Matrim

Hi Nazir,
 
1) The pear version (the X letter in the reference) of the Avos does not differ much from the non-pear version except for the material. But IF there is also a
letter N (N - for nails) letter in the reference, that means that there are also nails engraved on the planking, making the planking process much more difficult.
If you are a newbie, I suppose it is worth leaning to the non-nailed version. Also, the N-version is also not very widely available.
 
2) For the instruments it is necessary to have different small drill bits and a drill (a hand one is ok).
 
3) The main thing about selecting the right ship to build is that you should like it. You can consider other ships from Master-Korabel, I belive Ages of Sail carries
them. For example MK0401 Phoenix has also a complete set of building videos with English subtitles (voice in Russian):
 
 
 

Hi 
 
Just saying hello.  Pretty new to building wooden stuff but have been doign plastic things for a while.  This sitting at home all day has given me plenty of time, I've wanted to have a go at a wooden ship for a while and thought it was a good time to start.  
 
Started an 18th century longboat a few weeks ago and just finished it
 

 
 
Not the greatest picture but it serves.  Just about to start on my second boat which is a Lady Nelson
 

Bob Cleek, thank you for the info, it had been helpful and appreciated.

Yes, exactly. For a 4mm plank width at the maximum beam, the tapering might be a bit tedious, but given the hull shapes of large vessels, as opposed to small craft, the tapering would be slight and generally at the ends of the vessel, particularly the bows. Remember when modeling that there is a scale to the length of planking as well as to its width. Plank stock isn't ever much more than 24 feet long in real life, given the limitations of tree size and handling. Given a scale plank width of 4mm at the maximum beam, there would be a lot of full length unspiled 4mm planks amidships, so that makes an easier job of it for the planker. (There are also standards for the spacing of plank butts which must be followed for an accurate scale planking job.) Keep in mind also that if the average plank width admidships is 4mm, when planking properly, there will be planks which may need to be wider than the average 4mm plank width to make everything come together without the need for "stealers." Kit manufacturers provide a bunch of pre-cut, square, finished on all four sides, strips for "planking." That stock isn't going to be suitable for all the planking at the size provided because planks aren't square.
 
You can find instructions for laying out plank in the "articles" section of the forum, so I won't repeat them here. However, if you lay out your planking at stem, stern, and each station (or perhaps every other, or even every three, frames or stations, depending upon hull shape and frame spacing,) You'll see that there's not much plank shaping to be done in the "wide open spaces" amidships.
 
If you divide the plank end widths equally at the bows, you should get a fair run on your plank seams and not end up trying to bend a "hook" in your plank seams. And sometimes plank width divisions vary, depending upon hull shape. A band of narrower planks at the turn of the bilge and wider planks (called "broads") in runs over "flat" areas is not uncommon. (In the drawing of the period planked hull below, note the "broads" below the turn of the bilge and running up to the stern post.) Planks in real life are gotten out of wider stock than the average plank width at the maximum beam. Plank stock in full size construction is often "flitch cut," meaning that it is cut as a rough slab sawn from the log, leaving the bark attached. These "flitches" are often slightly curved, as the log grew, which permits sawing out the curved plank shape to make best use of the run of the grain and lumber available. Planks are never bent across their width in full size construction, which is pretty much impossible anyway. Sometimes, a plank will be a bit "shy" and the plankers will "edge set" it by wedging it into place against its mate to get a tight seam, but edge-setting is a sign of poor fitting (which introduces strains on fasteners which can then let go) and not considered "best practices." Specifications sometimes go so far as to state, "no plank shall be edge set." When modelling with small stock of a species which will tolerate such bending, considerable stock can be saved by bending scale planks across their width to simulate what would have been a "dear" (costly) plank that in real life would have had to be cut from a very wide flitch, leaving a lot of wasted wood. That's the genius in Chuck Passaro's edge bending technique described in his great videos on the subject. Even with Chuck's method, though, some planks are going to require their own unique shape.
 
The smaller the boat, the more the plank shape differences are exaggerated. The below illustration shows the plank shapes needed to plank the hull illustrated. Note that the sheer plank shape colored white is actually wider at its ends than at its middle. In your planking job, the lack of the same sort of greater width at the stem rabet created a cumulative deficit in plank width which eventually created the upwards "hook" that became greater than you could bend your strip wood to accommodate. Trying to continue to hang 4mm wide planks in that rabet would only increase the deficit. (See the drawing of the period wooden hull planking below to see how the old-time plankers solved the problem you've got now.)
 

 
On a large wooden ship, the planking curves are not as radical, but do require curves to accommodate the shape of the hull just the same. In large construction, owing to the natural limitations of available plank stock width, "hooked," "doubler," or "stealer" planks are used to plank wider spaces than the available stock permits being gotten out of a single flitch. If a model is to show the plank seams, it must be planked as was its prototype. (Of course, if the plank seams are to be filled and the hull sanded fair and painted, it doesn't matter what the planking run looks like.) Look carefully at the plank seams in the bow and stern quarter of the below illustration to see the use of "hooked," "doubler," or "stealer" planks. (There's a larger picture and good planking instructions in the attached link.)
 

 
 
 
https://www.modelerscentral.com/blog/planking-tips-for-building-a-model-ship/
 
Don't let this discourage you. Kit manufacturers have been frustrating modelers with strip wood "planking" since kits were invented.  
 
 

Mtaylor, I tried that yesterday but I was a bit frustrated so I will give it another go.

Bob Clerk, how would you spile a 4mm plank? Are you referring to the tapering to the widths calculated for each station?

The problem that I see is that it's walnut.  Not very flexible and with a lot of grain.  Typical kit wood.  From the hull photo the other day, you should probably use the recommended drop plank.

I wonder about the planking stock you are using too. Quite apart from the wood species (some being bendier than others) if it is 0.5mm thick it may well be peeled veneer, rather than sawn veneer. The problem with peeled veneer is that the peeling process (imagine a giant plane) creates a "tight" surface and a "loose" surface. The loose surface contains lots of transverse micro-cracks, which might increase it's breakability.

Store-bought or kit-supplied strip wood isn't "pre-cut planking." Each plank must be spiled (its shape developed and cut to shape) before it's hung. You can get away hanging strips like you were hanging siding on a flat house wall for some distance, depending upon the shape of the hull, but the error is cumulative, as you've now discovered. Hanging un-shaped strip wood on a hull shape as you've done will always result in the problem you are now having. The wood breaks because it has to. It won't break if it is shaped to fit properly. 
 
Sometimes you can economize on wood by heat-bending a piece of strip wood across its width, as in the videos by Chuck Passaro above. Those "edge-set" planks still must  be spiled to ensure that the plank widths are correct at each station and bow and stern such that the curve of the seam is fair. Watch the videos and then read the planking tutorials on the forum's "Articles Database." 

Have you taken a look at edge bending the planks? I believe it addresses this situation very well.
 
 

Hi Gremreeper - Unfortunately I don't think there is a magic, secret solution to your problem.  Wood strip, even as thin as 0.5mm just wont really bend in multiple directions readily, you don't mention whether you have tried soaking the planks or not, if not, then worth a try.  Other than that, I think CaptPoison's suggestion to use a drop plank terminating in the area of the bulge is something worth pursuing.  Another option would be to try and first heat bend a strip using a hairdryer to give a strip a slight curve across the width of the plank, and then try to fit on the curve of the hull, this may be sufficient to prevent breakage.
 
And, if you haven't already, strongly recommend reading the planking tutorials as they are pretty comprehensive and provide great information on approaching this tricky step.

I have attached two pictures; on showing where I am at now and the problem I have. The second picture shows what I am thinking about doing. 
Basically my problem is bending the .5mm strips so much and not breaking them. Any suggestions, ideas or comments are welcome.

If you see the marks that you have made, the measurements are different (from high to low towards the bow), unfortunately the way you have done it, if you don't want to start again, to save the work you should cut the planks as they get closer to the bow in an almost triangular shape ..
If you see the line in black that would be the way to continue and thus be able to place them without breaking planks.
 
Another method would be to use drop plank (Chuck's image for his Winchelsea) as shown in the image or use the fan for planking.


plankingfan.pdf

Hi David,
 
I assume you are referring to the shrouds. These were made up in pairs by doubling a suitable length of rope leaving enough lenght to tie in the deadeyes. The centre portion was normally served then the two legs lashed together leaving a loop sufficient to fit over the mast head. They were always fitted in the following sequence :- first pair starboard,second pair port,third pair starboard and so on. 
 
Hope this answers your query,have fun.
 
Dave 

If an uneven set of shrouds (say 5 shrouds per side - 2 pairs and a single) the last leg (sometimes called a Swifter) had an eye or Cont splice in the middle of the length, which is sufficient to be passed around the deadeye either side and seized back on itself), with the eye passed over the masthead.  The first /leading leg of each shroud set was usually served all the way down to minimize wear-and-tare from the sails/bolt ropes rubbing on them.  The pairs were rigged as described by Dave.
 
So, for this example, you would have two pairs of shrouds per side, each pair would have been doubled and throat seized around the mast head, a single leg with the Cont splice (middled) was passed over the mashead as the after shroud legs.  The ratlin' was then applied depending on the period in which the ship was built. 
 
To get a good fit for the seizing/loop, to keep the seizing close to the masthead, use an off cut of the same diameter dowel placed in a piece of scrap to tie them off the model, then fit the pairs etc in the correct sequence as described by Dave. There are some good tips and videos available in this forum / You Tube etc to show how to do seizings (if you need them).
 
cheers
 
Pat

The Life and Letter of Emma Hamilton
Hugh Tours
Frontline Books 2020
Hardback: $30.95   £20.00 – 286 pages – Non-Fiction
Order: https://www.pen-and-sword.co.uk/The-Life-and-Letters-of-Emma-Hamilton-Hardback/p/17132  and also various book sellers
 

 
This is not a 'new' book but a reprint of a book first published in 1963. It is a useful republish though as copies of the original are rare and the scholarship is excellent. The author minimises interpretation and instead includes a wide range of the extant letters in their entirety as opposed to the (unfortunately common perhaps) alternative of selectively quoting - often in an attempt to demonise or glorify. Therefore you get a good sense of the woman her life and the people in her life. He often provides rolling conversations and many letters from other people who had encountered Emma this giving some interesting counterpoints to some of the more established narratives.
 
Naturally Nelson features heavily near to the end more so because she did not destroy his letters whereas he assiduously did so to hers and he does not come across particularly well. Firstly the dalliance in Naples for less than decent military reasons then the 'I know you have unimpeachable honour' is opposed by the thought of Nelson having a child with the same woman whilst married to another and the fact he often rages at the thought of other men approaching Emma and her succumbing (whereas naturally if she had had that honour then there would have been nothing to worry about?). Different times now of course and people would not even blink at such an event but the reactions exposed give good insights into the state of mind and sometimes the lies we tell ourselves.
 
The book provides a lot of information and gives a good example of who Emma was, how she (Eventually) excelled in the world, caught a succession of admirers before Nelson and then saw her life collapse into ruins after his death. For anyone interested in Nelson, Emma or general Georgian society it is recommended.
 
 

The Life and Letter of Emma Hamilton
Hugh Tours
Frontline Books 2020
Hardback: $30.95   £20.00 – 286 pages – Non-Fiction
Order: https://www.pen-and-sword.co.uk/The-Life-and-Letters-of-Emma-Hamilton-Hardback/p/17132  and also various book sellers
 

 
This is not a 'new' book but a reprint of a book first published in 1963. It is a useful republish though as copies of the original are rare and the scholarship is excellent. The author minimises interpretation and instead includes a wide range of the extant letters in their entirety as opposed to the (unfortunately common perhaps) alternative of selectively quoting - often in an attempt to demonise or glorify. Therefore you get a good sense of the woman her life and the people in her life. He often provides rolling conversations and many letters from other people who had encountered Emma this giving some interesting counterpoints to some of the more established narratives.
 
Naturally Nelson features heavily near to the end more so because she did not destroy his letters whereas he assiduously did so to hers and he does not come across particularly well. Firstly the dalliance in Naples for less than decent military reasons then the 'I know you have unimpeachable honour' is opposed by the thought of Nelson having a child with the same woman whilst married to another and the fact he often rages at the thought of other men approaching Emma and her succumbing (whereas naturally if she had had that honour then there would have been nothing to worry about?). Different times now of course and people would not even blink at such an event but the reactions exposed give good insights into the state of mind and sometimes the lies we tell ourselves.
 
The book provides a lot of information and gives a good example of who Emma was, how she (Eventually) excelled in the world, caught a succession of admirers before Nelson and then saw her life collapse into ruins after his death. For anyone interested in Nelson, Emma or general Georgian society it is recommended.
 
 

The Life and Letter of Emma Hamilton
Hugh Tours
Frontline Books 2020
Hardback: $30.95   £20.00 – 286 pages – Non-Fiction
Order: https://www.pen-and-sword.co.uk/The-Life-and-Letters-of-Emma-Hamilton-Hardback/p/17132  and also various book sellers
 

 
This is not a 'new' book but a reprint of a book first published in 1963. It is a useful republish though as copies of the original are rare and the scholarship is excellent. The author minimises interpretation and instead includes a wide range of the extant letters in their entirety as opposed to the (unfortunately common perhaps) alternative of selectively quoting - often in an attempt to demonise or glorify. Therefore you get a good sense of the woman her life and the people in her life. He often provides rolling conversations and many letters from other people who had encountered Emma this giving some interesting counterpoints to some of the more established narratives.
 
Naturally Nelson features heavily near to the end more so because she did not destroy his letters whereas he assiduously did so to hers and he does not come across particularly well. Firstly the dalliance in Naples for less than decent military reasons then the 'I know you have unimpeachable honour' is opposed by the thought of Nelson having a child with the same woman whilst married to another and the fact he often rages at the thought of other men approaching Emma and her succumbing (whereas naturally if she had had that honour then there would have been nothing to worry about?). Different times now of course and people would not even blink at such an event but the reactions exposed give good insights into the state of mind and sometimes the lies we tell ourselves.
 
The book provides a lot of information and gives a good example of who Emma was, how she (Eventually) excelled in the world, caught a succession of admirers before Nelson and then saw her life collapse into ruins after his death. For anyone interested in Nelson, Emma or general Georgian society it is recommended.
 
 

The Life and Letter of Emma Hamilton
Hugh Tours
Frontline Books 2020
Hardback: $30.95   £20.00 – 286 pages – Non-Fiction
Order: https://www.pen-and-sword.co.uk/The-Life-and-Letters-of-Emma-Hamilton-Hardback/p/17132  and also various book sellers
 

 
This is not a 'new' book but a reprint of a book first published in 1963. It is a useful republish though as copies of the original are rare and the scholarship is excellent. The author minimises interpretation and instead includes a wide range of the extant letters in their entirety as opposed to the (unfortunately common perhaps) alternative of selectively quoting - often in an attempt to demonise or glorify. Therefore you get a good sense of the woman her life and the people in her life. He often provides rolling conversations and many letters from other people who had encountered Emma this giving some interesting counterpoints to some of the more established narratives.
 
Naturally Nelson features heavily near to the end more so because she did not destroy his letters whereas he assiduously did so to hers and he does not come across particularly well. Firstly the dalliance in Naples for less than decent military reasons then the 'I know you have unimpeachable honour' is opposed by the thought of Nelson having a child with the same woman whilst married to another and the fact he often rages at the thought of other men approaching Emma and her succumbing (whereas naturally if she had had that honour then there would have been nothing to worry about?). Different times now of course and people would not even blink at such an event but the reactions exposed give good insights into the state of mind and sometimes the lies we tell ourselves.
 
The book provides a lot of information and gives a good example of who Emma was, how she (Eventually) excelled in the world, caught a succession of admirers before Nelson and then saw her life collapse into ruins after his death. For anyone interested in Nelson, Emma or general Georgian society it is recommended.
 
 

The Life and Letter of Emma Hamilton
Hugh Tours
Frontline Books 2020
Hardback: $30.95   £20.00 – 286 pages – Non-Fiction
Order: https://www.pen-and-sword.co.uk/The-Life-and-Letters-of-Emma-Hamilton-Hardback/p/17132  and also various book sellers
 

 
This is not a 'new' book but a reprint of a book first published in 1963. It is a useful republish though as copies of the original are rare and the scholarship is excellent. The author minimises interpretation and instead includes a wide range of the extant letters in their entirety as opposed to the (unfortunately common perhaps) alternative of selectively quoting - often in an attempt to demonise or glorify. Therefore you get a good sense of the woman her life and the people in her life. He often provides rolling conversations and many letters from other people who had encountered Emma this giving some interesting counterpoints to some of the more established narratives.
 
Naturally Nelson features heavily near to the end more so because she did not destroy his letters whereas he assiduously did so to hers and he does not come across particularly well. Firstly the dalliance in Naples for less than decent military reasons then the 'I know you have unimpeachable honour' is opposed by the thought of Nelson having a child with the same woman whilst married to another and the fact he often rages at the thought of other men approaching Emma and her succumbing (whereas naturally if she had had that honour then there would have been nothing to worry about?). Different times now of course and people would not even blink at such an event but the reactions exposed give good insights into the state of mind and sometimes the lies we tell ourselves.
 
The book provides a lot of information and gives a good example of who Emma was, how she (Eventually) excelled in the world, caught a succession of admirers before Nelson and then saw her life collapse into ruins after his death. For anyone interested in Nelson, Emma or general Georgian society it is recommended.
 
 

The Life and Letter of Emma Hamilton
Hugh Tours
Frontline Books 2020
Hardback: $30.95   £20.00 – 286 pages – Non-Fiction
Order: https://www.pen-and-sword.co.uk/The-Life-and-Letters-of-Emma-Hamilton-Hardback/p/17132  and also various book sellers
 

 
This is not a 'new' book but a reprint of a book first published in 1963. It is a useful republish though as copies of the original are rare and the scholarship is excellent. The author minimises interpretation and instead includes a wide range of the extant letters in their entirety as opposed to the (unfortunately common perhaps) alternative of selectively quoting - often in an attempt to demonise or glorify. Therefore you get a good sense of the woman her life and the people in her life. He often provides rolling conversations and many letters from other people who had encountered Emma this giving some interesting counterpoints to some of the more established narratives.
 
Naturally Nelson features heavily near to the end more so because she did not destroy his letters whereas he assiduously did so to hers and he does not come across particularly well. Firstly the dalliance in Naples for less than decent military reasons then the 'I know you have unimpeachable honour' is opposed by the thought of Nelson having a child with the same woman whilst married to another and the fact he often rages at the thought of other men approaching Emma and her succumbing (whereas naturally if she had had that honour then there would have been nothing to worry about?). Different times now of course and people would not even blink at such an event but the reactions exposed give good insights into the state of mind and sometimes the lies we tell ourselves.
 
The book provides a lot of information and gives a good example of who Emma was, how she (Eventually) excelled in the world, caught a succession of admirers before Nelson and then saw her life collapse into ruins after his death. For anyone interested in Nelson, Emma or general Georgian society it is recommended.
 
 

Thanks everyone, I'm quite proud of it.
 
Y.T. ---  Plastic kits are all plastic, no wood. Where my topmasts and topgallant masts etc. were unpainted wood, I painted the plastic with a suitable light base coat colour (suitable for a pine spar) then dry-brushed sparingly with Humbrol matt khaki, then applied a coat of Humbrol satin varnish. This is one of the things I learned on Pete's web site and I was amazed at how easy it is to make plastic look like wood. I used wood dowels or bicycle spokes on the inside to stiffen them when gluing halves together.
 
As for blocks, the Heller kit does indeed supply "blocks" but they bear little resemblance to blocks.  Most people building this kit discard them and buy after-market wooden blocks. I recommend the beautiful ones from https://www.syrenshipmodelcompany.com/
 
Speaking of discarding, the Heller kit has many shortcomings which I will just mention now to forewarn potential builders:
 
It comes with two odd colours of thread in a couple of sizes, and recommends dying in tea or coffee(!?).  I discarded it and bought Amati rigging thread in about seven different diameters and two colours.  I also learned about this thread on that website. 
 
Plastic deadeyes are hard to mold.  To have the three holes, the mold must pull apart from the two faces of the deadeye, but then it is not possible to mold a groove around the circumference to encourage the shroud to stay in place. Heller did their best, adding a single ring around the circumference which prevents the thread from slipping off in one direction only. I found this impossible to rig and followed the advice on the website i.e. discard the deadeyes and buy wooden ones. I wish Heller had simply molded the deadeyes in two halves which we could glue together and save some money.
 
The kit does not include the chains for the shrouds. They show a half-assed method involving loops of thread. The solution is to buy one of Daffy's brass etch sheets which provides beautiful chains and preventers as here:

The kit lacks any means of attaching the yards to the masts. In the case of the lower yards, this is sort of ok because they were restrained by rope truss pendants which you can rig but you need to know where to add eyebolts to the deck to rig properly. For the other yards you need to make parrals of some form; see previous photos for one of mine made with small seed beads and small pieces of wood.
 
Those are the major issues.  There are others, like the difficulty painting the stern moldings and figurehead shield due to uncrisp molding, the plastic hammock stanchions with no holes which are best replaced with Daffy's etch, the complete lack of guide pins when gluing things like cannon barrels and spars, horrendously awful rigging notes in the instructions (buy a book), and for the completely detail-oriented the erroneous deck plank shift pattern.
 
But for all that, it builds up into what is widely considered the finest and most accurate plastic ship model on the market.

The Trafalgar Chronicles  # 4
Peter Hore -Editor
Seaforth Publishing, 2019
Softbound: $20.00 – 239 pages – Non-Fiction
Order: https://www.pen-and-sword.co.uk/  and also various book sellers
 

 
 
This is the fourth in series of The Trafalgar Chronicles from the The 1805 Club and is themed on the people of Nelson’s time, his friends and his contemporaries, the battles they fought, as well as the technical and scientific changes taking place at the time.  The 24 chapters are well referenced with footnotes supporting each chapter.  This volume also contains 7 pages of color plates.  Through out maps, drawings, and artwork along with a few plans where warranted.
 
CONTENTS :
President’s Foreword – Admiral Sir Jonathon Band
Editor’s Foreword – Peter Hore
The Decaturs, the Lehmans, and the Privateers – John Lehman
The Summer Before Trafalgar: The Journal of Benjamin Sillman – Susan K. Smith
Nelson was an Irishman – Das Grant
Sin Bo’suns in Nelson’s Ships – Lynda Sebbage
The Role of Women in London’s Sailortown in the 18th Century – Kenneth Cozens & Derek Morris
North America’s Seafaring Cities – Harold E. “Pete” Stark
Loyalist Mariners during the American Revolution – Tom Allen
Admiral George Augustus Westphal – Tom S. Iampietro
Admiral Philip Wetphal – T. Jeremy Waters
Admiral of the Fleet Sir Provo William Perry Wallis – Jeremy B. Utt
Lieutenant Richard Bulkeley – Jack R. Satterfield
Admiral Sir Manley Dixon, KCB – Andy Zellers Frederick
Rear-Admiral Thomas Tudor Tucker – Andrew a Zellers Frederick
Captain William Gordon Rutherfor, CB – Anna Kiefer
Rear-Admiral John Peyton: A Personal and Professional Re-Appraisal  – Barry Jolly
The Beach of the English Dead: Remembering Captain Conway Shipley – Rui Ribolhos Filipe
Russian on the Tagus – Mark West
Bringing Up Franklin’s Baby: A Short Account of the Advent of the Balloon and It’s Adaption to Naval Warfar – Anthony Cross
The Carronade: A Revolution in Naval Warfare – Anthony Bruce
The Battle of St. George’s Cay, 10 September 1798 – Michael Harris
Captain John Perkins – Douglas Hamilton
Contributor’s Biographies
Color Plates
Notes
 
REVIEW
When I first received this book and then read the two forewords, I was worried it was going to be a bit stuffy, perhaps pompous even.  Not so.  Overall, I found the book fascinating and, for the most part, very readable. The articles give a powerful insight into some well-known persons and some not so well known as well as several battles and other events that may not be well known to many readers.  There is so much in this book that I am putting it on my bookshelf with my other books to re-read it again.
 

It was my first model too.. I enjoyed it and it was well within a beginners capabilities (with minimal kit)

The Captain wouldn't work for my RN frigate but the crew certainly could. Another reason to go 1:48 as well..