then clearly you're not worried about working with wood and I should imagine you found various 'difficulties' of your own to get over during that build. The Sherbourne is most definitely suitable for a beginner. After all, I'm a beginner, and have enjoyed every moment. The only new aspect that the Sherbourne or the Chatham might offer over the Shamrock is the planking on the hull (ok, maybe the rigging will be more complicated and there's a few guns to work on), but there are plenty of tutorials on this forum (which I myself had to follow) to help you along. When I first looked at the tutorials there were several aspects that had me totally mystified (especially the instructions on how to cut a garboard plank). But I soon found out that the best way of learning was just starting and trying it out. Of course mistakes are made, but then it's easy enough to undo them and start again. An advantage of double planking is that it really doesn't matter how badly you do the first planking since it's never going to be seen, and it gives you plenty of practice for the outer layer. I am a complete beginner at working with wood and it is about 45 years since I fiddled around with plastic models (which at that time meant sticking one pre-formed part to another and following the instructions -- the only slight skill I had at that time was painting them). I thought, however, that if others could do these wonderful things with wood, and if others had similarly had to start somewhere, then it would be quite reasonable for me to try my hand. At the time I started, there were a lot of Sherbourne builds and so it was easy to see the various stages of assembly and there was plenty of help and encouragement (a tradition that is strongly maintained on this forum) -- it still surprises me how the highly experienced modelers on the forum spend a lot of time with newcomers such as myself when they must have seen and been through the same stages many times over. The only real 'difficulty' that most people found with the Sherbourne was fitting the transom at the stern, and each individual chose their own way of doing it. Otherwise you can make the kit as easily as you please just using the parts supplied. So it all depends on what you'd like to do. My own personal preference is to see every single part as a new model in itself with its own set of skills which I know I have to learn if I want to accomplish something better in the future. I have enjoyed exploring the variety of ways in which people have approached the individual parts. So I thought "hmm, nibbed planking, don't understand that, so I'd better see if I can learn how to do it". Then the same thing happened with the pumps, the windlass, and the other deck fittings. Then I saw someone making a ship's boat, and I thought I'd try that out as well. In other words, I liked what others were doing, and simply tried my hand at it. Maybe I am not achieving the wonderful finish that others have achieved, but it's been tremendous fun learning that I can actually do something like that. In the last month or so I decided I was very unsatisfied both with the gratings and with the shot racks that I made, so I have torn off the shot racks and made them all over again, and I have remade the gratings after learning how to use my saw to do so. All that will be forthcoming in some future part of this log. I was also very pleased at finding a way to convert my Proxxon drill stand into a mill. You should be getting the idea that no matter what your starting point there's a lot that's very achievable even if you can't see right now quite how to do it. A lot of the fun is puzzling it out for the particular tools and materials that you have to hand. When I go over the ways in which I have approached each step, I am highly conscious that others may have looked at the step in the same way and wondered how to go about it. So I just spend time explaining what I have done in case it helps other novices think through how they might approach it for themselves. The more experienced quite often will have done it better, but everyone understands that just doing it helps you develop your own sense of what you want to get out of the hobby. Another word of caution: don't be carried away with the need to make a build as accurate historically as possible. There are only degrees of similarity. For one thing, the sizes are completely different. If you just stick to the kit parts you'll still have a very pleasing model. You just have to decide what is 'pleasing' for yourself. The Chatham is a lovely model, and will have exactly the same skills required as for the Sherbourne. My estimate is that you will find it very pleasing but I can't predict what aspects you will find challenging. So why not post some pictures of your model Shamrock (especially if you have any photos of the building process) and start your log of the Chatham once it arrives. I and many others will look forward to seeing your progress. The thing is not to think from the start that it is going to be difficult. It may be difficult in the sense that at first you may feel it hard to achieve a particular accuracy, but you'll find that bit by bit your skills develop. I hope that offers some encouragement. You'll probably also find that once started not only will you not have a nervous breakdown, but that building these models is a great way to relax and to avoid one. Keep us posted on how you get on! Tony

How delightful to have a scratch model of the Alert on MSW2! It is one of my dreams that one day I will be able to do the same, so I'll be watching this build log with interest. I presume you've seen the 3D CAD build automated into a video at http://sketchucation.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=333&t=33757&sid=f942299afdf93114ad1c504acb5c6417, which is also based on Goodwin's book. Thanks very much for starting on this! Tony

The questions that remain unanswered and probably unmeasurable are dose, frequency and duration of exposure -- in addition to susceptibility. With the water example, the duration was very short but short exposures for immersion are non-toxic. Traffic pollution is definitely carcinogenic (and the traffic itself far more deadly of course) but for a tolerable number of humans. 'Toxic' is far preferable as a word to 'carcinogenic' because of the wide variety of possible health outcomes resulting from exposure, with varying intensities (from a mild itch to death). For some reason humans as a whole are more fearful of dying from cancer than any other form of death, with other forms often being more horrific, long-lasting, debilitating or painful. The simple message is that working with any tools or with any substrate (such as wood) has health hazards, and we choose to live with the uncertainties of particular risks because of the pleasure the activity gives. At the same time we take precautions to minimise the risks, so can use masks, dust extractors and good ventilation. There are many shipwrights amongst us who have lived four score years and ten even after a lifetime of exposure to a wide variety of toxic substances, and here I include alcohol -- that well-known carcinogen. Others have passed away earlier after their particular lifetimes of happiness. Genetics are clearly involved. So it's not with a pinch of salt that I take the news of toxicity of sawdust, as salt itself is very toxic and lethal at particular doses. Tony

That's great. Thanks, Nick. Tony

Thanks for the info, Nick. Could you give a link to the tool rest that you found online? Tony

Thanks, Jud and Wefalk, for taking me through something that should have been obvious if I'd bothered to put my mind to it instead of thinking there must be something more complicated to do! It's like a lot of the ship modelling I've been doing. Simple often wins -- just a little plain practical thinking needed! Thanks again, guys! Tony

Thanks very much, Jud. That's the kind of nice and simple idea that really appeals. Any suggestions for square stock? I hadn't thought that having a dial indicator might have problems when it comes to square stock but your idea made me think more carefully about how it would work for square stock. Tony

I am about to buy a Proxxon DB 250 wood lathe, along with an independent 4-jaw chuck. My questions are about the centering of stock in such a chuck. All the suggestions I have seen so far demand the use of a dial indicator. These have magnetic mounts. The questions are: 1. In practice is it important to have a dial indicator for centering the stock in this lathe (i.e. are the tolerances in wood wide enough to allow for centering by eye)? 2. How do you mount a dial indicator on the Proxxon since (as far as I know) the DB250 is not made of a ferrous metal that would take a magnetic base (i.e would I have to glue a sheet of metal to the housing to take the magnetic base)? I'd be grateful for any advice. Thanks Tony

You're right, Joe. I wasn't paying attention. Thanks for the correction. Tony

Mike, you might be thinking of the Bluejacket Shipcrafters kit of the Jefferson Davis. You can see it at http://www.bluejacketinc.com/kits/jeffersondavis.htm. It costs $375, and features in Milton Roth's book 'Ship Modelling from Stem to Stern'. The blurb on the web site says: "JEFFERSON DAVIS was one of the most famous of the swift patrol vessels, used both off our Atlantic and Pacific coasts. She is one of the Campbell class of 14 revenue cutters. This class has been described as being the "ultimate Baltimore clipper," square topsail schooners. This is a model for the experienced modeler. The rugged 1/4" basswood frames are closely spaced as in actual ship construction, allowing plenty of bearing surface for a smooth planking job. The frames are pre-beveled to ensure easy clamping and a fair lay to the planking. Most importantly, JEFFERSON DAVIS is a beautiful, impressive model." However, as you are in Milton Keynes you might find the cost of shipping, import duty and VAT a bit too much on top. Tony