tkay11

Very good comments, Michael, Mark and Harvey. This thread has been really interesting. As Harvey has noted, it has been exploring different aspects. We have the 'wobbly blade' strand, the 'fence' strand' and the 'fit for purpose' strand, all interlinked. The point about being trapped by convention is really nice, along with the problem of differences of interpretation. However I had thought that for ship modelling the thin blades with low kerf have specific function: to provide thin slits in wood at a small depth. My personal interest in using them, for example, is for gratings, slicing small (e.g. 4mm x 0.5mm) planks to smaller widths, making accurate cuts in very small pieces, cutting slots to hold slivers of wood and, in the absence of a mill, making shallow grooves. That's why I felt I had to buy more than one thickness of the thin type. Because of my lack of experience with saws, I may have gone over the top in this regard, but I'm now confident that I have the range I would like. Part of the problem for tyros such as myself is that it's hard to find resources that explain all these aspects of using a saw before we plunge in and buy them. I really liked Michael's suggestion of joining up with a model engineering society. I should have thought of something like that before buying a saw! I have not had any problem at all with the 80mm 1.6mm kerf tungsten carbide blade provided with the saw for cutting at a depth of 20mm or so. I bought 25mm thickness oak and pear pen turning blanks to experiment just to see what the saw could do. I also found 18mm solid oak floorboards left on our street which are extremely hard. The tungsten carbide blade cuts through all these with ease. So it is an easy job to cut down the larger sizes using this blade and using the smaller width blades for the smaller work. The discussion of the blade capabilities has clarified the problem Harvey brought up in the first instance, so now I'm looking forward to future discussions about how best to modify the fence! It's not that I can't cut to a specified width with the saw. It's more that it's extremely fiddly with back-and-forth readjustment. So it's become more of a challenge than a necessity to look for ways of improving the fence to make our lives easier. Even without a further modification it's certainly a whole lot easier than trying to do it with a hand saw. I see it as part of the process of learning to work with the tools we have (even though in this case I gave up on the hand saw rather quickly!). In order to avoid the problem of jumping in without knowledge, and following Harvey's thought, I'll now be buying 'Using the small lathe' which is available on Amazon in the UK at a very reasonable price of less than a tenner. [Edit] The reason, of course, being to prepare myself and to think through the value of having a lathe. And sorry for intruding, Harvey, with comments that may have been superfluous to your original interest! It's just that I am delighted when we have a thread that illuminates so much. Tony

Nice choice! Much envy from me! I look forward to hearing how you get on! Tony

OK, so I started searching for reports on the Accuriser. Here's what someone said on a classical guitar forum: "I received the Accuriser II accessory fence for my MicroLux mini table saw today. The idea is great, but I am quite disappointed in the quality, lack thereof. The advertising claims 0.001" accuracy, so I expected a precision machined part, but it is actually just some stamped and bent metal, looks cheap, and doesn't work very well. It is difficult to slide into position, has lots of play so who knows where true square is, and the securing knobs are unpleasant to the fingers." Of course, classical guitar players are sensitive about their fingers, but this is the only comment I found so far! I'll probably turn up more thoughts as I continue to explore. Tony

Sorry, Harvey, what I meant about Jim's blades is that they are the same size (1/2") arbor as those sold by MicroMark. Both his and MicroMark's need an adapter for the Proxxon which has a 10mm arbor. Jim doesn't make the adapter, and the only place I could find an adapter from 1/2" to the Proxxon's 10mm was MicroMark. So the choice is to get everything from MicroMark to reduce postage and Royal Mail costs, or to buy the adapter from MicroMark (cost = $6 + $18 postage + VAT + £8 Royal Mail Handling fee) and the blades from Jim. Either way it's expensive. As to the fence, so far all I have been able to do is to ensure the fence is square to the blade when clamped (fairly easy to do by loosening the nut at the base of the fence that links it to its tail piece) and to press down on the fence very firmly against the table (horizontally and vertically) when tightening the fence to the adjustment screw which should already be clamped. [Edit] Just an addendum about clamping the fence. Before locking the adjustment screw to the table, because that too has some play, it is important to hold the fence firmly against the table as well and then to lock the adjustment screw. After that you can ensure the fence is square to the table by holding it firmly and then locking it. I am sure someone like Mark Taylor who knows this saw far better than I do will make some more learned comment! Ideally we could develop some kind of Accuriser fence replacement, but that only works on the Proxxon FSE saw and I haven't seen anything on the market that does the same. Part of the problem is the fact that the back end of the table on the FET saw has no ledge on which to hold a fence firmly. I think one could be made from aluminium and glued to the back. If that were done it might be worth looking at the exact dimensions of the Accuriser to see if it would fit the length of the FET (or ensure at least that the new length of the table would be the same as for the FSE). I hope that makes sense! Tony

I've been through the same process as you, Antony. The arbor hole size with Jim's saw blades is the same as that of those sold by MicroMark, but he doesn't sell an adapter (I had emailed him and asked). Clearly his blades are better. I trawled through various European sites to find an adapter but the only one I could find was that supplied by MicroMark. So I bought two of the blades and the adapter from MicroMark. Be prepared to spend £14.93 to the Royal Mail for handling and duty, $6 dollars or so for the adapter, and $22 dollars or so per blade and $18 for shipping. That's pretty expensive all in all. The adapter itself could easily be made on a lathe, if you have one. I don't, unfortunately. I like my FET saw. The only thing is trying to make a better way of clamping the fence. Tony

A very nice tiller, Gregor. Hmm. I think I might re-make mine following your example. You also have a very nice finish to the wood. [Edit] oh, and I just saw the last picture. Someone told me in MSW 1.0 that the rudder pendants may not have been used for this type of cutter when I asked the same question after reading Zu Mondfeld. I can't remember the details, but I didn't go ahead with trying to make them. Tony

That's very helpful, Michael. I hadn't thought of model engineering groups. I'll look into that this weekend. Thanks a lot! Tony

That's a wonderful demonstration as well of the uses of a lathe, Michael (in addition, that is, to your very useful experimentation). I do so wish I'd had some training on machine tools. There used to be lots of adult education classes in the UK that taught those skills, but I can't seem to find any at the moment. It's a pity because I am sure there are lots of us who come to modeling and see the wonderful possibilities with machine tools, yet either have to jump in and buy, say, a lathe or a mill, and struggle to pick up the skills and the knowledge of what extras to buy and how to work with them, or just stand at the sidelines and watch with a certain amount of jealousy. I bought a couple of books on lathe and mill use but what is needed really is the hand on experience an apprentice or engineer would have. I know this is a bit off topic, but do you (or anyone) have suggestions of the best way for novices to learn -- other than trial and the multiplicity of errors? Tony

Thanks, ZyXuz, I hadn't noticed the archive section. Excellent work! And if you were able to look closely enough at my face, you'd see I'm winking. But the resolution of the image doesn't seem good enough for that. Tony

Thanks for reminding us, Hubert. That's exactly what I've been practising over the last couple of weeks. It's taking time, though, to achieve consistency so that the blocks all look the same size and shape. And I still can't get the grooves for the strops right. But it's certainly been worth the effort and I feel confident I'll get there in the end! I still might experiment with making a drum as a tumbler to put on my drill as others have done. Many thanks for your excellent site, which continues to give me inspiration on how to do things without expensive machinery. I love it! Tony

Thanks a lot, Per and ZyXuz. It's great to have comments like yours as it helps me find other builds from which I can learn and (b)logs I can add to those I 'follow'. @Per: I wish I'd seen the details of the T37 build. I have grandchildren and when they're old enough I'm thinking of building some boat like that for them. Actually, I say 'for them' but I have a sneaky suspicion that I'd be the one hogging the time with it. @ZyXuz: I enjoyed the idea of a switch in a barrel! You certainly crack along at a good speed with your build. Very enjoyable. But I notice the blog only starts on day 15. I suppose that's something to do with the blog being limited to a certain size. I was wondering how you had made the bombard shot so I presume that was part of the earlier blog. Tony

Very interesting. That would also explain why it works much better on thinner sections. Tony

I'm still working out how best to use my Proxxon FET. I reckon the comment about it being underpowered is correct as I find it is very sensitive to the combination of thickness and density of wood. To get round it I slice the bigger blocks (25mm square)into blocks about 5 or 6mm square using the large cross-cut blade with the wide tungsten teeth -- this just seems to chew through anything without a problem. I then cut those blocks into smaller blocks using the 80 tooth 'super cut' blade which has a kerf of about 1mm, and it's only after that I use the slitting blades. I'm still learning, but so far this seems to work quite well for me with oak, apple and pear. The other thing I do is to wipe wax from my Liberon wax stick over the blade and make sure it's clean. That seems to help quite a bit as others have already said. The problem I still struggle with is working with the combination of locking the longitudinal stop and the guide with the scale markings. Once I lock the stop to the guide I find it a bit unpredictable when locking the stop to the table. This makes it fiddly to achieve an exact distance from the saw. Unfortunately the solution for another Proxxon saw using the Accuriser is not available for the FET. So if anyone can provide advice on this I'd be glad. Tony

Great to see another Lady Nelson build. There used to be more on MSW 1.0. It was my first choice as a first build, but it was out of stock at the time and I went with an almost identical Sherbourne that I'm in the throes of making. I'm looking forward to following your log. Tony

Thanks for looking in again, B.E., an for your kind comment. I'd been wondering whether you would do your pinnace from scratch. I see you're after Chuck's plans, so I look forward to see how you do it. These small boats are a real joy unto themselves -- it's a delight to hold such a small and light little shell in the hand. In fact it's been the most rewarding and delightful part of my build so far even if (or perhaps because) it took such a long time to plan and to build. I continue to enjoy your Pegasus build very much indeed. Lovely skills you have. It made me think of buying a mill as well, but I'm putting it off until I get my head around the basic stuff! Tony

That's really nice of you, Bob! I've often read your comments with interest -- they always have a good dash of humour mixed in with the wisdom. I loved your Dory, but your note to me made me aware of your Spray which is really beautiful. I have a strong feeling that my next project will be along the lines of your Spray. I have the book by Ewart Freeston on the Construction of Model Open Boats, which I bought when I was attempting my build of a ship's boat, and that made me think more of this type of boat. It's certainly a great way to get into scratch building and the models won't take up a lot of space. I'll now be following your Malabar closely. My thought about my log is exactly to help others like myself who come across the mysteries of how to approach an aspect of a build for the first time. For the more experienced it's all old hat and for many the techniques obvious, but when I come across a log that explains in detail how the problem was approached, what tools were used, how they were used, and how things go wrong I learn a huge amount. So I hope to give something back with each faltering step of my own! Tony Thanks again Tony

Very nice discussion! Good tips for me as I learn to use my own Proxxon FET! I hadn't thought about wood dust collecting in the cut. Many thanks to you all! Tony

The zero clearance insert for my Proxxon FET saw is 2.54mm thick, or 0.1". You might make a reasonable one by gluing together two sheets of plywood, one 0.8mm thick, the other 1.6mm. The remaining 0.1mm could be made up of a sheet of paper in between if you find the glue doesn't do that. At least that's what I am just about to try. If it doesn't work I'll let you know! Tony

Ha! I admire your thinking re the Shapeways cannon -- but they're still around 25mm (same size as the kit cannon) and look expensive if you have them done in brass. 3D printing is certainly a very interesting option, though. It all depends on your approach to the kit. I agree that if you're after something of beauty then it's hard to beat the brass cannon you can buy. I can't think, though, that trying to file off a mm or so from the kit's cannon would do any good. Where would you file from? From either end you'd be filing away essential pieces of the cannon. That and the fact that all the dimensions are slightly larger. I did spend some time filing the canon, but only to get rid of the irregularities from the moulding. I'm still sticking with mine. I had a look at changing the carriages, and as I'd have to add only 1.5mm to the carriages to match the size of the cannon I decided I'd leave them as they are. They don't look nearly as well as Dirk's, but then I'm focusing more on learning basic skills at the moment. If I bought cannon that are beautiful, they would not match the rest of the build which is clearly very basic. Your ability is better than mine in that regard. It might be worth your while to turn your own cannon in wood. One of the very best resources for people who don't have much in the way of machine tools (e.g. myself) is Hubert Sicard's (he uses the name 'Bosco' on this forum) site called 'Ship Modeling for Dummies'. This has excellent videos on making jigs for parts as well as your own tools from very simple material. One of these is a lathe made from a standard household electric drill. He shows how you can turn very nice cannon from wood using old blades which you grind out from a pattern. The site is both in English and French. You have to pay 45 Canadian dollars for a lifetime subscription, but it is possibly one of the best value spends I have made. Many on this forum agree. It has hundreds of great tips, many of them illustrated by silent videos which you can download and keep. I was revisiting his site yesterday to remind myself how he makes his own blocks. Even if you don't follow everything he suggests, his imagination is so wonderful you are bound to have great pleasure in seeing his ideas. In order to fashion your own cannon you need to trace a drawing. I have used both Photoshop and TurboCAD to resize drawings from PDF files. It really is very easy to do. I wasn't clear from your note whether you already are experienced in working in Photoshop or CAD, but if you don't have Photoshop, Adobe are now distributing all the CS2 suite (which includes Photoshop) totally free. You can find it at http://www.adobe.com/downloads/cs2_downloads/ where you will see the varieties available for PC and Mac. Once you have fashioned one cannon, you can then make a mould and make as many as you like. I noticed that several people on this site have done that. It's something recommended by quite a few books. What I did for the barrels was to put epoxy filler in the muzzles then drilled that out with a 1mm drill and painted them black. You'll already have seen that the kit cannon muzzles are not centred properly, so the epoxy also had a use in establishing the centre point to drill. I use a Proxxon mini-drill in a Proxxon drill stand, so I was able to place the barrels in the vice made for the drill stand and drill vertically quite accurately. I did the same for the trunnions, replacing them with bamboo dowel I had put through a cheap drawplate. I am very poor at gauging a vertical when trying to drill with a pin vise. If you want to try a CAD programme there are many trial versions available. Older versions of TurboCAD are pretty cheap on Amazon (round £50), but you can get a totally free CAD programme from DraftSight. There's also the free version of SketchUp which can be used (though I didn't find that so easy for tracing drawings). I taught myself CAD on TurboCAD, so that's what I'm sticking with at the moment. I had another look at my cannon trucks and I'm still dithering about whether to remove the black banding -- it does look rather nice, as you say! Once I've learned how to do blocks properly, it may well be I'll turn cannon: but that's some way off at the moment. All part of the slow trek towards the beautiful finishes achieved by many of the modellers on this forum. Tony

Yes, I remember David's guns as well. Actually, because the gun barrels are an intermediate size, I have been thinking of making the carriages the right size for the barrels rather than buying new barrels. This is because I keep trying to use as much of the kit as possible without buying new parts, or else trying to make the parts. However I have to admit buying photo-etched 0.3mm eyelets following Dirk's lead. The carriages I made are for a 3-pounder while keeping the 3.5-pounder barrel from the kit. I based the dimensions on the Anatomy of the Ship book on the Cutter Alert where it says a 4-pounder barrel should be 6ft long, and a 3-pounder 4'6", or 28.6mm and 21.4mm respectively at 1/64. I measured my kit ones at 24.7mm or 5'2" scaled up. So they'd have to be 3.3mm shorter than the kit ones if they were to be the 3-pounders suggested by the kit. I was swayed not to buy or fashion new cannon by George Bandurek's comment (after making his own barrels) that the difference in size was barely noticeable. I do agree that the trunnions were hopeless --which is why I drilled them out and fitted my own. The trouble with making the carriages a bit bigger than I have at present is that I am feared that they will be too high for the gunports. I might make one up just to see, as I remain unsatisfied with the way my carriages turned out. In addition, I have now found out that iron hoops were not added to the wheels during this period, so I'd have to remove the banding I put on the wheels (or at least paint over it). Thanks for the comment about the ship's boat. It has been quite exciting for me to find out I could do it, albeit in a rather rough fashion. It has certainly made me enthusiastic to do more. I'll be off travelling again tomorrow, so I'll be out of the loop for a week (unless I can find an internet connection). Tony

Wonderful to see another Sherbourne started! You've done superbly so far. Beautiful planking and finish to the wood, and your cannon make me slightly regret giving up on the carriages supplied with the kit. I'm sure you've seen Dirk's (Dubz on this forum) build. He and Daniel (Siegfried) as well as David (written by his partner Amanda as Bangle) set a very high standard for Sherbournes -- although when MSW 1.0 went down we lost a lot of their logs. I do agree about George Bandurek's book being useful, he gives great heart to the novice builder in trying things out. I hadn't thought of looking at the Badger instructions, so I'm going to give that a look. For my own build I'm practising making blocks at the moment, with the cannon in mind. Also continuing to work on the ship's boat (working on the rudder gudgeons and pintles) but work keeps getting in the way. I hope to have more time after the middle of June. I'm very much looking forward to the rest of your build. Tony

Nice thought, Walt! How about some photos? Tony

It's well worth reading the biography of Patrick O'Brian/ Patrick Russ by his stepson Nikolai Tolstoy. It's called Patrick O'Brian: The Making of the Novelist, and you can pick up used copies on Amazon very cheaply. It puts a lot of his writing into perspective, as well as explaining how he derived his characters. Very interesting, really, as he hardly ever put to sea in his life -- and when he did he was thoroughly frightened. None of that takes away from the brilliance of character, plot, historical detail, language and writing. It just makes you realise that he was projecting his imagination of himself onto his two main characters. Tony

This is really interesting. The amount of work that goes into this is astounding. Thanks again for keeping the flow of info. I think I could do with a an extra few gig in my own head to help me -- and that's just with figuring out the wooden ship! Tony

Thanks, Randy. I guess I could have predicted that, but needed to be clear! Tony