allanyed

SOS

I just went to the RMG Collections site and in the search line I typed compass.  They indicate over 2000 images are available.  Attached is the first one I found for the 18th century with a compass bowl of circa 1720 and the card being circa 1760.  I am sure you will find more in that file.

Allan

To add a bit more, when spiled and pre-bent to the approximate bend of the hull shape, the planks will stay in place using any aliphatic (carpenter's) glue after a minute or less of holding it in place tight against the bulkheads and adjacent plank with light finger pressure.  The planks were normally about 30 feet long so even at 1/4 inch scale that is only about 8 inches long. PVA glues such as Elmer's white glue is not a great way to go for planking, in my personal experience.  Don't forget to bevel the edges of the planks as needed, both for inside bends such as near the stern and outside bends elsewhere.  I know "as needed" is not very definitive, but the amount of bevel varies along the length of the plank as the curves of the frames are dynamic.  I also agree with Duff that trennals are great for added strength, especially using bamboo, but tough to make to scale below 3/16". 

Allan

Wes

Please keep in mind I was referring to contemporary drawings that we had purchased from the NMM, not modern drawings.  If we had only had  "modern" drawings we probably would have defaulted to the original contract, then the tables, and probably not considered the drawings very much for dimensions,

Allan

JCF, Thanks for the reply, much appreciated.

Chuck,  Brass shim stock can be found down to 0.001 at McMaster Carr, (and probably some other places.)  I think they still have one of their DCs not far from Exit 8A off the NJTP so could be will called or at your shop in a day or 2  if shipped. 

Allan

Wes,

I have absolutely no experience with US ships other than Gloucester schooners so cannot comment with any authority..  I suspect, there were ship designers and shipwrights from England or trained by British designers and builders, thus may have followed practices from England.  If that is the case, I don't think you would be far off in using the scantlings in the book.   Keep in mind, if you look at contemporary drawings of British ships, there may be differences in the drawings from the scantlings, including Establishment scantlings. When Wayne Kempson and I worked on the Euryalus project he was continually finding differences in the scantlings between the drawings, the contract, and Steel.   We defaulted to the drawings, then the contract, then the scantlings in the tables.   The differences were minimal and hardly noticeable, if at all, in a model, but there were differences to be sure. 

I know this is not really answering your question, but I would feel safe using the scantlings

Allan

Russ,

Very nice!

JCF, the time to make these is indeed long, but not the problem. Making them so they are consistent in appearance across 50 to 100 blocks is my problem.   I am  looking for ideas that others may have tried and wound up with blocks that looked as they should, even at the smallest sizes.

Chuck, couple months probably. 

Thanks to all

Allan

Rick

I do not know about Australian but they may well have followed British building guidelines at that time.  According to James Lees, for British ships, for the main and fore masts from 1670 to 1773, 15/16 inch per 3 feet in length.  For the main and fore masts from 1773 to 1794, 9/10 inch per 3 feet in length.  After that, 1 inch per 3 feet in length.  For the Mizzen, from 1670 to 1711 15/16" per 3 feet of length, from 1711 to 1719 2/3 inch per 3 feet in length, 1719 depends on rate.  Fifth rates for examples 2/3 inch per 3 feet in length, on 6th rates, 8/13" per 3 feet in length.  1773 - 6/9 " per 3 feet.   Lengths are determined in a more complex way, described in detail on page 183 in Lees Masting and Rigging. He gives formulas for the upper masts as well as spars. 

Allan

Hi Russ

The current build of the Effie M. Morrissey /Ernestina is 1/4" scale.  The blocks range from 5" to 12" (just under 1/8" to 1/4" long shells.) Most are singles and doubles with a couple triples in the largest sizes.     I have recently written to the Ernestina.Org group and hope to hear from them on rigging sizes, but in the meantime I am using the list of blocks from Chappelle for the Columbia as a guide.

Allan

I have made blocks with internal iron strops a number of times but am not  really satisfied with any of the methods tried,  especially when making the smallest ones.  I have made them using laminations with the strop laid in, that being close to the method used in full size,  and from solid pieces drilled to take the strop on each side of the sheave opening(s).   I have drilled in the top (and bottom when needed) to take an eye which is totally wrong but passable at the smallest sizes once the eye is shaped a bit so as to not be round, but rather u-shaped or triangular.  If anyone out there has a favorite method that yields excellent looking internally stropped blocks that they would like to share, I am all ears and eyes.   

Thanks in advance.

Allan

John,

Very nice metal work indeed.  What vessel and scale?

Thanks

Allan

About time!!!!!   I am very happy to see this log, and,  using methods I had not seen in your past work.

Allan

It is so good to see these posts from those that have tried spiling and have become converts.  There are a lot of posts on clamps for planking but a properly spiled plank can be soaked and pre-bent and, once dried by whatever means is chosen, it can be held in place with finger pressure for a minute or less using an aliphatic (carpenter's) glue.   Druxey converted me years ago and I have been happy that he did so.  No pin holes and no clamp dings, especially when using softer species of wood.  I do use clamps for many things, but rarely for planking. 

Allan

Thank you for sharing.  I am not one to argue with Portia's drawings, but  have not yet seen this arrangement on a contemporary drawing or model.  It is my understanding that the AOS series of books is not without fault (as is the case with all of us mortals)

Thanks again

Allan

Arch

I did a quick search of contemporary models and I cannot find any gun ports with stops on the lintels.   The only definitive one I have found so far is in the forum here for contemporary model photos from museums that being the George, DCSO1822 and it shows no top stop.   This is only one model, so maybe  it is wrong or maybe some had them and some did not.  Could you post a photo or two of the contemporary models that you have seen that have these, I am really curious about this.   Seems there is always something to ponder.  

Thanks very much

Allan

I've attached another  sketch.  Note that there was usually no stop on the underside of the lintel, but only attached to the frames on the sides of the port and on the sill.   This was a quick sketch so if I made any mistakes, please feel free to jump in.

Allan

In addition to Steel,  Lees Masting and Rigging  is also a consideration as he makes mention that all line sizes are appropriate for all rates for all time periods in the book which is a little before 1891 for Clara May.  With only a few exceptions such as ratlines and brails which are pointed out with given dimensions, the line sizes  are given as circumferences and are proportional based on the size of the appropriate mast stay and these were found in comparison to the lower stays which in turn are given in ratio size compared to the lower masts. While this may seem daunting it is easy to get the hang of it quickly.  I rarely rig, but when I have done so, I do all the calculations and write them down then write the scale size circumference then calculate the diameter.  That was  I have an idea on what line sizes Iwill need and how much of each.  Note that you will not be able to get exact scale circumferences/diameters as there are only so many line sizes that can be purchased, but will be close.

Allan

As always, a joy to watch your work, especially the detailing.   As said above, nice selection of wood, it makes the model quite rich looking.

Allan

Small and relatively tidy ships often turn out to be the subject of the most beautiful models.  You are proving that with your build.

Allan

Sorry for the very late reply, been moving the past few weeks.  Maybe I  have missed something here, but you do not need anything more than very thin hand files and an old hacksaw blade or stiff backed razor to make molding cutters.   Even better I have used thin cutting wheels with my lathe or my Dremel, Hold the metal piece in a vice and cut or file the reverse image of what the molding is look like.  If using a hack saw blade piece heat it to cherry red and let it cool and it will be soft enough to easily file.  No need to re-harden, but if you wish to do so, reheat to cherry red and quench in oil.

Allan

I agree with David B,  The straight edge on what looks like double sided tape is something for me to remember to try.   The photography as pointed out earlier is excellent.  Thanks for continuing to share.

Allan

Did a few minutes looking up withy.  All the definitions I found say withy was made of osier or other types of willow branches.

Can't wait for the Jeopardy game show to have powder kegs as a category and a clue on withy.  I am sure that will finally be one in which I can beat the admiral.....

Allan

Price, How do you do.  

Rendered collagen from animal hides and hooves was the bond most likely originally used on those classic models we see in the museums as well as furniture and other wood projects.  I understand that it is still used in some instrument making and antique repairs, so it must be available if you want to give it a try.  Fortunately we have other choices today, as using glue from hides is difficult, smells bad, and the animal rights people would no doubt harass you and this site if you used it.  As an aside, I wonder if vegans refuse to sit on antique chairs or play a violin,  hmmmmm.

Aliphatic emulsion resins (yellow carpenter's glue) is my choice for wood, and I use polyvinyl acetate (white glue) at times when setting seizings and such in rigging.  Epoxy certainly has an important place especially for metal to wood or similar situations.  Some folks like cyanoacrylate glue, but this is not my choice, normally.  Once in a while I use it as a cheater bond to hold  tricky piece of wood in place while the aliphatic glue cures.   

Allan

Albert

Just checked into your log.  REALLY GREAT!

Allan

Per

Pages 228-229 of Lavery's Arming and Fitting give a good synopsis of the windlass.  As written by Lavery,launches, which pretty much replaced longboats on ships of 20 guns or more by 1780, had windlasses.   In addition to the windlass would often be found a davit.   Prior to the davit there would have been a lignum vitae sheave over which line would run out.   The davit and windlass combination was necessary when lifting the buoy rope in order to lift  the crown of a 3 ton anchor that had become embedded in the bottom.  No boat crew could do this without the aid of the windlass.   The davit rested on a pivot pin as shown on the photo.  Hope this helps.

Allan

Another 2 cents, maybe only a penny.  I start with an Xacto back saw cutting outside the line, then SHARP chisels and finally a file if needed.  Now, if I ever get my wish for a good milling machine, I have seen how these can be used in scarph joints and more, but I suspect the set up time is longer than doing a steady slow finish with chisel and file. 
Allan