allanyed

I am continuing to thoroughly enjoy your build log!

This was brought up the other day regarding the Bounty launch.... was the riser scored for the thwarts on the cutter?   

Thanks for sharing your build, the workmanship and the scaling of each part should be an inspiration for anyone wanting to build a realistic looking cutter or any ship's boat for that matter.    

Allan

Richard, I can see how forming the plates had to be difficult.  You did a great job!     I do wonder how rivets would hold in wood.  Wouldn't they quickly work loose?  For appearance it probably does not matter if the plates were bolted through the planking and wooden hawse pieces to the 10" steel reinforcing pieces that existed inboard.  Or, maybe these sheets were nailed just like was done for copper sheathing thus would have indented marks rather than bumps.    Just curious to know if anyone has found any information on this from articles on the wreck or contemporary information from when she was built.

Thanks for sharing your build

Allan

Hi Jaager

You are of course absolutely correct  but I doubt many builders will follow this, especially at the smaller scales.  

Allan

Is the hull solid, plank on frame or plank on bulkhead?  Not unlike Jud's method, but for modelers without firearms, if all the planking is up, draw the location of the ports exactly where they should be.  Keep in mind that if multi-decked, the ports on the lower deck are larger than those on the next deck up and so on to the QD and FC.

Once the openings are marked, drill VERY SMALL holes just inside the line.  Then cut with a scalpel or a scalpel and keyhole saw (small ones for Xacto work well)  combination.  Use a plug the right size as suggested by Toni and file or use sanding sticks to open the port to the proper size.  Once done add the sills top and bottom and the linings on the bottom and sides.  There were USUALLY no stops on the top of the port but we have seen a couple contemporary models at RMG and I think Preble Hall that have them on all four surfaces.

Cheers

Allan

Hi Ken,

Many members feel it is a very good idea to cross check things found in many kits, including some that use the wrong name (the jolly boat on the Bounty was rotted and never involved in Lt. Bligh's famous voyage)   A pretty wide discussion on the Bounty launch has been going on in the plans section here at MSW if you have not already seen it.   It was started as a question about the tholes, but has progressed to much more.   I am asking the mods to change the title as it has grown well past just the tholes question and comments.

modelshipworld.com/topic/33217-ships-boats-gap-between-tholes/

Allan

Welcome home Dan!!

Allan

Hi Ken,

Your launch model continues to look very nice, but now the rigging brings up a big question for me.   

Was she cutter rigged as you show or lug rigged?   Lavery states on page 219 in The Arming and Fitting of English Ships of War that launches were usually cutter rigged, but Captain Bligh's log makes reference to rigging shrouds for two masts so maybe she was originally rigged with a single mast then changed at some later point before his famous voyage following the mutiny including being lug rigged.

Allan

Welcome aboard.   As soon as I saw  your replica with the bottles in the background I started humming Show Me the Way to Go Home and now I can't get it out of my head. 

Allan

Benjamin

How wide are the gaps?  If a few thousandths in one or two spots, the idea of sawdust is used by many of us in different ways.  If it is more than this why not remove the errant planks redo them without gaps?   

Allan

On 11/3/2022 at 11:43 AM, Scratchie said:

Most questions I have will be about rigging

First,  a warm welcome to MSW.

On which San Francisco is this kit based ?  There were several but if it is a San Francisco from the 1600's or earlier The Rigging of Ships in the Days of the Spritsail Topmast by Anderson may be a help to you. I found copies on line from a few dollars to over $50.  https://www.ebay.com/itm/353709226806    There may be other books that are more appropriate for the era you are working on, but definitely look for contemporary based information to supplement the kit information.  Looking at the rigging in photos of the model, there are some things that you might want to delve into such as round deadeyes and the presence of belaying pins. 

Allan

In some cases instead of sending crew aloft to furl a sail high on the mast the yard is lowered to the deck to take down the sail.

Lowering the yards past the stays, etc must have been a  challenge in itself and hardly worth the effort.  

Allan

On 11/4/2022 at 1:52 PM, Lieste said:

One detail that seems is often not correctly implemented is the yards position for topsail and topgallants, if the sails are furled or removed.

I agree, but now this has me wondering, when the sails are bent and furled or unbent , what is the purpose of lowering the topsail or topgallant yards?    I realize this was done, but why?  The Elements and Practice of Rigging and Seamanship addresses a lot of things, including such details as the process of unbending a topsail properly but there is no mention of the purpose of raising or lowering the yards that I have been able to find so far.   His description for unbending the topsail on page 336 is detailed and pretty interesting----- FIRST cast off the points of the reefs, keeping fast the earings; then furl the sail, and cast off the rope bands, which make fast round the sail, clear of the gaskets. After this cast off the lee earings, and haul the lee side of the sail into the top; then haul in the weather side. Now unbend the reef tackle pendents, bunt-lines, and bow-lines; bight the sail snugly up together; and send it down by the clue-lines to windward or leeward, as most convenient.

Allan

45 minutes ago, GrandpaPhil said:

I just bought the sail making supplement from Seawatch Books, to learn how to make sails from silk span.

Hi Phillip

You will be very pleased with the results as they will be pretty much to scale, which is as you know from your own experience, impossible with cloth and sewing at scales smaller than about 1:24.  

Allan

As said above, the choice is yours, but

There is no cloth that is to scale at 1:48 or smaller nor a method of sewing that is to scale at these sizes.  Kits such as yours sometime provide sails and if you really want sails, seriously consider setting them aside and making your own out of a non-woven material such as silk span or an ultra high thread count cloth that will at least get closer to scale weave and appearance. 

There are many posts here at MSW, You Tube videos (www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_m_VWzk4w8) and an excellent printed booklet at SeaWatch books by David Antscherl on sail making.

Go to the RMF Collections website and look at the hundreds of contemporary rigged models. The vast majority of these classic rigged models have no sails.

Whether to add or not to add sails -  there is no right or wrong, only what you would like.

Allan

9 hours ago, druxey said:

Do read the planking tutorials on MSW

In addition to the tutorial by David Antscherl, if you have not already done so, check out the You Tube video series on planking by Chuck Passaro.

Allan

Hi Ross

There are a number of posts on belaying lines here at MSW that should be of some help.  The method OllieS describes is indeed a good one for your next model, but do a search here at MSW and you should find a number of posts on other methods that have succeeded.   

16 hours ago, OllieS said:

the OcCre pin diagram and the Anatomy of the Ship diagram are rather different

The AOS series is really good and would serve you well to get a copy.  Not all kits are created equal, so research using contemporary based sources is always a good idea before putting glue anywhere.   For example, the diameter of the handle of the pin should be about 1.25" to 1.5" or in your case if 1:60 about 0.02" (0.6mm)   Are the pins in your kit that size?   If they are larger in diameter that may be why you cannot easily belay the lines. 

Allan

On 10/28/2022 at 5:56 PM, Ed Ku20 said:

what is identified as the Stem in the Rattlesnake instructions/plans

Good for you working on the tapering!!

It is a good idea to cross check a lot of things in some kits just as would be done in a scratch build.  The stem is the part identified in the sketch above.  The assembly of parts forward of the stem is what I believe makes up the knee of the head and is not a part of the stem.  Chock it up to being just a terminology error on the kit maker's part.  

Allan

Hi Allen

I know there are no contemporary drawings of Mayflower (if that is the project you are working on) with the body plan,  but if there are drawings of the bulkheads in the kit you can take a picture and insert a jpg into a drawing program then draw the missing bulkheads.  It would likely not be dead center between the two, but they would be  close, especially if you cut it a little oversized so room to sand it down.    

If you do not have a drawing program, you can still make copies and paper dolls of the existing bulkheads to get something close.  I am sure there is more scientific way, but this is simple and has worked for me in the past.

Allan

7 hours ago, David Lester said:

You can also get internally stopped blocks from Syren, but I don't believe they are available in small enough sizes. Also, they appear to be so beautiful that I didn't have the heart to paint them,

As a big fan on these old schooners this is an interesting point David.   Did the working boats paint the blocks or is this a modern convention?  I see the usefulness of paint to protect the wooden shells but was this actual practice when they were fishing industry vessels rather than modern tour boats?  Inquiring minds......

Allan

7 hours ago, Firedog said:

Since building the dory and pram of the shipwright builders

You sure did chose the best possible beginner models and no doubt will be able to use a lot of what you learned as you move on to more complicated projects.

As you have chosen the Herreshoff 12 1/2 I am guessing you have plans from Mystic or elsewhere and will be doing a scratch build.   Please consider starting a build log as many of us would love to see this vessel come to life.

Welcome to MSW
 

Allan

Further to Marks post, many lines were simply belayed to rails and timberheads prior to pins being used.

A contemporary model at Preble Hall is below as one example

Allan

Hi Peter, it will be fun for us to follow your build

As it is the Bellona class 74 I assume it is the 1760 Thunderer versus the 1783 ship.   What book is it that you show the Zeus figurehead, the AOS or Building a Wooden Fighting Ship?  Looking at the RMG model of the 1760 Thunderer  it looks like a different figure.  They do mention it may be Hercules, not Thunderer (or maybe some other ship altogether) thus a different figurehead.

Allan

11 hours ago, jud said:

Photo in Hong Kong 1961

Coranado seems like a less likely place to see this kind of thing than Hong Kong.   I remember HK in the 60's with the many street food vendors with octopus and other goodies hanging on hooks and covered with flies.  I must admit to trying and enjoying some of these and never did get sick. 

1200 crewmen!!!! WOW.  On our trip that included HK, our C-4 freighter had a crew of 32 plus the two cadets (my roommate and me)  Good times!!!

Allan

On 10/26/2022 at 3:05 PM, martimous said:

Just about done with the first hull planking.

Welcome to MSW Martimous!   

For the second layer of planking study contemporary models on the RMG Collections site and see if this is what the planking in your kit instructs.  If not, you might consider studying the write up by author and member David Antscherl on proper planking (many kits don't get it) in the Articles data base here at MSW as well as the You Tube video on planking by Chuck Passaro.   
Cheers

Allan

30 minutes ago, RossR said:

The Diana I am building is the Spanish Frigate Diana that was built in 1792 not the British ship

 Other than a computer search for more details, you might be relegated to what the kit offers.    Small things like making belaying pins to scale and realistic looking gratings can be kit bashed though.   Looking forward to your build log!

Allan