allanyed
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Everything posted by allanyed
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Yves I THINK the most important thing about our own models is that we enjoy the entire process right up to and including end result which could include the research as well as the building for some. The learning process is never ending as I have learned here at MSW. Hardly a day goes by that there is not something new in "how to" or history, or off topic fun here. Allan -
Just curious, but how old is the original material? If it is very old, I would think color matching will be impossble. Allan
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This is very confusing. You say liners, but what do you mean, cruise ships or something else? HMS refers to RN vessels, not private merchant vessels such as freighters, liners, etc. What year?? There were no boats designated as life boats before 1790. From a few seconds of searching this popped up. The first boat specialised as a lifeboat was tested on the River Tyne in England on January 29, 1790, built by Henry Greathead. The design won a competition organised by the private Law House committee, though William Wouldhave and Lionel Lukin both claimed to be the inventor of the first lifeboat. There are images on the net as well. Allan
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I am pretty sure the Bellona 1760 did not have a coppered bottom when she was launched as coppering was not standard until the late 1770s. Of course she could very well have been coppered later in life. It comes down to what era in her life that you want to represent including appropriate boats, cannon types (Armstrong/Frederick versus Blomefield) and so on. Same goes for having her name on the stern which some models show. This would be appropriate only from about 1770 to 1780. For your second planking, Chuck Passaro's write up is well worth studying for tapering and edge bending so you won't have to have the same problems as on the first layer. Allan
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Pirate, as requested above can you be more specific? There is no such thing as an HMS jolly boat or HMS long boat. The old ships (HMS Bounty, Victory, or whatever) carried a variety of boats such as cutters, long boats, launches et al depending on the era and ship but no life boats per se. They were work boats used for various tasks but none were really meant to be used as life boats as we see on vessels in later years. Certainly they could be used as such, but was not the reason they were on board. Even on ships with 5 or 6 or even 7 boats, together they did not have the capacity to act as life boats for hundreds of crew members. The long boat for HMS Medway is a better, or perhaps, the best way to go for a start. Allan
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BM Your post gave me pause so I just looked at photos of several dozen contemporary models at Preble Hall and more at RMG. I can find no rhyme or reason to the choice of colors on the furniture, or the bulwarks for that matter. Of course cost was a factor so black and red seems to be the most common colors where paint was used. There are some with hatch coamings and head ledges in natural wood, others that are black. Half the bulwarks are painted red, the remainder without paint of any color. Some have bitts and such that are predominantly red or natural, a few that are black. Some had a good amount of gold in the 17th century and into the early 18th century but this is pretty much limited to carvings. I also went back to a number of contemporary contracts and none had any mention of paint colors. What ship and year do you have in mind? Again, there does not seem to be a lot of consistency when looking at contemporary models (which more than likely have had their paint redone over the hundreds of years they have been around) so your comment on modeler's discretion, within reason, may very well be valid. Allan
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1:98 HMS Victory plans
allanyed replied to Rgpracer's topic in Building, Framing, Planking and plating a ships hull and deck
Three sources are the 100 Gun Ship Victory Anatomy of a Ship by McKay, Longridge's Anatomy of Nelson's Ships, and RMG. There are nine low res contemporary draws of Victory 1765 on the RMG Collections website, any or all of which can be downloaded for free or purchased in high resolution as well in 1:48. These can be reduced at your local printer easily if you choose to receive them electronically. https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/search/ Victory 1765 You can probably reach out to Mantua as well but they may not be as accurate as the other sources. Allan -
Untangling and rerigging or start from scratch?
allanyed replied to Rgpracer's topic in Masting, rigging and sails
Longridge's book will be a great help in many ways, including how the shrouds were paired and set over the mast, how the ratlines were done, and much more. But, as you seem to be something of a detail minded person, or dare I say a bit of a perfectionist, I would invest in a copy of David Lees' Masting and Rigging English Ships of War. There are other books that members use as well and would recommend, but this one will get right down to the circumference of every piece of rope, how they rove, and on and on. You may want to check the masts and spars against the books to be sure the ones you have are the correct size and shape as well. You can also use the Vadas spread sheet here in the articles data base to get all the sizes of masts, spars, and ropes This is based on the Lees ratios. All you have to do is check the appropriate year and size vessel, type in the scale you are working, then 51.33 (the beam of Victory) in the appropriate box and all your dimensions will come up. https://thenrg.org/resource/articles You can also go to https://thenrg.org/resources/Documents/articles/TheArtOfRigging-Steel.pdf here in the articles data base for contemporary information. Allan -
Per the earlier post, did you have a chance to research the above or try to contact Preble Hall at the Naval Academy? There are number of contemporary drawings over a span of years including the following joint type 18 pounder, circa 1790. Allan
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Eberfhard, I just found out not too far back that Adrian Caruana passed away before volume three was published. British Naval Armaments ed. Robert D. Smith may be a substitute but reviews on this book that I have seen are average at best. I have found Caruana's information to be reliable and also wish volume 3 had come out. Allan
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Chamfering Cutting Tool
allanyed replied to Dave_E's topic in Building, Framing, Planking and plating a ships hull and deck
Dave, A lot of builders here also scrape the entire hull and the decks before final sanding as well. Allan -
Pirate, this book is for sale as are the Caruana books, the information is not available for free as far as I know as it they have copyright protection. Allan
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Chamfering Cutting Tool
allanyed replied to Dave_E's topic in Building, Framing, Planking and plating a ships hull and deck
Dave, The angle of the chamfer on every plank is dynamic but the tool has a fixed angle each time it is set so the angle will be wrong except for one small part of the plank edge if it used along the entire length of the plank. The same issue applies to the angle of the rabbet. A stiff back razor or any other hand held scraper blade can have the angle adjusted as you move along the plank when done by hand. Sanding will probably work, but for me, scraping is easier to control. The ROUGH sketch below explains it better (I hope). Allan
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Edward There were changes to the capstans themselves at the time of your ship. I have no contemporary information on German ships, but about 1670 the forward capstans on British two deckers (from Deane's Doctrine 1670) had a single head capstan on the lower gun deck aft of the main mast and a double capstan near midships with one on the lower gun deck without a trundle head for bars and one on the upper gun deck that did have a drum head and openings for bars, quite different than what the kit drawing shows. I am not sure if a viol line (something of a predecessor to the messenger) was used at that time or if ships of your size had the hawser go directly around the lower deck capstan. Hopefully some members here have contemporary information on the proper rigging of the lines themselves. Allan
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Welcome Mr. Pirate. Just curious but Is NYS New York State or somewhere else? Happy New Year to you Allan
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The best sources for details I know of are in Lavery's Arming and Fitting English Men of War and Volume 2 of Caruana's The History of English Sea Ordnance. I am sure there are members here with lot more information on free sources that you can use. Keep in mind there are differences between Melville's initial design built by the Carron company to those in the 19th century, especially the carriages. Do a search on the RMG Collections site to find contemporary drawings and model photos that may be of some help to you. These are low resolution free of charge, but you can purchase high resolution versions from them if you wish. There are several carronades at the entrance of Preble Hall in Annapolis so they may have drawings as well including the one below. Allan
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Thanks Brian! I was able to finallly connect a top social media guru that I golf with (he usually kicks my butt) with Adam and is following up this month to see how to get the project moving forward more rapidly. Tell your friends thank you for signing up as well! Allan
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Happy New Year Edward, Can you tell us which Wappen von Hamburg is this supposed to be as there were four from the 17th and 18th centuries, 1669, 1686, 1722, and 1740? The information on the site given at Texas A&M is probably inappropriate depending on which one you are building as messengers and nippers were not used until about 1740. (Harland Capstans and Windlasses p.66 and Lavery Arming and Fitting English Ships of War p. 47) Cheers Allan
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Accurate copper plating
allanyed replied to allanyed's topic in Building, Framing, Planking and plating a ships hull and deck
I apologize for beating a dead horse, but to me the Amati plating is another example of a kit material in which little research was done by the kit manufacturer. Assuming the plates are scale 48" long the nail dents are 1.5" in diameter where as they would actually be 0.5" thus basically invisible to the casual observer. As others have commented, at this small scale maybe these nail patterns are best left off altogether. I see how the roller idea could work if making sure the pin pricks are sufficiently small and accurately spaced. Thanks to everyone for their input, it is greatly appreciated. Allan -
A warm welcome to MSW Jason, PLEASE leave your EOD experience in a closet because there are times for many newbies and experienced builders alike when the thought of blowing up project comes to mind. Allan
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Welcome to MSW!! You now have 41,000 new friends and potential guides on your journey. Allan
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Accurate copper plating
allanyed replied to allanyed's topic in Building, Framing, Planking and plating a ships hull and deck
Gregory, Honestly, without seeing a model up front and personal with the plating, I am not sure one way or the other would look better or worse. Another good reason for POF and leaving off the planking below the waterline as was so often done on contemporary models 😀 Allan -
Dave, I was confused on what was what as well, but Phil helped me a lot in his responses on this very discussion back in March. He provided some really good details including the below based on information from Lever's The Young Sea Officer's Sheet Anchor
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Accurate copper plating
allanyed replied to allanyed's topic in Building, Framing, Planking and plating a ships hull and deck
Hi Gregory, The overlap is detailed in Goodwin's research and is pretty clear in the Connie plating photo below. I know it is not good to say " always" , so maybe some shipwrights did not over lap them. If the Connie plates did not overlap there would have to be twin rows of nails on the edges but there is only a single row all around as the nails go through both plates at the overlap. Happy New Year to you and yours! Allan
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Hi Dave, You bring up an interesting subject. Doing some independent research on items like this rather than relying on information from a kit might be a good idea and probably fun to boot 😀. The replica of Endeavour does not carry stunsails from the topsails yards. The items on the channels are probably the lower stunsail booms. In addition to booms there are also stunsail yards to consider. Lees goes into great detail on the booms, yards, sails and rigging for the stunsails, but my apologies, way too much to copy here. Allan
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