Kishmul

My introduction to wooden model ships came out of the blue when the Admiral bought me AL's "Scottish Maid" as a Christmas present.

What a mess I made of it!

Thirty years later I have learned much, but have much more to learn.

Watching the posts here - those looking for help- reminds me of my early struggles.

Planking and rigging problems appear regularly from the novice or first-timer and still trouble experienced builders.

So, is there a place for and introductory series of kits?

The first would concentrate on planking- a half-hull model, POB, mounted on a stout board (MDF) with some nice, complicated lines.

Such a kit could concentrate on the planking alone and offer detailed instructions and decent wood at not too great a cost.

The end result to be hung on the wall as your first step into the art.

For an introduction to rigging, a section of deck around a mainmast. An MDF block extending to the width of the deck, fore and aft to encompass the required standing and running rigging, and depth to include the attachment of the chain plates, veneer planking. Full-height mast and, again, the novice learns a lot and ends up with a displayable object.

With such skills acquired relatively cheaply, our newcomer can approach a complete, POB, vessel with much more confidence than many of us have on our third or fourth build.

Or, is the desire to start with a full-on, 1:96, HMS Victory, too hard to resist? Even when (as has been suggested elsewhere) the majority languish uncompleted. 

Just an idle thought-what do you think?

Ken

Thank you, I'll take a look at that!

Ken

Lovely work, I'll watch this with interest.

What software is being used for the figurehead?

Thanks

Ken

Casting the net further around the world, check out www.pandaw.com for some contemporary rivercraft (built as recently as 2013) based on sternwheeler designs from the 1880's.

This is where I am headed for this year's project.

Ken

I don't know, but as ratlines are the means of getting aloft and the crew need to get aloft I'd say yes.

Here, in the UK, the cheapest (inevitably) come from China, but the quality is acceptable if you are prepared to wait a month or so for delivery.

Many are labelled "PCB Mills" (Printed circuit board) for the electronics market and can be found on Amazon with standard 3.2mm shanks and a mill size down to 0.25mm.

The price can be worryingly cheap - around a tenth of that of UK suppliers- but, with care, they work well.

Below 1mm dia I have only used them as drills, above 1mm they perform well as mills.

Ken

The grain will also depend on how the planks or billets were sawn from the original log.

In English this is known as "conversion" and there are four principal methods.- through and through, flat (or plain) and quartersawing (modern or traditional). Each method has both strengths and weaknesses and the conversion method is chosen to suit the intended purpose.

Terry Porter's book "Wood Identification and Use"  is a fine resource and will introduce readers to a vast range of woods to consider for use.

Ken

Try a web search for copper slug tape. It has an adhesive backing and is easily cut. I have used this before. If nothing else it is cheap enough to give it a try at no great loss.

Ken 

I  agree on the 0 errors point. It must also be said that Boudroit's volumes on the 74 gun ship were never intended to be a practicum for model makers. That said, they are an essential reference for anyone who intends to make such a model.

I own the English translations of Boudroit's  masterwork and some of the errors may derive from that, whilst all the drawings are scaled, that the dimensions vary from French "pieds" to metres requires concentration.

As an example, the width of the keel varies along the length, in several drawings this is not shown, the width being the same as at midship.

No, I have not built a 74, perhaps I never will, but I have begun to tackle the project in 3D CAD.

No, I do not think that I cannot build a 74 because of the errors, I simply have to surmount them. I have my (many) doubts about my wood working ability but fewer about a 3D CAD "build" -errors are easier to spot and correct in the virtual environment.

My point remains the same, Boudroit's books and Lemineur's plans offer, probably, the most comprehensive resource to the building of a 74. Though not without inevitable errors, their value remains. That these publications are all you need for perfection is misrepresenting the truth, there is still a lot of drafting work to be done. And skill. Time will tell as to how well I will do, probably not at all well, but the journey will be interesting, as will discussions along the road.

Ken

I have the Boudroit books and the Lemineur plans (at 1/48). I can confirm that there are errors, discrepancies and omissions. You will have to do a lot of lifting, lofting, thinking and drawing to produce a model.

Ken

The website vikingship.se has an article on how to row a longship. It states they sat on chests.

Another suggestion for hiding the wiring is to use copper tape laminated into walls or supports. 1mm ply for the interior with veneer or whatever (to scale) for the exterior with two (+ve and -ve) strips in between. Lead these down into the hull where wiring is more easily hidden. Then through the keel and supports into the baseboard.

Ken

Try searching for dolls' house lighting. These come in strips of various lengths (and number of lights) around 6mm wide and less than 2mm thick and are easy to hide. On Amazon UK search for "Topledshop" for examples and prices. They are what is going into my sternwheeler this summer.

Ken

Access.

Indeed, the NMM does not own the copyright to original 17th century plans (though they might be covered by Crown Copyright) but they do own the copyright to the photographs or scans that they have made from them.

I am in a series of discussions and correspondence with a recently retired lawyer who specialised in such matters.

She is forthright in drawing the distinction between copyright, patent and intellectual property rights.

She also accepts that advances in technology make it hard for the law makers to keep up.

Straightforward copying of another's plans is an obvious infringement of copyright but, whilst still offensive, using the same plans to produce  3D prints of (say) a set of cannon it would be hard to prove that an infringement of intellectual property rights had taken place.

I am happy that this forum takes a hard line on such matters, but worry that there is a grey area in law and practice that is growing greater at quite some speed.

Before CAD, when I was a pen and paper draughtsman, proportional dividers were an essential bit of kit and I own an expensive pair.

They are little used these days, but I would not be without them.

One word of caution when using them for planking (as has been mentioned above). When measuring from the frames or bulkheads, you are measuring the chord- a straight line between two points on the circumference of a circle or arc- not the length of the arc itself= the width of the plank. In most ship model situations the error will be so small as to be irrelevant, but it is there.

I have bought three of Ancre's books (in English) and one set of plans. Service (to the UK) was prompt and reasonably priced.

Ken

Yep, the cost would be high, but a few items scattered about can enhance a model at a reasonable cost.

I am about to start a 1:24 scale model which includes a galley and dining saloon, visible if I leave the doors open and through the windows.

I can buy crockery and copper pots from 1:24 scale dolls' house suppliers, not particularly cheap, but I am sorely tempted!

I did see a cut-away model of the "Cutty Sark" once complete with cargo of tea, hundreds of boxes true to scale of which the maker was very proud. Another viewer pointed out that the maker could have reduced his workload by only creating those that we could see and placing them around blocks.

But then we frequently spend hour fashioning pieces that will never be seen.

Whatever, yours is a great build.

Try taking a look at the suppliers of accessories (in 1:48 scale) for the plastic military modelling diorama scene.

A quick look brings up oil barrels and much else, some nice clutter to enhance your model.

(No cotton bales that I have found yet!)

Ken

And, where on the planet are you?

In my experience (limited, but extending to ships, horse-drawn vehicles, boxes and doll's houses) it is rare to find a set of plans that are 100% accurate.

To avoid frustration in the workshop (and the creation of large amounts of interestingly-shaped but expensive firewood) I "build" the model in 3D CAD in advance. This is not devoid of problems. CAD can be too accurate! That irritating gap that you have spotted and zoomed in to inspect is 1/512 of an inch wide, glue will fill that. Using the array function to place three portholes equally across a ten inch bulkhead creates an issue. Mixing units is possible and may be of use - buying rather than turning two hundred stanchions is a good notion, but if they are sold in mm and you are working in inches.......

To overcome this, I set the precision in CAD to that which I might reasonably attain in the workshop- for wood 1/64".

Even using this method, and checking wood dimensions as I go, planked hulls always require a final sanding to look "right".

I appreciate the dilemma when plans appear way off but many are xth generation copies of hand-drawn lines.

Imagine the problem of lifting lines from a 1:48 paper plan to create a full-size vessel with a keel in excess of one hundred feet.

CAD is an increasingly useful tool, fairing is still essential.

Just stumbled over this log, and have read a lot of it. Excellent work (as all have said) but, more importantly, excellent attitude- and that is where the excellent work comes from.

Ken

All of the above. If that fails, talk to a local auction house, you will not get much, but you will know that  the new owner paid hard-earned cash for them. Look out for interior designers, they like exotic items. Bars and restaurants with a sailing or nautical theme are another option.

Just read this entire log- astounding, and a perfect way to spend a Sunday afternoon.

Very few can approach your woodworking skills, very few your metalworking skills, very few your carving skills. All three together and you are pretty much on your own!

I echo the comments of all others, but would add that the lighting deserves particular praise, that is genius.

Ken