Heinrich der Seefahrer

Jan,till mid September. Than the birthday "kid" is back home, so I think I,ll be ready in time. If I don't too much extra stuff...

...too much on a baroque ship😂😵😄

The upper wales must be risen over the main number of gunports - the work will be the same due to the lids as the interrupters. The idea of sanding away the lids and renewing the planking is still there. But I may risk the stability of the hull. 

I will open the aft gunports.

Here the Evergreen stripes I tryed out to imitate the wales not being cast onto the hull.

No boring you with the contest I present the winner!

0.40"x0.40" / 1,00x1,00mm!!!

As you can easily see from the primer freed lines of the planks the rest will be some nerv devastating measuring and cutting.

I think about using CAglue to avoid the clamps to fix the wales.

But the Evergreen part fit smooth and easily to the hull - so my highpriced invest has its return. And the testing here is sucsessfull the torsion through the hulls thumblehome form is taken by the material.

I would never have got the nerves to try this out on a $150 Heller hull of the SOLEIL ROYAL kit.

Thanks a lot, Christian!

Hello the planning goes on.

I compared the DE ROODE BUL with the 70gun Dutch two tier ship of 1660/70 by Heinrich Winter. 

Cetenty the Frigate is smaller but the changes to be done are obviously.

The frontpart needs some changes.

It is totaly clear to my point of view that here ist the most to be done.

Here the situation with the bull as artistic part of the transom.

Perchance I should change from H0 to TT scale - but as it has a bit of a caricature it looks funny - what do you think?

On 8/23/2019 at 9:07 AM, AnobiumPunctatum said:

Can you make some pictures of the colored stand by daylight? What I see looks really nice. (...)

@AnobiumPunctatum

Hello Christian, here the pictures you longed for -

made in bright Berlin highnoon sun light.

The matt clear spay doesn't work too good.

It is not as "deep" as I hoped to get it with the five layers of ink and the clear spray.

The washer in the background is not finished yet.

The washers do their job bravly

to hide the join between the plastic bars.

Painting project ended - now I have to drill into the washers to screw the screws in and then developing nailheads to camouflage the modern cross screw heads again.

...and music of the epoque to give some acustic idea of my mood for this project to you.

Okay, that's me! I am building at the Revell Peter Pan JOLLY ROGER when

The dream of a Louis XIV. commode crossed my way and I am attacked by

the beauty of a single golden detail: the FAUNUS.

s a mythological figure a horned god of the forest, plains and fields; when he made cattle fertile he was called Inuus (there the link to DE ROODE BUL). He came to be equated in literature with the Greek god Pan. 

So the idea is to develope a freelance ship - as 20 years ago with my gardenrail locos.

As I understand Dennis right with his JOLLY ROGER it is a nice basis for experimenal work, there are not very much building threats floating around in the www - so I'll use her as a trial support. FAUNUS must get a new transom and I tend to lift the aft end of the hull a bit to get a higher transom with a larger couronnament. I will try some experimental work to the craving imitation and as a Frigat de Plaisire* I can add just a little bit more akanthus leafs and gold than typicaly would be found. 

For the coloursheme I found a

second furniture as source of inspiration.

And it was already done at L'AURORE 1766.

Ant the flourish green fits to the natural godness auf faun.

And the figureheads prototype is also found:

What I tried first was to get a nice and individual nameplate

Here from the TAUREAU BLANCE- the "White Bull" the name for 2nd Revell JOLLY ROGER kit (as I decided not to build the Peter Pan film ship).

And the trail to get an

individual  nameplate by using the A basic appearance for N and U, too. {Doodling while phoncalls can be more creative than the hole call - giving you a success that is not in the call until you realize it and turn the conversation to fun, smiling and a bit of nonsense and you end up in the business call with a pretty good result.}

I know it is spleeny - but better spleeny with a smile than grumpy with a heart attack.

Take care!

*...and with a thirteen gun boardside you can sink your competitor d'amoure easily but soundfull on the canals of Versailles.

Highly intertsting methods of work and excellent craftmansship you do show to us, Thanks for sharing!

Veryyes Marc I could quote you completely and sign any paragraph by an "as with me"! (Without the luck with SAINT PHILIPPE to keep her on her Australian stand [upside down].

And the fact that you do not are in the need of a planer to get the thicknesses you depend on - you nust glue two smaller sizes together to what you need! :D

Thanks for the bare wood hint!!!

3 hours ago, AnobiumPunctatum said:

Can you make some pictures of the colored stand by daylight? What I see looks really nice.

 

I know, that the wrong place for a discussion, but is the basis -the old Heller kit- a good base for all the work and research you invest? Isn't it easier, if you like to work with Styrene, to do it from scratch with Evergreen-Profiles? I got this question every time I look in your buildlog in my mind.

Oh Christian, yes I'll do when I have got enough sunlight in my model yard... 

The sceptical view on the hull - oh yes.

I do think the same from time to time. But on the other hand it saves a lot of work to get the hull symmetrical... 

I have got the four Heller hulls to work through after this I can restart the moonography to build the sister LE TONNANT 

On the other side 

LE LYS or LE SCEPTRE are of interest.

But Marc Hubacs Historian is right I think - we do the best to this kit we could do.

 But thank you really for this warm and friendly advise.

4 hours ago, Hubac's Historian said:

I hear what you’re saying here, Chris, but in all fairness even the St. Philippe project is a bit of a forensic re-construction.  In my opinion, the detail is appropriate for the time period, and I am not surprised that Lemineur is taking a bit of a boilerplate approach to the small things like this.  If there were Van de Veldes of the SP, that clearly showed the detail, I might feel differently.  As it stands, though, there is very little documentary reference to the French style of chesstrees in the latter 17th C.  Take heart - it was still money well-spent😁

It was so horrifying, Marc, I would have bet my month budget for books & building (not for food) this would never ever happen. Yes it is worth the spent money - but you know it is like

a dot of rost ob your Rolls-Royce cooler tempel.

So on the other hand I do feel free to chance a bit more here and there on these plans like the colouring - I will not paint the transom with a tassel brush all over golden and vermillion.

@Hubac's Historian

My idea to add blank wood ond little details in lapislatzuli wasn't discussed deeper - the questions were a bit going under a hiding in the text. What is your personal oppinion towards this solution? In particular the little red interruption on the on the very top over the couronnament? And the idea of keeping some areas in unpainted wood,I reference to

baroque furniture with the wood and gold effect. (If you need further intormation about

this commode with its

astinishing wooden and metal caftmanship for your state rooms interior

....it is at the Metropolitan museum of art / Heilbrunn Collection - the solution is closer you think.

https://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/ffurn/hd_ffurn.htm

I am really angry!!! 

Today I had some time to read in the 2018 edition of L'AURORE -

Fregate legere 1697 von Lemineur/Ancre.

I had suddenly the strong feeling of an d'ja-vu due to the rope sucking head.

Plate N°9 in the L'AURORE monography on page 90f I found it.

I thought "I have seen this motiv several days before in Rhenania, didn't I!?"

So I picked out my SAINT PHILIPPE monography on p 148f plate N°34 "Evaluation with fittings" I figured it out,

I discoverd the very same -not any similar -  head again! So it was the same head, same function, other ship!!!

So I had both taken from the details specilalside than it is absolutely obvious:

So is this the high level of recearch and originally reconstruction I can hope for for £220???

"Never trust in any plan, even the the original onces can be doubtful!"

Wolfram zu Mondfeld

The windows look remakable compared to the prototype.

21 hours ago, philo426 said:

Gluing the sided on one section at a time.

There are severa remakable differences to the windows

of the as-built-version - can you do something about this?

20 hours ago, amateur said:

 

(...) 'De Roode Bul' (...)

Thanks a lot, Jan! So that changes the hole title, too...

The discussion of Oxen and "Stier" isn't for children so we avoided this.

B.t.w. due to his picture of the ship names banner:

What is RED BULL called in contemporaty old Dutch?

Here on the very right the

RED BULL unpainted and also the figure head is hidden somewhere in here.

What cow do you estimate made the race to this prominent position?

The laying cow in the middle is choosen partly as figure head(front not aft!!!). Hoping the neck does fit to the stem.

4 hours ago, amateur said:

Your main concern to get it more Dutch willbe the side-galleries.

These should be pleasing to the eye, go with the flow of the wales, and show curves, instead of this boxy revell thing.....

 

Jan

Thank you very much for the advise, Jan!

I.

That is suddenly so clear what  has to be done - laying in bright sunlight what is wrong...

...I have been on a short hunt for pictures in my break and figured a bit of details out.

One question, Jan, @amateur the clinker planking on the hulls upper sides isn't green as on BATAVIA it is red! Is this a distinguishing difference between VOC and 7Admitalitys ships or are the paintings both simply noncontemporary and by this wrong like many XIXth century history paintings?

 So I will cut out a ships name printed simply on a slip of thick paper, than painted in clear matt - bending the ends a bit and it looks like a craving .

...your help really made my day! At home I have to look for the plans of the Peller model and the "Der holländische Zweidecker" book from Höckel also the "Modellbau von Schiffen des XVII.Jahrhunderts" and "Risse von Schiffen des XVII.Jahrhunderts". So there should be plans of some Dutchlike Brandenburgian man-o-war floating around in my plan drawers in the bureau tableau.

Here an English design but a wonderful made and fine detailled drawing... 

Perchance I can add a lot of flourishs and curlicues from magic sculp and other stuff.

II.

Also I ordered a cattle set from railwaymodelling to catch a bull - so I can sand it down to 4/5 of its breadth, paint it and glue it onto the upper transom on a some intersting flourish decored pedestral - "...and Bob is your uncle!"*

By this I hope to give her a more noble touch - also by adding a pair of archers as transom to sidegallery figures (old 15mm tabletopfigure). Also the figure head will come from the cattle set (deheading a, cow). But if it looks too small I'll have to buy some in HO or 4mm scale in thethe railway modeling shop in the city.

______

*Terry Pratchett - an old old dwarfs saying.

Certainly I wasn't able to fall asleep as the Dutch Frigates and the hullsides does match and doesn't. What makes the kit looking so Dutch and what is wrong? Let's have some comparing. Here some typical prototypes from the XVII.century

DE ZWARTE PAREL, vdV

ADSPETEREN Dutch Fregat 1665, vdV

Here a 1666 britisch Frigate for comparison

DE LOYAL GEORGE 1666, ,vdV - taken by the Dutch. Also with wales not so prominent but still there. The after part doesn't rise as the Dutch do - and so the kit looks like a Dutch frigate.

As you can see the wales are undersized by Revell and rounded compared with  the drawings - and single instead of a pair of two bars. 

So I ordered 1x1mm Evergreen polystyrol to inmitate the wales this night.

That's all, folks!

In the XVII.century allways parallel to the planking as the planks had to fit between

the before fitted wales on the original! (Both drawings from Mondfeld "Shipbuilding in the XVIIth century".)

Also the twodeckers show the same solide wales.

The breakhead bulkhead is diffrend at the vdV drawing

from the kit - what is complete rubbish and will not throw it away. It will be sanded seriously down so I can restart with planks, bars and wales closer to the original pattern. So there is a plenty to do - also further towards the figurehead! 

Step N°1 - As the black plastic is not ideal fotfor my bad eyesight to catch any details so 

I sprayed it with grey primer. Now I  an see if my work to egalisize the

couronnament was successfully done. The writing under the windows must disappear in a unique step in the working progress. Ihave to open the aft gunports and to add gun barrels and lids.

During the drying of the prime I can clean up the admirals stair case

before it is sprayed golden...

...and after without any ink and drybrushing.

All these are good exercises for SAINT PHILIPPE and so todays work ends.

Here the Bulls' details... 

The run of the windows is quite similar at the

out of production and outdated Revell - and not very nice painted kit.

Thanks Jan,

but for bashing that 1969 Revell kit up to a real WAPEN VAN EDAM all Dutch shiplovers will be right to crucify my a.s.a.p.  .* 

So the JOLLY ROGER is a kind of a sketch of a Dutch frigat and Itry to scratch off the Disney nonsense. Getting a cuddly Dutch fregat out of the kit. So thanks for your help I can put an original red(brown) bull into the couronnament. Thanks for the wounderful support that helps very much.

The wraith portotype  I will copy from L'AURORE details. Or taking the encirlement around the name from L'AURORE directly. 

Hopefully I can bring the decor around the bull on the transom...

We will see.

______

*The next Heller SR-hull will be LE TERRIBLE - but I think about a swifting towards a well documented Dutch ship as the VdV-drawings are full of remakable details. But the SAINT PHILIPPE is in the yard and only a small space is empty for RED BULL... I will have to search for a fifth Heller hull. But is that something brainless thing to do? All the French shipbuilding routs in Dutch and Danish built ships that were copied and altered later on step by step - but the alterations are more and more.

The ship with the bull on the couronnaments name is

WAPEN VAN EDAM 1644 and it fits quite well to

JOLLY ROGER.

The front view is less easy to compare

Van der Velde versus

FLYING DUTCHMAN glowing in the dark...

But VdV wins by more details!

Hello friends, 

the young lady safing my life* will have birthday in 2 1/2weeks!!! So I picked the old WaltDisney JOLLY ROGER** pirate ship out of my pile of kits. Due to the sentence as she says if she thinks about me she remembers ships... 

So I do remember the nearly funny film (I was allways a sceptical guy even with Walts' productions at childhood - did I have had this illness?) and the

JOLLY ROGER pirate ship (very first Revell kit box I can remember - Monogram is the P-61 Black Widow - Heller is the huge SR-box) the 1/72 scale I wouldn't take too serious.

As I don't know if the young lady likes the film or the infantile application of a dutch warship I am going to re-historical it a bit in colour and appearence. So the sails were de-colourfulled, the pseudo-funny skull figurehead will be replaced and the big skull on the transon will be exchanged against something semihistoric*** Dutch. I think about a typical oilpainting: The "RED BULL" - Dutch seems to be "DE ROODE BUL"**** as on the historical Dutch ship BULL but coloured in Revell matt 86 (personally called "foxred" - as used for horses in tabletop).

The rest is quite fine with the kit - there has only to be made some little changes in the colouring towards BATAVIA as a source of ideas. And there will be a bit of additional detail work. And perchance I am going to open tje state rooms windows giving a inner part into the kit. But I am affraid about reclosing the windows again - and running out time!

But certainly the "glowing in the dark" paint will rest on the shelf. The result I aim for is a "positive carricature" of a Dutch sailingship. 

At the  begin I want to say thank you to @Ab HovingAbHoving for his articles about his wwounderfull small Jacht as the initial giving idea what to build!

_______

*by sending me in to the emergency as as a nurse she recognized it was a stroke.

** https://www.scalemates.com/kits/revell-h-377-jolly-roger--163552

*** analog to "semiscale"

**** ...working in a Dutch company the only Dutch native speaker I know is our CEO. 

1 hour ago, flying_dutchman2 said:

😁 I love it. 

Marcus 

That were businessmen... 😇

Wow you do astonishing progress, Ab! All the best to you - and thanks for sharing.

As I try to infect friends with the Bacillus modelbuildus I am very happe about authentic plans for not too sophisticated models. My plans of HEEMSKRECK is too much for a simple start. So thank you very much.