allanyed

Tom, what size/scale?

Many thanks for the suggestion James. 😀 As this applies to all builds, not just kits, it makes a lot of sense.   It's good to have folks post these kinds of things in multiple forums to capture a larger audience.
Allan

You have chosen a huge project and showing a great start.  One of the nice things about this ship is that you can compare your modern day plans to the contemporary plans and models at the RMG Collections site.         
https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/search/Royal William plans 1719  &  https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/rmgc-object-66183
Regarding the lower wales, notice how it diminished in thickness at the bow so it rests in the rabbet as in the photo of the RMG model below.
Allan

 

BELLO!!!!   Cutting the mortises for the gun port sills as you go and having them aligned perfectly is beyond what us mere mortals can achieve.   For most of us it is best to raise the frames, then mark out and cut the ports.   I am anxious to see if you decide to make them as you go and how these turn out and hopefully we can all say, "see, it CAN be done!"    
Ciao amico
Allan

Many thanks for the suggestion James. 😀 As this applies to all builds, not just kits, it makes a lot of sense.   It's good to have folks post these kinds of things in multiple forums to capture a larger audience.
Allan

He Jeff
Your are not alone.   Not only did I do the same thing, I did it scratch as I could only afford the plans, not the kit.  In the end it came out well enough that I actually sold it for a reasonable price. Stick with it and it will come out fine.  If you do not have it, get a copy of The Anatomy of Nelson's Ships by Longridge as it has a WEALTH of information on building a model of the Victory and will help you immensely.
Allan
 

Hi Guys, 
So I’ve been developing HMS Portland for about two years now and I plan to offer it as a kit, it will be sold in parts or sections so you can build at whatever speed you wish or only purchase what you want and scratch build the rest. The project will
be in 1:48 scale and will be offered mainly in Alaskan yellow cedar and other various woods including boxwood for select parts and I’m leaning towards MDF structure but I will have to see how the initial prototype builds.
As a Winnie builder, I was inspired and blown away by Chucks incredible design work and flawless representation of the Winchelsea, so much that I purchased a laser machine and started designing. My aim is to offer a model as detailed and accurate as possible.
The model is designed to represent the dockyard style model of Portland as depicted in the Joseph Marshal paintings of 1774, as seen below. 
There are enough early drawings of Portland available to accurately represent her as initially designed, these drawings also match up well with the paintings of the contemporary model, she does differ from her closest sister, Bristol but the model could be modified to represent Bristol if desired. 

It will have all decks built and exposed down to the main gun deck showing all frames, guns and fittings.



currently the model is in its final stages of design/development, I will begin assembling the hull and proving the design as I go, I don’t plan to offer parts of the kit until I’m very very far into the build. Currently the sculptures are being finalized with the figurehead of Artemis, the Greek goddess of hunting already being produced, I should be able to post updates on the stern carvings in a couple months.


I am going to try and offer both resin and boxwood sculptures for this project, I haven’t been able to determine the cost of the full set yet but it shouldn’t be outrageous.
 
At 1:48 the model comes in just under 43” long and about 10.5” in beam. So it’s not unmanageable,
unless of course you decide to rig it.



The design prototype shows half the model with exposed frames, as the contemporary model was built, I may offer a version like this but it will be very expensive and tricky to build, it will be a hybrid POF/POB if released. I will likely start a test portion of this alongside the prototype build.
 
Currently I have set up my new laser machine and I’m cutting some parts just for testing purposes, I took some photos next to my Winnie to give an idea of scale. I think the two will look great sitting next to eachother.
 
 

Thanks as always for looking and for the likes and comments
 
The blocks arrived from HiS Model and the ropes from RoS so I was good to go with everything to complete Diana.
The catfalls are rigged although I had move some of the belay points around because I had wrongly rigged the jib boom guy.


The spritsail yard rigging was completed with sheets and clue lines and then I moved on to the boom and gaff. These were completed, as with the rest of the rigging, following Steel, Lees and the AotS as closely as I could.



The only issue I met was with the main yard braces. In all of the references, the belay cleat is sited forward of the sternmost carronade, meaning the running part must somehow pass the gun in order to reach the belay. This doesn’t seem sensible to me. If I have this wrong or their is a better solution, I would be interested to hear.

 
Now I have a lot of tidying up of the lines to do, hanks to make and then some finishing touches like adding stunsail booms, stern lanterns and the remaining ship’s boats.






I now have an enjoyable dilemma of which will be my next ship model? It could be HMS Trial when available or the new version of Speedy or maybe HMS Flirt. A few weeks yet to think about it.
 
David

the spritsails and John Harland
 
James Lees in 'Masting and Rigging English Ships of War' explains nicely the different elements of the bowsprit rigging but doesn't  always indicate what's right and wrong. Additional information such as own research or flawless kit plans are needed.
 
John Harland is the author of 'Seamanship in the age of sail'. Actually I was just looking for some information about how to set spritsail yards and eventually a sail. But then I found in his book a very interesting chapter about spritsails (page 85ff.). A few questions were answered but still more raised. What he writes, especially about the sprit topsail, had me thinking. He states that  - and I hope I understood him correctly:
 
When the flying jib boom was introduced together with the flying jib, immediately the dolphin striker and martingale stay followed to hold the new boom down. However the martingale stay made the setting of the spritsail topsail impossible and the spritsail topsail yard became useless and disappeared. The martingale backstay at first made an almost vertical return to the bowsprit to allow the spritsail to be set. Later the martingale backstay was led directly to the bow, thus preventing also the spritsail to be set and it passed into disuse as well.
 
The proposal of the kit to have dolphin striker and spritsail topsail yard simultaneously seems illogical although John Harland states that this configuration may be seen on contemporary models and even on today's HMS Victory. On the other hand the way the martingale backstay is set up, which initially baffled me, is now explained.
 
So I seemed to have 3 options:
 
- scratch the dolphin striker again and set both spritsail yards (yay - all that work on the 2 replacements for nothing!)
 
-scratch the spritsail topsail and its yard and have a somewhat ambiguous situation with a dolphin striker and no flying jib boom.
 
- add a flying jib boom (yay again!)
 
Then I noticed that just on John Harland's book cover a situation like the second one seems to be depicted. Also, if you had to take in the flying jib boom for some reason, you would leave the dolphin striker in place . So, option two was it.
 
Additionally he stated that near land the spritsail was never set because it hampered the forward vision from the quarterdeck too much.
 
Finally he explains that when sailing by the wind the spritsail yard was triced up also without a sail set and the guys on the lower or weather side were hauled taut to give additional downward pull to the jib boom.
 
Conclusion: I will scratch the spritsail topsail and it's yard and adapt the rigging of the spritsail yard accordingly. The spritsail yard with a furled sail will be triced up by about the same amount as all the yards are braced. I will also add the missing guys to the spritsail yard.
 

In this Thomas Luny painting (found in the web) Bellerophon is depicted with dolphin striker, flying jib boom and without spritsail topsail yard.
 
 

Another Thomas Luny painting (also found in the web) showing a two-decker with similar configuration sailing by the wind and showing the triced up position of the spritsail yard.
 

Many thanks for the suggestion James. 😀 As this applies to all builds, not just kits, it makes a lot of sense.   It's good to have folks post these kinds of things in multiple forums to capture a larger audience.
Allan

You have chosen a huge project and showing a great start.  One of the nice things about this ship is that you can compare your modern day plans to the contemporary plans and models at the RMG Collections site.         
https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/search/Royal William plans 1719  &  https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/rmgc-object-66183
Regarding the lower wales, notice how it diminished in thickness at the bow so it rests in the rabbet as in the photo of the RMG model below.
Allan

 

You have chosen a huge project and showing a great start.  One of the nice things about this ship is that you can compare your modern day plans to the contemporary plans and models at the RMG Collections site.         
https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/search/Royal William plans 1719  &  https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/rmgc-object-66183
Regarding the lower wales, notice how it diminished in thickness at the bow so it rests in the rabbet as in the photo of the RMG model below.
Allan

 

You have chosen a huge project and showing a great start.  One of the nice things about this ship is that you can compare your modern day plans to the contemporary plans and models at the RMG Collections site.         
https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/search/Royal William plans 1719  &  https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/rmgc-object-66183
Regarding the lower wales, notice how it diminished in thickness at the bow so it rests in the rabbet as in the photo of the RMG model below.
Allan

 

Niels, a couple of issues:
 
1. It's not necessary to create a separate post for each photo. You may add multiple photos to a single post.
2. Your photos are not displaying. We don't recommend using third-party image hosting sites. We regularly have problems with such sites when they go out of business or members don't renew their subscriptions. We strongly advise members to upload their photos to the site first and then add them to their posts.

Post Forty-seven
Nearly there!
With ten strakes to go the trickiest part is the sharp bends and twists where the planks abut the stern post.

1292
In this example the plank is wider at the end than the otherwise tapered run.

1340
The planks sometimes take on a serpentine shape.
 
Over the weekend I made a concerted effort to push ahead with the planking and I put in two longish days at the workbench.

1327
The serpentine shape of the planking runs is evident here but I am now happy that there will be no crowding of the planks at the stem.

1333
I have concentrated on the bow planking as this is the most critical area, and I am pleased that there is no excessive sny as the planks follow the round of the bow.
 
Two days later……..

1363

1361
Two strakes left and they will be of pretty uniform shape - I’m relieved to see.

1351

1360
A small satisfaction to be had when both sides match.

1355
My shipyard assistant casts a critical eye over my efforts, is he impressed, hard to tell, but I'm satisfied. 🙂
 
Cheers,
 
B.E.
11/07/2023.
 

Can you post photos of how you made the belaying pins?  These are spectacular in shape and scale.  WELL DONE!!!
Allan

Hi Eck
Sorry for the miscommunication, but when I mentioned contemporary, I meant contemporary to about 1800, not today. I realize the modern definition of contemporary can be different and can be confusing because of its slightly different meanings. In this case I meant the old definition where it  refers to things from the same era as certain other things.  For instance, when Victory  was contemporary to the reign of George III.     
 
Regarding the modern day photos, as of a couple years ago keep in mind that all but about eight of the cannon on Victory are fiberglass or some other material other than metal  so I would not assume anything about those in the photo is correct without corroborating evidence.  They may be, but again, I would love to see information from the 17th through early 19th centuries that explains the rigging.  As the cannon patterns changed a lot and carriage designs changed as well over this 200 year time span perhaps this part of the rigging did as well.
 
For the photo of the USS Constitution as she is not a British ship some would hesitate to consider her as an example for what is found on British ships such as HMS Indefatigable.  I am sure there were similarities in some things and that would be an interesting topic, but as with the Victory, the photo of the Constitution is modern thus not necessarily useful to the late 18th century or early 19th century.  
 
Allan

The video really is interesting and obviously took a lot of work.  But, there are a number of  things in the video that are wrong, so I would not rely on it without finding confirming information elsewhere.  For example the art work for the guns does not show the hooks on the end of the lines.  Also, the outboard trucks look to be the same diameter as the inboard trucks rather than having those closest to the bulwarks substantially larger in diameter.   Regarding the blocks themselves, these are supposed to be 32 pounders on the lower gun deck so they would have carried the double and single block if Caruana is to be believed.  In the end, it does not take away from your workmanship in the least, I was just curious to find specific contemporary information one way or the other.
Allan

Pertsa
Welcome to MSW.    Please post a little intro about yourself in the new members forum here at MSW.   Hope you will start a build log as it will be interesting to see an older kit assembled and how the parts compare with the kits of today.
Allan

All I can say is

Allan

Can you post photos of how you made the belaying pins?  These are spectacular in shape and scale.  WELL DONE!!!
Allan

Can you post photos of how you made the belaying pins?  These are spectacular in shape and scale.  WELL DONE!!!
Allan

Congrats on taking the time to find better material and thanks for sharing your information.!!!   The burlap-like junk found in some kits is so far out of scale it is shameful and have completely ruined many otherwise very nice looking models.   
 
Allan
 

Bill
 I don't recall any book or article that goes into very detailed step by step methods for stropping blocks but it would be nice to learn of one.   Volume IV of TFFM by David Antscherl has some great photos and drawings of single and double stropped blocks that may help you. In general it is a great book for lessons in masting and rigging.    
Allan
 
 

Can you post photos of how you made the belaying pins?  These are spectacular in shape and scale.  WELL DONE!!!
Allan