allanyed
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Accurate copper plating
allanyed replied to allanyed's topic in Building, Framing, Planking and plating a ships hull and deck
Thanks Druxey, I had no idea about the diagonal pattern. Mark, thank you as well. Actually I have no need on my current project, but was more interested in seeing if there was a source for those building models that would have plating (circa 1778 and beyond) as the plating that comes with the kits that I have seen in photos and in person are so unrealistic as to ruin an otherwise beautiful piece of work. I realize it is "to each his own" in the end, but some folks might be interested to know there are alternatives, so thanks again for your lead. I did look up Caldercraft/Jokita and Blue Jacket and I am sorry to say their plating is pretty far off the mark. Below is what Caldercraft/Jokita shows on their website and then I manipulated their plates to show what it would look like if properly overlapped. On the sketch I included the diagonal row of nails mentioned by Druxey and hope I got it right. The full jumble of rivets all over the plates on both the Jokita and Bluejacket plates probably never was actually done. Allan
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Who makes realistic copper plate material for ship bottoms for commonly used scales? Based on the build logs here at MSW, so far, I cannot find any kit manufacturer that supplies realistic plates. The plates are usually too large in general and always appear to have bumps that represent rivets or bolts which were never actually used. From a bit of research it appears, for British ships at least, the full plates were a nominal 48" X 15" and overlapped 1 1/2" so the 1/4" nails, (not rivets or bolts,) were hammered through two plates where they overlapped, both horizontally and vertically. The head of the nail was about 1/2" and the hammering would result in small indentations, not raised bumps, too small to see on scales smaller than 1:48 and even at 1:48 would only be about 0.01 in diameter. There were typically 16 nails in the long sides and 4 or 5 on the short sides. It seems plain copper plates with no nails would be a better way to go. Any information on realistic materials would be appreciated. The above information is from Goodwin's Construction and Fitting of English Ships of War, pp 226-7 Allan
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Hi Jim and Jeff, Jeff, you mention rivets but unfortunately most kits plating is wrong as rivets were never used. Rather, nails were used with the dents going in, not sticking out. The photos in Jim's post above appear to have huge bumps sticking out. From Goodwin's The Construction and Fitting of English Man of War, pages 226-227 the plates were predominantly 4' 0" X 15" (0.75" X0.23" at 1:64) with a 1.5" overlap both vertically and horizontally. They were attached to the hull with sixteen 1/4" diameter nails horizontally and 5 or 6 vertically. The nail heads would be about 0.008" at 1:64 scale. It may be better that the nails are not even shown at this scale as they would be barely visible, if at all. I realize it is likely a kit error, but plain copper tape can be purchased to replace the plates from the kit for a more realistic look. Allan
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Roger, very clever!!! We did this with bags of tent worms but had to run into the woods if the car stopped to raise some Hell with us. Hopefully the grandkids will look at the photo many years from now and show their own kids what great grandpa was willing to try. The green husks come off with a little effort but I defy anyone to crack the inner shell with a nutcracker. Two or three nuts will keep anyone busy for hours. I decent size vice does the trick though. (Chestnuts are easier) Allan
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I agree with Eberhard. Clean surface and totally dust free environment, no wool sweaters (learned this from an esteemed builder/MSW member quite a few years ago). Spray paint in light coats (four or five) and if needed steel wool between coats, then several clear topcoats . Light spray coats should yield a flat surface with no bumps or runs if done correctly. NEVER start or stop the spray on the model, but rather off to the side a few inches when beginning and ending the movement across the model. Of course spray methods need taping and such to block any overspray. Allan
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This is more of "what if" post as I think getting this wood from my new found source could be problematic. The kids and grandkids took us to a dog park in Leavenworth, KS over the holidays and it was in a grove of eastern black walnut trees. The ground was littered with thousands of nuts. VERY hard to get open, but when you do, tasty as can be. These are walnut trees, not the trees from which the brittle grainy stuff is harvested for kits. Pics of part of the grove and this old man up one of the trees with two of the grandkids. Proved a point that one is never too old to do stupid things like climbing trees. Allan
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Bill, I don't know about the Benjamin Latham but there are a lot of wonderful photos as well as drawings of the schooner Effie M. Morrisey on the Library of Congress website that may be of some help to you. I would suggest you get a copy of the American Fishing Schooners 1825-1935 by Chappelle. I find it a pain to use at times as there is no true index, but it is far superior to the McManus book regarding details. Allan
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Greetings to MSW/NRG Members and All Ships at Sea
allanyed replied to Michael Scarborough's topic in New member Introductions
I am EXTREMELY happy that you posted this and VERY impressed. One of our illustrious members and well-known ship modeler and author was a set designer and will enjoy seeing this. It is amazing how diversified the backgrounds are for our membership here at MSW. THANK YOU FOR POSTING THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Alsln -
Greetings to MSW/NRG Members and All Ships at Sea
allanyed replied to Michael Scarborough's topic in New member Introductions
Michael, I look forward to your videos and of course y our build log! I will do some researching on Weill's music in the meantime. Hope it is not as heavy as Wagner!!! Allan -
Greetings to MSW/NRG Members and All Ships at Sea
allanyed replied to Michael Scarborough's topic in New member Introductions
First, welcome!! Second, WOW on the models and such!!! Third, SUPER WOW on singing opera!!!! Tenor? If you have video of any of your own performances please do post. I had to go watch one of my favorite arias once you posted as it has been a while. La Boheme BEST ARIAS - Montserrat Caballe and Jose Carreras in Barcelona 1980 - Bing video Allan -
Treenailing at 1:48 can be a beautiful thing or as stated above it could look like the hull has a bad case of the measles. When your drill bits are in hand, drill some test pieces. Rub a touch of PVA in the holes and sand by hand or with a light touch of a vibrating mouse type sander to fill the holes. Let it cure then apply whatever finish you plan to use, be it an oil or poly or whatever. I have done this with castello and it give a very subtle look such that you can see them, but they do not jump out at you. I would suggest bamboo which I love as the color is also very subtle, for castello and boxwood, but may be too stark of a contrast to cherry. Looking forward to your test results. Allan
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Ditto to Kirby's post plus David Antscherl's article on spiling planks. Study a couple contemporary planking expansion drawings which are easily found on the Wiki Commons site and at RMG Collections site. For what NOT to do, look at build logs here at MSW as some show what happens when following kit directions that often provide other than realistic results. Happy New YEar Allan
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Wecome JGR! Where are you in FL? Happy New Year! Allan
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Topmasts and Topgallant masts vs Lower Mast
allanyed replied to Tommy Vercetti's topic in Masting, rigging and sails
Tommy, What ship(s) and year(s)? In general, Lees and Anderson per Druxey's post above are the best books that I have found for the 17th century. I have seen a number of contemporary drawings of masts and yards on the RMG Collections site as well. I am not sure if any go as far back as the 17th century but a search on their collections site should turn up anything appropriate. Allan -
AHB The wedge idea is super, thank for sharing. Personally I do not agree that using white PVA on rigging is useless as I have never had an issue with it holding fast rigging seizings, knots and clinches on cleats, pins, etc. over the past 45 years. This includes one model that I built in the late '70s that has made numerous moves around the US over those years and is still in great condition. From comments here at MSW, CA may be OK for some things, but it seems that it is not such a good idea for rigging based on their experience. I do wonder if the material of the rope being used makes a difference though in the type adhesive that works best in these situations. Thanks again for sharing your idea on the wedge. Allan
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Welcome to MSW Kenn, It would be a polite thing if you would post an introduction in the new member forum here at MSW. The subject was concerning clothing for marines aboard ship over 200 years ago, so are you saying Quaker Marine store has vintage clothing? You make no mention on where the store is located. Merry Christmas and happy 2022 Allan
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Newspaper, Welcome aboard. Been a long time since I read or heard much in Afrikaans, (55 years) and this brings back fond memories of Capetown, P. E., (with a half day side trip to Cape St. Francis to check out the surfing thanks to an incentive after watching Bruce Brown's movie), East London and Durban. Beautiful country. Merry Christmas to you and yours. Allan
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Jeff This looks like it is a good quality kit and your workmanship looks to be great. The only glaring oddity I see are the gratings which I am guessing is a mistake on the plans. The battens are running athwartships with the ledges running fore and aft rather than the other way around. I look forward to your next update, Allan
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Walrus Fear not on the last strakes. If you spile the planks as described here at MSW by David Antscherl or heat bend the planks as described here at MSW by Chuck Passaro you should not have any tricky issues and certainly no need for clamps if the planks are done properly. Allan
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Chief, THAT was funny. It happens to all of us, but it is never planned. Just as I was taking some of the last photos for the volume 2 manuscript of Euryalus , she got bumped and rolled off the photo table onto the concrete floor. A few small things snapped of and it took some hours to fix what happened in a few seconds so caution is key at all times. Allan
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Welcome Ray!!! Why are there so many retired military in Kansas??? Our youngest son retired in Lansing, KS as an O-5 and is equal to or outranked by nearly every neighbor on his block who are also all retired and still under 60 years old. Heading there this week for Christmas so make for some good weather for us!!! Again, welcome to MSW Allan
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HMS VICTORY 1765 by albert - 1/48
allanyed replied to albert's topic in - Build logs for subjects built 1751 - 1800
You can figure the scale pretty easily. Measure the maximum breadth midships or the length on the gun deck. It will not be exact, but should be pretty close for figuring the scale. Beam of the Victory is 52 feet 10 inches and the length on the gun deck (rabbet to rabbet) is 186 feet (2,232 inches) . For a scale of 1:96 the length on the gundeck would be 23 1/4", for 1:64 it would be 34 7/8", for 1:48 it would be 46 1/2" etc. Allan -
Can you please post in English? Many thanks Allan
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Dave, To make life easier, cannon that are out of sight need not be rigged, it is up to you. Even contemporary models are often missing rigging on cannon, and often the cannon are not even included. Two of many examples at Preble Hall follow. Allan
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Hi Lieste For 42 pounders, from the same sources as above. 1723 1743 6" 7" Thanks for sharing about the British replacing 42 pounders with 32 pounders during peacetime, this was new information for me. I would like to learn more about this as it is actually very interesting so if you would be so kind, can you share your source for this? Thanks again, your help on this is appreciated. Allan
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