Bill97
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Thanks my friend. I am going with omit everything then. Just the sails I have furled to the yards. Still have to add the angled one on the back connected to the mizzen mast (forget right now what it is called).
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Furled , unfurled or no sails -Preference
Bill97 replied to Canada Steve's topic in Masting, rigging and sails
Paul have you been over to my Endeavour build to see how this turns out? -
Furled , unfurled or no sails -Preference
Bill97 replied to Canada Steve's topic in Masting, rigging and sails
Thank you Trevor. That is interesting and helpful. So are you saying I should set the stay sails and the jib to their stay and have the furled as well instead of leaving them off the ship? -
Furled , unfurled or no sails -Preference
Bill97 replied to Canada Steve's topic in Masting, rigging and sails
On my OcCre Endeavour I am going with all the sails furled on the yards with a lot of the rigging (clew, sheet, and tack) attached along with the buntlines rolled up with the sail. All the lines I am adding are tied at the appropriate belay point. My curiosity is the staysails. I see a number of photos of ships in this configuration. What comes of the rigging lines for the stay sails if the sail is not rigged to the stay? Are they just not there? I am trying to imagine the crew setting the stay sails including the rigging. How did they do it?
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Ian a general rigging question my friend. My plan at this point is not to add the staysails. I have seen several photos of the Endeavour replica and other square sail tall ships with out the staysail rigged. I assume this was often an option employed depending on conditions. My question is about what is done with the rigging lines that would be used on these sails? Are they somehow attached to the sail when it is set and the ropes then dropped to the belay points. Or are the ropes always there just not attached to the staysails? Similar question about the bowlines on the square sails. If I have them furled would they bowlines still be attached to the sail only extending from the end of the rolled up sail and still going to the belay points?
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1 year anniversary today of the day I started my OcCre Endeavour. Will also be the day officially shown on my medical record that I lost my mind! 🤪 Rigging this beauty in accordance with the AOTS is a job not meant for the faint of heart. All those ropes will be tied down to their appropriate location. This is just the fire mast and the bowsprit.
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Ok gentlemen I need your help once again. I am looking at the rigging of the spritsail. In particular I am looking at line #7 in the first photo (spritsail course sheet) and trying to determine the belay points of both ends of this line. I have scoured the Endeavour AOTS and the OcCre instructions. Photo 2 from the AOTS shows one end of it tying off at point 12 on the side. I can’t find anything showing where the other end of the line ties off. In my other builds I checked both ends of the sheet are located near each other. On my Victory one end is secure and the other end passes through a hole in the bulwark where it then tied off to a cleat on the inside of the bulwark.
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Marc you have any idea why the MSW site does this. I knew you didn’t react to my post 7 times in a 5 minute period 😀. This happens from time to time.
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Well, as is often the case in my builds, I go two steps forward and and then one step back. I did the fore and main yard lifts following the OcCre instructions (photo 1). Then looking through the AOTS for something else I discovered I had rigged them incorrectly (Photo 2). The OcCre instructions shows the lift coming back down to the end of the yard a second time and passing through the block that will be used for the sheets. The AOTS shows what I expect is the correct way. Removing the lifts and doing them correctly.
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Hey Daniel hope all is well. Curious if any updates on your AV build? Enjoy so much reading through your build as I approach the start of mine.
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Slings, lifts, tyes, etc. installed at this point of the running rigging using a combination of OcCre instructions and the Endeavour AOTS. Thanks Ian and Allan for your advice.
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Allan I do enjoy a diorama. Here is my Heller Soleil Royal in a diorama. But as I look at it now, for authentic I should have had the yards turned a bit.
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Thanks so much again Allan. I have never displayed one of my models this way but in cases where I have the sails unfurled I should have the yards rotated forward one side or the other, not squared? As I glance around my “ship yard” I see all my ships have the yards squared, regardless of sail display and the lifts on both sides taut. This is not correct. Moving forward I should do that differently on future builds. On my current build, the Endeavour, I have all the sails furled and the yards squared. Should all the lifts be somewhat slack or taut?
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Thanks Alan. I am reading through your comment a couple times for clarification and understanding. As you see in my comments the lifts were pressed tight against the first shroud with the crossjack squared. I moved the anchor point on the cap forward just a bit so the lifts barely miss touching the shrouds when taut. This anchor point is nearer where the top mast passes through the cap and less wood thickness but I guess since they really did not carry weight this would be OK. Allan I am also curious while I have your attention, the Endeavour AOTS do s not show lifts for the topgallant yards. This is correct? Ian we can both pick up some tips from Allan. Thanks both of you for your help.
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Thanks Ian. My lifts do not run through the shrouds but twang (your great word) up against them. What I think I am going to do is put an eyebolt nearer the front of the top in the area where my tweezer is pointing and run the lift to it. The AOTS has the eyebolt under the top. Your opinion of this.
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Ian here is an additional picture of the crossjack from the Endeavour AOTS book and the number legend. It only shows a sling, lift, horses, stirrups, braces, and a truss. 🤷
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Yes Ian that is from the Endeavour AOTS. In this method would the cross jack yard not be raised or lowered by a line through a block and down to the deck? A second new question for you Ian. I have added the lifts to the fore yard. A block arrangement is at each end of the yard and a matching pair tied to the cap. When I run the lift it brushes against the first upper shroud. Expect that should not happen. A similar situation happens at the topsail yard but here I could run the lift through the cross tree. Lines are not permanently tied yet so corrections are certainly possible. Your thoughts? I could maybe move the block arrangement tied to the mast top forward but that would require using an eyebolt. Eyeballing the mainmast and can tell I will have the same issue.
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Alright my friends I am stumped. I can not figure out the correct rigging of the sling for the crossjack yard. The first picture is the drawing from the OcCre instructions. The second photo is from the AOTS book. Which I am not completely sure what is going on there either. I understand the sling. But does any part of the rigging of the sling go down to a point on the deck! The OcCre instructions show a red line going from a double block on the yard up through single blocks on the top and then down to the deck. Not sure exactly what is going on there with a double block on the yard. The AOTS shows a double block also but does not show if the rigging line goes down to a he deck. The instructions have a parrel on the he yard so I assume it can be raised and lowered like the fore and main yards. I am stumped. Your help, as always, would be appreciated. Bill
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So Marc you would just leave it alone? I know with other things the more you mess with it the worse it is going to get.
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Thanks Ian. I appreciate your comments. I do have one little area of disappointment I can’t get right. My wife tells me is my OCD. If you look at one of the photos that shows a side profile, maybe the next to last photo. Zoom in on the foremast shroud chains. You will notice two dark spots between the 6th and 7th preventer plate. I had to move the 6th chain and plate slightly forward to maintain the straight line of the shroud from the mast top down through the channel to the top of the plate. Before I did that the visual line of the chain and plate hooked a bit toward the stern of the ship. After I pulled the nails to move the plate I had two nail holes I had to fill. A short piece of tooth pick glued in worked perfectly. Unfortunately no matter what I do I can not get the tiny plug to stain the same as the planking. I know from years of woodworking that end grain of a piece of wood stained darker than side grain. I guess that is the issue here.
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Most of the various backstays now in place. Still need to add the mizzen backstay and the topgallant backstay for the fire and main mast. For whatever reason OcCre does not address the top gallant backstays. They are shown in the AOTS so I will fashion and add them as well
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